We can't say right now.
I am kinclined toth ink that it was the other way.

Epstein bragged about being Trump's closest friend.

I think they were partners.

...from August 2016 detailing Melania's introduction.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/fashion/donald-trump-melania-modeling-agent-paolo-zampolli-daily-mail.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Xk8.uOAo.P7hBH4qw9Xpn&smid=url-share

And describes this:

...women and girls for labor as models -- underpaid, coached to lie to customs, charged exorbitant rent for deplorable conditions. It is not much of a jump from that to feeding some into Epstein's orbit.

Trump Model Management opened in 1999 and closed in 2017. AI summary about closure:

Voices within MAGA who are refusing to tow the 47 regime line on the Epstein files are creating conditions that enable information unrelated to the Epstein story that the MAGA cult has been hellbent on denying to actually get absorbed. I am beginning to have a spark of hope that the Epstein "rift" may be kicking off a snowball effect that will break the MAGA cult spell in ways that go far beyond the Epstein split.

I think there are people in the cult who have been silencing the nagging voices of doubt about the 47 regime because they have invested too many years of their lives, and too much of their identity, in their status as loyal "members." As a member of the cult, seeing other cult members "stepping out of line" makes it possible for a person to let those doubts really gain a foothold.

I also think the protests happening everywhere are chipping away. There are areas where people are part of the cult because they believe "everyone" in their orbit is MAGA. It's normalized. Whatever doubts they may have, we are all social creatures who fear ostracization. Gatherings of 47 opponents in red counties is reported on the local news. Clearly, not "everyone" is on board. And so there are more cracks.

If the spell is breaking for some, I think the best thing we can do is extend a little grace. Here's some food for thought on understanding the cult and some closing advice from Jayne Converse in this short 5 min video:

it was already in pretty short supply. but we need to find it.

Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2025, 09:47 PM - Edit history (2)

I have to constantly remind myself that leaving space for people to be wrong also leaves space for them to evolve. No forgiveness in advance mind you. When you are under attack, you have no choice but to do everything you are able to turn back the attack. But self-defense doesn't necessitate the sort of shaming that pushes people further into their crazy corner.

I find Braver Angels (BA) events to be helpful. The "reds" that attend events are a self-selected group that is interested in taking a shot at dialog with "blues," so it doesn't provide much practice in skills needed to have a genuine dialog with someone who is deeply lost in the cult-think, but it does help me soften the edges of my anger at those lost individuals.

Here are a few upcoming events from the latest BA newsletter:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220489909

I find that it is nearly impossible for me to find compassion for "them" in the vacuum of my own head and information bubble. I can only begin to imagine connecting as human beings with "hard core" MAGA folk through actual interactions with folk that aren't so hard core -- interactions that are driven by genuine curiosity, not "gotcha" flinging of conclusions back and forth. I find the motivation to make the attempts in an understanding that doing so is a very important part of the work of redeeming our national soul.

Sarah McBride (1st trans U.S. Congressperson) also discussed our need to extend a little grace in an interview shortly after she was sworn in.

Plus Epstein would pay him cash and give him access to anything he wanted sexually
if he supplied girls to the child sex ring.

It would have been a no brainer for Trump.

women and girls. More in this post above:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220497657#post4

I had forgotten Trump had a ‘modeling agency’ - like Casablanca’s.

And someone killed Epstein.

I do not think Epstein Blackmailed many men and perhaps some women. I think he ran his island like a club. he charged the members several million a year to participate. This is a lot less messy than blackmailing them. Besides that, word about Epstein being a dirty dealer would have people turn away from him.

That is where the list comes in. Member A calls and says, I am coming for the weekend, Epstein looks up their proclivities on his handy, dandy rolodex. Trump was in on this. Many girls were groomed at his clubs or "beauty pageants" by him and Maxwell. I hate to think how young some of these children were. Trump got a free membership in exchange.

I also believe children were used worldwide, not just from the US.

I am also willing to bet some children never made it off the island.

There's a segment where talks about the international sex trade among the uber-rich. It's horrific and disgusting, and I have little doubt that Epstein and Trump were part of it.

blackmail and bribery have been tsf’s m.o. for a long, long time.

Epstein wasn't the boss, he was the gatekeeper. trump, being trump thought that Epstein was his best bud. After they had a falling out, neither one blabbed to the cops.

Epstein gave/sold those trump tapes (or copies) to Putin.

Putin let him know exactly who owned him.

Whereas if it was for extortion/blackmail, well, still nobody really *knows* how Epstein became a billionaire....

Enough of this information was available for the finding when red don first became a serious candidate back in 2015.

IMO the fact that the corporate media didn't investigate and report adequately shows that the fix has been in to make him palatable, from the get-go.

Oh, and especially inexcusable because journalists such as David Cay Johnston and Wayne Barrett had already published more than enough to make him radioactive to the 'Murican public.

He wasn't bringing girls to Epstein, because their whole pedophilia sex ring was a joint effort. I have no doubt that human trafficking is a large part of the kompromat Putin has on him, right there along with his fondness for having sex with girls. (Not to mention that he owes people a shit-ton of money...)

And actual people in this case

But I think most people knew it wasn't a modeling agency, just because of who he was. I think all of us trump haters back then knew it was just a way for him to get dates and pimp out dates.

previous depositions that were already made public.
Maxwell was just as depraved as Epstein. She participated in the abuse of those girls.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7010864-Virginia-Giuffre-Maxwell-Deposition/