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bigtree

(91,698 posts)
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 05:53 PM Friday

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (bigtree) on Fri Mar 14, 2025, 10:13 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) bigtree Friday OP
You feel better that trump will now have more unchallengable power to mess with your SS???? Think. Again. Friday #1
You don't think it's a good thing that Chuck has managed to secure Social Security for our time? Lancero Friday #3
Schumer has not done that... Think. Again. Friday #5
ONE Democratic vote for the CR makes the party "enablers and collaborators"? OilemFirchen Friday #17
And 10 for cloture. Think. Again. Friday #18
No one gives a shit about that. OilemFirchen Friday #21
It will definitely be used against Dems. Think. Again. Friday #22
Nope. OilemFirchen Friday #30
Members of our Party have voted with the repubs. Think. Again. Friday #34
2, counting Angus King, who caucuses with us. Shaheen was the other Yes on the actual bill, and she is retiring so Celerity Friday #24
King is not a member of the Democratic Party. OilemFirchen Friday #26
He caucuses with us (which I said). Without King/Sanders caucusing with us, we wouldn' have had control of the Senate Celerity Friday #31
And what would have happened if the government shut down? mcar Friday #20
It would not have stopped them, it would have stopped the Democratic Party... Think. Again. Friday #33
I think the joke went over your head... regnaD kciN Friday #27
It sounds like they feel better that dump will have less power than if a shutdown happened. Eko Friday #4
He will not have less power, the CR grants him power that even the Constitution reserved for Congress. Think. Again. Friday #6
And a shutdown will allow dump to decide what is essential and non-essential. Eko Friday #8
Which he could do anytime he wants to with an emergency declaration. Think. Again. Friday #10
An emergency declaration can let him shut down federal angencies? Eko Friday #11
Doesn't matter, he now has the full authority to do that through the CR, backed by Democratic Party votes. Think. Again. Friday #12
What you said is not true. Eko Friday #13
Ha! Yeah, get back to me when the agencies start closing down. Think. Again. Friday #15
Why dont you just show me where the CR allows dump to close down agencies? Eko Friday #16
By transferring Congress's Constitutional control of spending to trump, he can defund any agency he wants to. Think. Again. Friday #23
Here is where the CR says funds to SS continue. Eko Friday #25
Starting on page 14, line 4 Think. Again. Friday #32
Nice job! Eko Friday #35
Yes, over-riding the Congressional authority over spending is why the CR is considered unconstitutional. Think. Again. Friday #36
I 100% agree. Eko Friday #37
Without it's "discretionary" spending, the agency will not last long.... Think. Again. Friday #38
Once again I 100% agree. Eko Friday #39
Unfortunately, the option of a 30 day CR developed by the House was ignored by schumer, and so here we are. Think. Again. Friday #40
Yup. Eko Friday #41
The courts would side with trump per the CR unless and until the CR is successfully challenged first. Think. Again. Friday #42
I agree. Eko Friday #43
always grateful for the replies that show up as numbers instead of posts bigtree Friday #2
#7 bigtree Friday #9
The largest bank in NY city gab13by13 Friday #7
If the government shuts down, much of it might not reopen. nt Comrade Citizen Friday #14
Probably the same parts of it that trump will close with the power of the CR. Think. Again. Friday #19
The House was working on a 30 day CR gab13by13 Friday #29
Bahahahahahahaha! BannonsLiver Friday #28

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
1. You feel better that trump will now have more unchallengable power to mess with your SS????
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 05:57 PM
Friday

That's weird.

Lancero

(3,142 posts)
3. You don't think it's a good thing that Chuck has managed to secure Social Security for our time?
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:04 PM
Friday

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
5. Schumer has not done that...
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:39 PM
Friday

...the CR will pass and will give the executive branch unconstitutional power which they will use to mess with SS.

What schumer has done with the cloture vote, is put the Democratic Party in the position of enablers and collaborators on the CR.

OilemFirchen

(7,227 posts)
17. ONE Democratic vote for the CR makes the party "enablers and collaborators"?
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:17 PM
Friday

That's hilarious.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
18. And 10 for cloture.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:20 PM
Friday

OilemFirchen

(7,227 posts)
21. No one gives a shit about that.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:27 PM
Friday

If this CR negatively disrupts the lives of citizens, the Republicans will be held solely accountable. It really is as simple as that.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
22. It will definitely be used against Dems.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:30 PM
Friday

OilemFirchen

(7,227 posts)
30. Nope.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:56 PM
Friday

The Republicans control the government. The general populace, if they understand anything, understand that. They don't know, nor give a whit about cloture or CRs. They will hold the party in power accountable and, accordingly, give the Democrats a pass.

