General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNYT: I Study Measles. I'm Terrified We're Headed for an Epidemic.
April 2, 2025, 5:04 a.m. ET
By Michael Mina
Dr. Mina is an epidemiologist and immunologist who has studied measles.
We used to think of measles outbreaks in the United States as isolated events: short-lived and confined to close-knit communities with low vaccination rates. A flare here, a bubble there. But as those bubbles grow and converge, the United States could be at risk for tens of thousands of cases.
Measles was declared eliminated in this country in 2000. That didnt mean the virus disappeared. It meant we stopped it from spreading freely. It was a hard-won public health triumph made possible by decades of vaccination. But that protection is now unraveling.
Vaccine skepticism has become increasingly mainstream, amplified by pandemic-era backlash, a torrent of online misinformation and support from the new health and human services secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who has been at the center of vaccine misinformation for over a decade. A growing outbreak in Texas, and cases in over a dozen states, shows how fragile our defenses have become.
Measles is among the most contagious viruses known. A single case can cause dozens more in places where people are unvaccinated. Infants too young for vaccination, immune-compromised people and the elderly are all at risk. Measles isnt just a fever and rash. It can cause pneumonia, brain inflammation, permanent disability and death. The virus can go dormant in the body only to re-emerge a decade or so after infection and cause rapid and fatal brain tissue deterioration.
It also has a more insidious legacy, one I helped discover. In 2015, I led a team that found that measles can erase the immune systems protective memory of prior infections. This immune amnesia, as its called, leaves people vulnerable to viruses and bacteria they were once protected against. In a follow-up study in 2019, we found measles can wipe out up to 70 percent of an individuals protective immune memory.
/snip

Meowmee
(8,200 posts)Get your mmr booster and boosters for all childhood vaccines. I did already.
BonnieJW
(2,838 posts)All those illnesses as a kid, you can get them again?
SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)earlier in life you should be protected. If you're unsure of your level of immunity, a simple antibody test can be performed by any Healthcare laboratory to see if you're still protected.
I hope that helps.
Wednesdays
(20,448 posts)Turns out I was okay for measles and rubella, but deficient for mumps. So I'll be getting the MMR booster anyway.
SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)It might come to outliving the bastards to get our country back.
Prof. Toru Tanaka
(2,527 posts)When I see my GP for my next A1C checkup, I will be sure to ask about this.
I still mask when I am out in public places.
SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)It just makes sense.
phylny
(8,719 posts)when they are not really sure if the vaccination that I received was enough, I just had my titers tested for measles, mumps, and rubella. I did have the mumps with my brother, and although he had the measles, that was before I was born. I also recall being vaccinated against rubella or German measles, when I was a preteen. It turns out that all of my immunity is extremely strong. I was born in 1958.
SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)Our health is our greatest asset. WE'LL OUTLIVE THE BASTARDS! 😉
Meowmee
(8,200 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 2, 2025, 08:46 PM - Edit history (4)
Generally, if you have measles as a child that will give you life long immunity to it. However in the case of measles it damages your overall immunity and causes something called immune amnesia so, you are more susceptible to other infectious diseases and even other diseases in general, sometimes for many years after. If you read the statistics/articles I posted you will see that measles was and can be deadly and cause a lot of damage and it was doing that before the vaccine was developed. And still is in underdeveloped areas countries which don't have good access or high vaccination levels.
Some viruses you can get twice, I had chicken pox twice as a child. So, nothing is 100%. The thing that protects people and especially children in the case of measles and other viruses/bacteria etc. is vaccination of a large portion of the population who are able to be vaccinated. Also viruses can have different strains. You could have immunity to one and not to others. For instance you could have immunity to one strain of polio if you had it but not to others. The vaccine provides immunity to all 3 types of paralytic polio.
https://www.who.int/health-topics/poliomyelitis#tab=tab_1
You could not develop immunity properly to a virus etc. also even though you had exposure or became ill and become infected again. People's immune systems can work differently, not everyone develops the same immunity. For instance it was discovered with covid that some people who were exposed and who were ill didn't develop antibodies or didn't have them detected but they had t and b cell immunity. Covid is one of those viruses, like flu viruses, that mutates frequently and unfortunately needs many boosters because having it once will not give long term immunity. Hopefully a vaccine will be developed that will give long term immunity. At this point boosters are recommend every 6 months especially for those who are high risk.
