It’s such a relief.

Last edited Sat Jul 19, 2025, 10:02 PM - Edit history (1)

which is ironic since here is dangerous. I'd love to go to Canada, but it's too expensive

I have friends there. (I have friends everywhere.) They live in an expat community. They absolutely love it. We're thinking of going to visit them this winter and see how we like it.

There are many expat communities in Mexico, Belize, and Panama that look interesting.

I follow Skerry Harry on YT, among others. youtube.com/skerryharry

are coming under a lot of flak from locals. Even La Presidenta has spoken out about that.

We moved to BC from California and found the cost of living comparable, even cheaper is some aspects, like gas and electric bills.

Housing can be crazy expensive unless you have proceeds from the sale of a home or know where the inexpensive places are (and there a decent amount of affordable communities, if you know where to look, and depending on your job and income)

Friendly people, good culture, only a plane ride back to the States when you need it, affordable outside the major cities.

I sound like I've thought about it.

City Cork, near the southeast end, has palm trees.

London is as far north as Ottawa, yet has a climate more like VA and MD because of the Gulf Stream pushing warm tropical waters up to the area.

The Gulf Stream keeps the climate temperate. But there is a lot of darkness that far north.

They’re not exactly chomping at the bit to let in foreigners

Have you researched what it would take to apply for refugee status overseas? My understanding is we would not yet qualify.

Do you have any overseas ancestry? Israeli? Irish?

Hope things are better for you soon. I can barely imagine what a hostile hellscape Texas must be.

...that shouldn't be hard to find for many folks.

Rosie has settled in nicely over there and says the people are very friendly and affirming.

not just to reside there as a 'resident alien', or some similar status.

So, even though I am a citizen, I cannot afford to live there!

They like Germany don't want you to be a ward of the state.
€50k isn't that high unless you are retired. It is a bit below median salary.

Need more immigration as the country's workers age. They also are beginning to have issues with immigration from the natavist side. Don't expect things to loosen up.

You only need to prove 800 or so euros per month income to get a residence permit. Most Social Security beneficiaries get at least that amount.
Prices in rural France are quite reasonable. We bought a 120 sq. meter house for 72,000 euros.
People are very friendly. The health care is one of the best in the world.
Language can be a barrier, though.

I appreciate that. I am a citizen of the EU already!

I can live in any of those countries.

As for health insurance, the policy I have is good worldwide. I used in while in Hungary when I needed to see a physician (room service mind you! ) due to the lymphodema that curses me now when traveling via air.

I don't know much French but maybe I can learn!

Thanks again and yes, my income is more than 800EU a month!

I will endeavor to persevere...

Texas democrats can use your vote

I even had a spreadsheet of all the pertinent info I could think of. Banks, phones, visas, rents, safety, language vs English, healthcare, on and on. In the end I decided to stay. And, now here we are again.

This time I decided, f*ck it, I'm staying. I'm too old, too tired, and too pissed off to leave. But, I do have a get-away bag packed with all my pertinent papers, passport and some cash, just in case I need to hop into the car and take a drive over the border to Canada for a 'vacation'. Hope they let me in, if it comes to that.

Stay safe and best of luck with whatever decision you make.

In case of wildfire. Not quite this one.



YET

I seriously wonder, with walls and such, if they aren't there to keep people IN.

Read your history. That's what dictators do.

Good luck, everyone.

Make America Great again by making all the good people want to leave. The gop is a cancer. My first choice would be Scotland. Lived there back in the 60s (and England.). Beautiful country, friendly people. Countryside is magnificent.

NOPE

But we’d head to Scotland if we went anywhere for any reason.

but no, I served once and I will "serve" again

Almost finished with 5 mo of travels...we have the $$. If you have to worry about that, I'd wait until midterms ir Trump's ill health does him in. But then there's Vance.

and Project 2025 and Peter Thiel

Miller and Patel and Bondi and Judge Bove (and I wouldn't put it past them to murder someone to put him on the Supreme Court) and the rest of the gang, too many ro remeber and some not even known by name.

Peter Thiel, a gay man, who's part of Project 2025??????????? WTF?!?!?

About fifteen years ago, my husband was offered a terrific position in Heidelberg, but our parents were elderly and not in great health, so we decided to pass.

Things have changed. This is not the same country it was just fifteen years ago. I don't know what your family situation is, but if it is practical for you to relocate, go for it.

We keep thinking about moving back there. Keep in mind that there were some significant requirements that were in force when we were there 20 years ago, but given everything else, we may be seeing a shift in attitudes.

I live in Washington State. There's a growing sentiment here that maybe it's time to raise the Cascadian flag and announce alliances with Canada and the Asian Far East. There are red parts of the state, yes, but even there, the number of rational human beings outweigh the number of MAGATs. I think we'll wait to see if he survives to the mid-terms, but the whole state has its go-bag packed.

Been in BC since 2012 and love it here.

Good luck in your quest for expatriation and peace of mind.

Vancouver is my dream, but I think it's more expensive then here in northern Virginia

Especially compared to Virginia (we came from California, so not much different)

But we live on Vancouver Island, (the city of Vancouver is on the mainland), which, except for the Victoria area on the southern tip, is much more affordable than the mainland, less crowded, less traffic, and still plenty of urban/rural living options available.

We live in Nanaimo, mid-island.

The city of Vancouver is on the mainland, and is indeed expensive, housing especially.

On the other hand, Vancouver Island, with the exception of Victoria on the southern tip, is much more affordable.