It really is that simple.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
34. Members of our Party have voted with the repubs.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 08:28 PM
Friday

Celerity

(48,622 posts)
24. 2, counting Angus King, who caucuses with us. Shaheen was the other Yes on the actual bill, and she is retiring so
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:35 PM
Friday

has little skin in the game now.

OilemFirchen

(7,227 posts)
26. King is not a member of the Democratic Party.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:47 PM
Friday

Your response is irrelevant.

Celerity

(48,622 posts)
31. He caucuses with us (which I said). Without King/Sanders caucusing with us, we wouldn' have had control of the Senate
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 08:11 PM
Friday

under Biden.

King and Sanders are part of the Democratic Senatorial Caucus, which is and was very relevant.

mcar

(44,182 posts)
20. And what would have happened if the government shut down?
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:25 PM
Friday

I agree with you that FOTUS and emperor Musk are going to do what they will do.

But...

Had the government shut down, how would that have stopped them from doing this?

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
33. It would not have stopped them, it would have stopped the Democratic Party...
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 08:26 PM
Friday

...from being complicit.

regnaD kciN

(26,842 posts)
27. I think the joke went over your head...
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:50 PM
Friday

It was based on Neville Chamberlain's declaration of "peace in our time" after caving to Hitler over Czechoslovakia.

Eko

(9,016 posts)
4. It sounds like they feel better that dump will have less power than if a shutdown happened.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:15 PM
Friday

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
6. He will not have less power, the CR grants him power that even the Constitution reserved for Congress.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:40 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
8. And a shutdown will allow dump to decide what is essential and non-essential.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:44 PM
Friday

And shut down entire federal agencies and not reopen them if he wants to.
Added, show me what law will make dump keep the SS admin open. The directions on how to do a shutdown is from an EO, and dump can change that to how he wants to.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
10. Which he could do anytime he wants to with an emergency declaration.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:48 PM
Friday

This cloture vote and CR just protects him from any legal challenges, even better for him.

Eko

(9,016 posts)
11. An emergency declaration can let him shut down federal angencies?
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:49 PM
Friday

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
12. Doesn't matter, he now has the full authority to do that through the CR, backed by Democratic Party votes.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:52 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
13. What you said is not true.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:56 PM
Friday

A emergency declaration wont let him shut down federal agencies. Also, the CR wont let him do that either.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/guide-emergency-powers-and-their-use
I'm sorry but you are incorrect on both counts.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
15. Ha! Yeah, get back to me when the agencies start closing down.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:05 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
16. Why dont you just show me where the CR allows dump to close down agencies?
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:09 PM
Friday

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
23. By transferring Congress's Constitutional control of spending to trump, he can defund any agency he wants to.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:32 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
25. Here is where the CR says funds to SS continue.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:47 PM
Friday

5) ‘‘Social Security Administration—Supple-17
mental Security Income Program’’, for benefit pay-18
ments under title XVI of the Social Security Act,19
$22,100,000,000, to remain available until ex-20
pended.
Page 11
https://www.congress.gov/119/bills/hr1968/BILLS-119hr1968ih.pdf
Here is the link for the bill, can you show me where it lets dump do what you said about SS?

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
32. Starting on page 14, line 4
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 08:24 PM
Friday

...if a sequestration is ordered by the president... the spending expenditure, or operating plan required by this section shall reflect such sequestration.

The departments and agencies to which this section applies are as follows:

(page 15, line 25) The Social Scurity Administration

(Sorry it took so long, I couldn't copy/paste from the live pdf on my tablet)

Eko

(9,016 posts)
35. Nice job!
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:02 PM
Friday

Great work reading through that, it wasn't easy.
But,

Social Security spending is considered mandatory spending, not discretionary spending, meaning it's funded by permanent appropriations and not subject to annual congressional approval like discretionary spending.


Page 13 makes it clear this is about discretionary spending.