You can be infected with wooping cough / pertussis(a bacteria) more than once. So if there is an outbreak it is recommended everyone susceptible and at risk, children and elderly should be boostered if they haven't been. The tdap is recommended every 10 years anyway, it also protects against tetanus. We have had wooping cough outbreaks in my area several times over the past few years including this year. It's important to understand that these and other outbreaks are due to non vaccination.
Rabies, maybe the deadliest virus known, also requires more than one vaccination- even if you are vaccinated as a protection for whatever reason, if you have an exposure you still need booster shots and other treatments to prevent it. There is also the probability that some people become exposed to viruses, fight it off and never have symptoms and develop antibodies and immunity. There was a study in Peru which determined some people living in an area with bats/caves who had had possible exposures but who were never vaccinated had rabies antibodies. Rabies depends on again the strain and the severity of the exposure, but it is nearly 100% fatal once cns symptoms begin. There are only 7 people world wide who are thought to have survived it once they started having cns symptoms.
Many viruses and bacterial infections have been eradicated or pretty much controlled due to vaccination, but if enough people stop getting vaccinated you can have outbreaks/epidemics, and it's also possible to be infected again if you are immune compromised and it can happen sometimes anyway, nothing is 100%. . For IPV /Polio vaccine, the recommendation in my state is if your polio vaccine was more than 10 years ago and you could be exposed you should be revaccinated, (if you have had the full series as a child then you only need one shot). Several counties in my state have detected polio virus in the water. So, with everything going on I decided to be boostered for that as well as mmr, and tdap.
Viruses/bacteria don't go away, many have been active for millions of years and they evolve. It's a matter of keeping them at bay with vaccination to protect people. In many cases vaccination has eradicated deadly viruses/diseases and now with this insanity that is all going to be destroyed.
I am going to say this here: Can you get measles or another such virus again if you had it or were vaccinated. It is unlikely but it is not impossible. You could be reinfected for whatever reasons. So the smart thing to do is to get boosters when outbreaks occur, and vaccination levels are low if it has been many years since your vaccine or infection. Actually I did it in advance for polio since I don't want to ever get polio. There is no current outbreak here etc. but levels were detected and it was recommended to booster. I had to go to my doctor to get it because the pharmacy wouldn't do that one. Part of the reason to get boosted now is so that you do it when the vaccines are available, not when their is an epidemic and there aren't enough vaccines to go around etc. This will be even more important now with the attack on the healthcare system, vaccination, science and research. We don't know what will happen.
* I wanted to add something about testing antibody levels since people mentioned that. I personally do not always trust that as a sign of good immunity. For one several dvm have told me high antibody levels does not always = good immunity. For my kitties. However cats and dogs are over vaccinated and the schedule has changed a lot except for rabies which is required yearly or you can opt for the 3 year one which is safer now. Here is an article on antibody testing and covid immunity...
What to know about antibody tests in a post-vaccine world
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/antibody-tests-post-vaccine-world/story?id=78976646#:~:text=Early%20reports%20suggested%20that%20people%20who%20tested,person%20is%20immune%20to%20contracting%20the%20virus.
Antibody tests for viruses can only confirm that you were either exposed and or vaccinated. It doesn't tell you what your actual immunity may be because that relies on other things besides antibody levels and how severe your first infection was if you were infected.
Vaccines also aren't 100%- you can have breakthrough infections, not just for covid, even if vaccinated or previously infected. However being vaccinated is always better, and you will have a much less severe infection in most cases.
So, I prefer to be boosted instead of testing antibody levels if it has been many years since my vaccine. It is also a lot cheaper and easier. I am high risk for pretty much everything, so I want as much protection as possible. I prefer the minimal risk of any vaccine to the high risk of serious contagious infections which can maim and kill me and other people. I have found numerous times in my life in many situations that when people say that can't ever happen etc. It often does sadly. Murphy's law etc. 😁
SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)Thank you!
Ms. Toad
(36,460 posts)Hugin
(35,959 posts)Is that the point of letting the measles spread? To go back and say, Look, see Vaccination doesnt work.
Meowmee
(8,200 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 2, 2025, 08:50 AM - Edit history (3)
The exact opposite of what research has shown to be true. Measles itself is also dangerous and deadly. It is one of the most highly contagious and easily transmitted viruses as well. It has a100% infectivity rate for unvaccinated people. Having measles and surviving will usually give you long term immunity to measles but it will damage your immunity to many other diseases and it is deadly in an unvaccinated population and in poorer, crowded areas especially. With children under 5 being the most susceptible. Having a severe case of the virus also opens you to many other serious complications which can kill you as well.
