General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBuckle Up - Recession Is Coming Fast
Last edited Mon Jan 27, 2025, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)
I've been watching the falling dominoes today as a recent large language model (LLM) out of China beat the top of the line OpenAI model was about 1/50th the investment (or, put another way, it cost in a year what OpenAI spends in a week on training). This model, called DeepSeek, was also released open-source, meaning that for a fairly minimal investment, anyone could set up a top of the line AI model, rather than having to use OpenAI's very expensive services.
Last week at Trump's inauguration, he was crowing about $500bn AI Initiative (Stargate) with the CEO and VC Tech Bros prancing around on the stage. In one day, the Chinese managed to show that the emperor has no clothes, has probably doomed openAI, and led to a staggering $600 BILLION dollar loss in market cap for nVidia. From where I sit, Stargate looks like it's dead in the water, and everyone from Elon Musk and Larry Ellison to Sam Altman are now looking at MAJOR losses in their portfolio that I don't think are coming back any time soon.
There is a certain amount of schadenfreude in all of this, but its bitter stuff, because I suspect that you're about to see the collapse of the tech sector stock market over the next few months as major investors and banks, already squeezed by overinvestment and anemic returns, are going to start laying off people left and right in order to free up enough money to keep their MacMansions from getting foreclosed.
In tech, we've been in a soft recession for a while now - here in Seattle, even before this debacle, Microsoft just announced another 6,000 layoffs, and other companies looked to be following suit. However, after today, I anticipate something I've been worried about for awhile, as margin calls hits investors in companies outside of tech that were nonetheless heavily vested in tech stocks. I've been more or less unemployed outside of writing a tech newsletter for a while now, and I think things are only going to get worse.
I'm not a financial person, just a tech analyst, but I would recommend that staying as liquid as possible right now is likely to be a real good idea, unless you have very deep pockets. The banks were selling off $3 Bn in X (nee Twitter) debt in the last few days, and I know that most of those same banks are also holding a lot of highly leveraged paper from other "HOT" tech bro pie in the sky investments, so contagion is a very real possibility.

elleng
(141,107 posts)kind of
msongs
(72,652 posts)dweller
(27,328 posts)Were selling off 3Bn in X debt , not stock .. . Or is it the same thing ?
✌🏻
ProfessorGAC
(74,802 posts)There is no stock. The company is now private.
I'm of 2 minds on this.
Just like when banks sell off mortgages, they generate liquidity by selling to people that think that debt is safe, low yield paper. That's how the community bank of which I was a board member did it.
In the case of banks with enough liquidity to have a higher risk tolerance, therefore higher returns, the sell-off is to increase cash flow for those better investments.
Unless they're selling at a discount to just unload, I'm not seeing a good reason why they would sell or why anybody would buy up the debt if there was increasing risk of default.
I guess I'm questioning whether that debt sale is a problem or just cash flow juggling.
Blue Full Moon
(2,930 posts)Metaphorical
(2,528 posts)It was debt. I'd heard stock initially, but received updated information.
dweller
(27,328 posts)Doesnt pay his debts
✌🏻
roamer65
(37,805 posts)If Rump goes through with the tariffs, that is exactly where we will be.
1930 redux.
GreatGazoo
(4,218 posts)All that hardware that the Mag7 bought -- all those Nvidia H100s will get used. DeepSeek is not running on a TRS80 with a cassette deck next to it (remember those?).
DeepSeek is running on Nvidia chips, allegedly on H800s but possibly on "50,000" (!) H100s, aka "the GPUs that China isn't supposed to have." Whether the are using H100s or H800s, this accelerates the AI race and lowers barriers to wide adoption of AI on Nvidia GPUs. Hundreds of people around the world are trying to duplicate DeepSeek right now so we will soon now which GPUs fit with the results.
This is a Sputnik moment for US AI and the likely result will be MORE investment as the race heats up.
Initech
(106,540 posts)Jensen Huang is the CEO of NVIDIA. Elon Musk is NVIDIA's biggest customer. He buys NVIDIA GPUS in bulk on the dime. His Grok gigafactory in Austin has like 100,000 of them. This is insane. What are they doing there?
SunSeeker
(56,934 posts)I can feel the disaster coming. Its like watching the sea pull back before the tsunami hits.
aggiesal
(10,390 posts)Xolodno
(7,204 posts)Tech companies laying off, prices still high, wages not adjusting as quickly, credit card debt going up, etc. Eventually something is going to break. Plus it doesn't help the guy in the Oval Office is drunk on power and killing things off that help people. He'll be reversing many of his EO's soon enough, but by that time, it will be too late and the midterms will decimate him. Just spend his last two years raging.