SEC . 1112. With respect to any discretionary account4
for which advance appropriations were provided for fiscal5
year 2025 or 2026 in an appropriations Act for fiscal year6
2024, in addition to amounts otherwise made available by7
this division, advance appropriations are provided in the8
same amount for fiscal year 2026 or 2027, respectively,9
with a comparable period of availability.

And.
The SSA's administrative costs, including salaries and benefits for federal employees and state employees at disability determination services, are funded through discretionary spending, which requires annual congressional approval.


So dump could indeed cut off the pay of SS employees but he cant shut it down.

If Social Security loses discretionary spending, the Social Security Administration (SSA) would face significant challenges in maintaining its current level of service, potentially leading to hiring freezes, furloughs, field office closures, limited service hours, and delays in IT modernization, all of which could negatively impact beneficiaries


While continued stoppage of the employees pay would most likely stop services down the road dump taking away the discretionary amount still leaves the SS admin open. Closing it down would be immediate. In the meantime while the discretionary part is taken away SS still works yet at a decreased rate and all hell would break out in the US. So, no , what he can do with the CR is way different that in a shutdown. But I have to give you major props for doing all that work. Having this kind of discussion with someone willing to do the work it entails is a sheer delight and helps me learn a lot of things and I 100% applaud you for doing so.
Thanks and Keep in keeponing.
Eko.



Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
36. Yes, over-riding the Congressional authority over spending is why the CR is considered unconstitutional.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:13 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
37. I 100% agree.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:21 PM
Friday

But this is about what would be worse for SS, the CR or a shutdown. Since the shutdown is governed by an executive order it can be changed by executive order and I dont think dump would make any good changes. He could say that he has the power to shut down SS entirely and there is no law or case law saying he cant do that. If he ordered it shut down then it would be shut down and it would go to the courts of which have way less resources because they are shut down as well and it would take time to get all the way to the Supreme Court. Meantime SS is completely shut down instead of just loosing its discretionary spending which will leave it open for a while.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
38. Without it's "discretionary" spending, the agency will not last long....
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:40 PM
Friday

....(the automated deposit system can't run if the electricity bill isn't paid, or there are no IT employees to keep it running, or something) and now that trump is legally protected by the CR, the CR itself would have to be court-challenged before trump's defunding of the agency could be court-challenged.

Social Security's days are now numbered, unless trump gets nervous about how even his magats will react to his plans for it.

Eko

(9,016 posts)
39. Once again I 100% agree.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:46 PM
Friday

But the shut down would be immediate and not drawn out like the CR would be. Does it make a huge difference? I think so cause it would give the American people time to mobilize and hopefully stop it. While they are two different things in the long run it might not make a difference, unless you are on SS like the original poster was then it makes a huge one.
Once again thanks!!
Eko.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
40. Unfortunately, the option of a 30 day CR developed by the House was ignored by schumer, and so here we are.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:49 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
41. Yup.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 09:57 PM
Friday

But I think if dump uses the CR to start de-funding SS then all hell will break loose giving people time to fight back including the courts. Closing it is just closing it.

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
42. The courts would side with trump per the CR unless and until the CR is successfully challenged first.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 10:05 PM
Friday

Eko

(9,016 posts)
43. I agree.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 10:11 PM
Friday

bigtree

(91,698 posts)
2. always grateful for the replies that show up as numbers instead of posts
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 05:59 PM
Friday

...thanks y'all

Lol, welcome #2! Thanks for looking in.

bigtree

(91,698 posts)
9. #7
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:47 PM
Friday

...looking at you, number.

gab13by13

(27,081 posts)
7. The largest bank in NY city
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:41 PM
Friday

Thought its FEMA deposit was safe, it wasn’t.

Your bank account isn’t safe either.

Am going to bookmark your thread for later.

Comrade Citizen

(218 posts)
14. If the government shuts down, much of it might not reopen. nt
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 06:57 PM
Friday

Think. Again.

(21,843 posts)
19. Probably the same parts of it that trump will close with the power of the CR.
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:22 PM
Friday

gab13by13

(27,081 posts)
29. The House was working on a 30 day CR
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:54 PM
Friday

And Schumer kneecapped them.

Let me know when it’s bad enough to fight back.

BannonsLiver

(18,976 posts)
28. Bahahahahahahaha!
Fri Mar 14, 2025, 07:53 PM
Friday

Thanks for the hearty, big belly laugh. Much needed today!

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