Here is a history before the vaccine:
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html#:~:text=Among%20reported%20measles%20cases%20each%20year%2C%20an,1%2C000%20suffered%20encephalitis%20(swelling%20of%20the%20brain)
Francis Home, a Scottish physician, demonstrated in 1757 that measles is caused by an infectious agent in the blood of patients.
In 1912, measles became a nationally notifiable disease in the United States, requiring U.S. healthcare providers and laboratories to report all diagnosed cases. In the first decade of reporting, an average of 6,000 measles-related deaths were reported each year.
A vaccine became available in 1963. In the decade before, nearly all children got measles by the time they were 15 years old. It is estimated 3 to 4 million people in the United States were infected each year. Among reported measles cases each year, an estimated:
400 to 500 people died
48,000 were hospitalized
1,000 suffered encephalitis (swelling of the brain)
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/measles-one-deadliest-and-most-contagious-infectious-diseases-and-one-most-easily
You dont count your children until the measles has passed. Dr. Samuel Katz, one of the pioneers of the first measles vaccine in the late 1950s to early 1960s, regularly heard this tragic statement from parents in countries where the measles vaccine was not yet available, because they were so accustomed to losing their children to measles.
Deadliness of measles:
Before the introduction of measles vaccine in 1963 and widespread vaccination, major epidemics occurred approximately every two to three years and caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year.
An estimated 107 500 people died from measles in 2023 mostly children under the age of five years, despite the availability of a safe and cost-effective vaccine.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles#:~:text=Before%20the%20introduction%20of%20measles,500%20in%202022%20(1).
Earlier history & Mortality
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0755498222000422
Before the introduction of the vaccine in 1963, it was estimated that there were 30 million cases of measles each year, resulting in approximately 2 million deaths annually worldwide.
lastlib
(25,629 posts)You might be on to something there. I couldn't put it past Little Bobby to have that as part of his plan. And now he has Eloon and the Crime Minister to enable him. We are in for some terrifying times if we don't get our act together and overthrow this regime and crush its minions.
travelingthrulife
(1,945 posts)wnylib
(25,211 posts)When I was a child, back in the dark ages before vaccines for measles, chicken pox, etc., parents wanted their kids to get infected at a young age, around 5 years old, for a couple reasons. One was that some "childhood" diseases could affect fertility in people infected during their teens and as adults. Another reason was the effect of measles, particularly rubella, on the fetus if a woman got infected while pregnant. Kids who had a sibling or close friend who had measles were kept away from kids whose mothers were pregnant, unless the woman knew for certain that she had had rubella as a child and was immune.
BoRaGard
(4,721 posts)
bucolic_frolic
(49,509 posts)On my radar for action in the month of April.
wordstroken
(928 posts):
Swede
(35,815 posts)We're on a road to nowhere, and we're getting there fast.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143431611
Johnny2X2X
(22,621 posts)He was at 4 airports. This is about to get big.
And while the Measles isn't very deadly, it's still a horrible virus that leaves people scarred and facing long term health consequences.
1 in 5 people who get Measles in the US will be hospitalized.
twodogsbarking
(13,141 posts)SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)will be springing up all over, like daffodils in the spring!
orangecrush
(23,962 posts)I wish stupid could be quarantined.
70sEraVet
(4,416 posts)Giving America Measles Again!
mgardener
(1,999 posts)Start making the rounds too.
I am old enough to remember babies horribly affected by German measles.
https://www.cdc.gov/rubella/pregnancy/index.html
Midnight Writer
(23,612 posts)When the epidemic, pandemic, whatever, hits us, we already know the Republicans will blame Democrats. Trump will post it, Elon will advertise it, every Republican commentator will repeat it over and over.
Why aren't we getting out in front of this? Why aren't we all over the media telling people ahead of time what is likely to happen and placing the blame squarely on RFK, Jr., his anti-vax movement, Trump/Musk policies, and the whole damn Republican Party?
When the Trump Administration has a scandal or a failure, they deny, they distract, they play it out and it goes away.
It is past time for Democrats to make some noise, make some trouble, and don't let these scandals fade away.
SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)We're talking about MAGAts here. They aren't going to listen to that librul properganza!
It might induce a few remaining sane people to action, so I guess it wouldn't hurt.
progressoid
(51,185 posts)Seriously. That's what one of my relatives thinks.
tanyev
(45,918 posts)
hatrack
(62,123 posts)Kind of like the one produced by the planet Earth, which surrounds us at all times.
Except the ones produced by electric motors, cell phones, etc., are much, much smaller . . . .
tanyev
(45,918 posts)
progressoid
(51,185 posts)As I noted up-thread, all of us were sent a long "educational" email in an attempt to free us from the oppression of wireless radiation.
Attached to the email was a 12 page pdf, complete with links to YouTube videos that they sent to their kids' school board so they could make changes to the school.
My Dad was mildly amused by the email. Thankfully, we don't see this relative very often. I'm getting too old to deal with that nonsense.
progressoid
(51,185 posts)Luckily for me and my close relatives, we were sent a long "educational" email in an attempt to free us from the oppression of wireless radiation.
Attached to the email was a 12 page pdf, complete with links to YouTube videos that they sent to their kids' school board so they could make changes to the school.
I assume she has sent these warnings to other people as well. Hell, she might be handing out pamphlets out on the street to strangers.
Bernardo de La Paz
(53,869 posts)I wonder if there is a way by blood analysis to determine if someone has measles antibodies but not from the vaccine. Might not be possible because after all the vaccine is for stimulating the immune system too.
Because measles can affect the brain visibly (encephalitis) and less visibly (sub-symptomatic encephalitis), I wonder if those with visible or invisible brain effects might be more stupid and hence more prone to becoming RepubliCONNED.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(27,641 posts)test to see if someone is immune, whether from having the disease or from being vaccinated. Not sure if the testing can tell which way the person is immune, from vaccine or from disease.
LisaL
(47,157 posts)immuno compromised) by vaccinating or getting a booster.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(27,641 posts)by Adam Radner.
The incubation period is exactly fourteen days. And people are most contagious before they break out in spots. And once the measles spots appear, they are no longer contagious. Those two facts explain a lot about its spread.
I'm old, as in trombones years old, so I had all of what we considered standard childhood diseases, measles, mumps, chicken pox. I always thought of them as quite benign, mainly because everyone got all those back then, and I never knew of anyone having serious side effects, let alone dying.
Measles could be totally eradicated on this planet as was smallpox. But not if people refuse vaccines and believe stupid stuff.
58Sunliner
(5,538 posts)SpankMe
(3,425 posts)AllaN01Bear
(24,516 posts)Emile
(33,754 posts)SergeStorms
(19,538 posts)It does not conform to MAGAt ideology.
Emile
(33,754 posts)JT45242
(3,222 posts)Just wait until this measles outbreak triggers mega covid and polio outbreaks.
FAFO ...every kid who dies or is maimed in any way should have parents charged with assault or first degree manslaughter.
Danascot
(4,997 posts)until you consider that women in Texas who have a miscarriage can be charged with murder.
Irish_Dem
(67,176 posts)Epidemics. Herd immunity.
Cull the herd of the weak.
Sanity Claws
(22,155 posts)He is getting it through Trump and his lackeys
Irish_Dem
(67,176 posts)Without firing a shot.
ananda
(31,427 posts)Anything associated with "white" is dogma.
Botany
(73,697 posts)and the republicans, right wing media, Christo Fascist Evangelicals, and millions of mouth
breathing proud to be dumb asses are willing participants to this nightmare.
* Putin wants Americans to get sick, die, and fight with each other over proven science.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-03355-0
Btw Helen Keller went deaf and blind as a result of measles or another childhood disease
that is easily taken care of via vaccines. Russia is at war on Americans and have installed
the current POTUS.
moniss
(6,875 posts)Kennedy. Amazing how people caught him in his outrageous lies and yet he was still confirmed. Also if you look at the personal history of him he fits in the mold of Crumb The 1st, Vance etc. Terrible conduct.
Linda ladeewolf
(814 posts)At least four of them to preventable diseases. Its so stupid.
malthaussen
(18,054 posts)Not getting out of that one.
-- Mal
VGNonly
(8,009 posts)Had Measles, German Measles, Chicken Pox, Scarlet Fever twice. I never had mumps. For what's it's worth, no covid.
Tickle
(3,791 posts)The people getting measles are the unvaccinated. P s. Repubs do get those vaccines. 😂
Response to Dennis Donovan (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Initech
(104,396 posts)
Tickle
(3,791 posts)vaccinated, it won't be much of an epidemic.