I don’t know what the average house costs in Northern Virginia, so can’t give you a clear comparison. We bought our 2300sqft home in Nanaimo with an ocean view (water is about 1km away) in 2019 for the equivalent of $495,000USD. Same house in city of Vancouver would be $2 millionUSD+ (and it’s not a fancy house) Prices went up during COVID due to low interest rates and fewer listings, but are coming back down. Homes without ocean views are more affordable, especially up island in smaller rural communities.

Taxes are comparable to those in California, although property taxes are much lower. Utility bills for gas, water and electric are significantly lower than in California, as is home insurance.

Vancouver Island fifteen or so years ago, but found access to medical care prohibitively expensive as residential expats.

You wouldn’t be able to live in Canada unless you had PR status (no such thing as “residential expats”, unless you only planned to spend six months of the year in Canada), in which case you would be eligible for MSP, which is free (fifteen years ago there was a monthly premium of $100/mo, but the NDP eliminated that).

Cyprus will give. Permanent residency if you buy home for 300k Euros. Beautiful country less developed than Europe, but still part of EU.

Replying so I can find this again.

My wife has instructed me to stop touting Cyprus until we have successfully moved there and settled in.

So, Cyprus is awful. You don't want to move there. Yuck.

I have thought about it, but my answer is no. 1. I have always been an in-your-face type of activist; humiliation is my goal and 2. I refuse to allow these MAGA assholes drive me out of my own country. and 3. I consider their families fair game for humiliation and harassment just as they are doing to their "enemies". Some people tell me to not get in the gutter with them, but when the fighting goes into the trenches, you gotta jump in with "fixed bayonets"

when you are able to flee a place where you are not wanted. In 1986 I was able to escape Amarillo and move to Dallas. Dallas wasn't paradise, but it was incredibly more gay friendly than Amarillo.

Good luck wherever you land!

I did work with several gay folks at a theatre supply company and they were great people and coworkers. So much fun...

Edit: The Oak Lawn area was known as being lgbtq friendly in those days...

seeing police outside clubs on Cedar Springs in Oaklawn, and the police were not there to hassle us.

yeah, try being a bit different and see how those "values" actually work

I always used to hear that "in the West you are free to be who you want to be". Ha Ha. As long as you want to be exactly the same as everyone else in town, and you weren't born the wrong color, or different in any way.

He basically finances it. Dallas, at least in their circles, is completely gay friendly. No one gives it a second thought there.

I am so glad that the area is so gay friendly now!

I am a third generation Texan who left Texas to live in a more Democratic-friendly area of the country and wound up in New Haven, CT, which is pretty left wing. But growing up I thought I could never leave Texas, oh my god NO!

Now my granddaughter, born and raised in MA, is grown and working in Austin (where I had relatives and my uncle served in the state Senate back in the early 1950s). A rather weird turn of events.

Do you frequently speak any foreign languages?
Do you know the culture of the country?
Do you know the history of the country?
Do you know anyone in that country?
What is the healthcare system like?
What additional or less expenses can you expect?
Do you have enough money/income to live there?

I've lived in Germany and England and I wouldn't mind living in either place again. The problem for me is at age 74, it would be too great of an upheaval in my life to do it now. Finding a place to live, getting a car, making new friends, figuring out what I'd do there, etc...

No matter how bad things get under the Orange Turd I don't see the need to move out of the country.

The US charges taxes regardless of where you live in the world. There seem to be some treaties about this, but it is complicated. You can take your social security with you, but not your medicare, so you will need to figure out the new countries healthcare system.

You get none. You have to apply from one of the “private” insurance companies. I did in 2011. I was quoted about $35,000 a year for health insurance. No clue what it would cost today.

The double-taxation treaty between the USA and Germany was written decades ago. Many new things have been enacted since then. Because of holes in the treaty, between the two countries, I am being asked to fork over 73% in income taxes. Heil Honecker! Be careful if you make the move while employed by a US-based entity.

My wife worked for a Swiss company in Munich.
Health insurance was easy and quite inexpensive. The tax treaty works reasonably well for us. Germany gets the first bite then, if it is lower than what the US tax would be we don't pay US tax. Your mileage will vary. Our tax lawyer here does excellent work at minimizing German tax.

My health insurance, government plan, is about 250 per month.

Rooting for the Grim Reaper to take him quickly ...

Do you have the education or skills the country wants - other nations are getting more picky about who they accept. Do you have a lot of money - many countries don't want older Americans who haven't contributed to their health and welfare systems suddenly showing up and wanting a free ride. Do you have any ancestral ties to the country - some, Ireland for example, are willing to extend citizenship and residency to grandchildren of people born there. What do you know about the current political and social situations in the country - things can be as rough as in the US in some places, especially for minorities.

I'm in the same situation - I'd love to live in France or the Netherlands, but at my age I'm not sure they'd want me. And even if they greeted me with open arms, the countries my great-grandparents were from (maybe - countries changed borders frequently in their neck of the woods) are some of the more regressive in Europe.

And my fleeing the US does nothing to help the people of non-European origin who are being targeted here. I'll stay, and do what I can do in the years I have left even if it's just bombarding my representatives with emails and showing up at town halls.

That seems more important than those other factors, aye?

I was lucky.

I speak nine European languages and live in Europe
I know the various cultures of Germany, it is not unitary. It has only been one country for a century and a half.
I know much of the history of the country, but German history is vast.
After many years, working contacts and a German wife who I’ve been with for 51 years, yeah, I’ve more than a few friends here.
The health care system is a vast patchwork of agencies and companies. If you don’t get active on your own behalf, even German citizens can fall through the cracks and find themselves without any health insurance. It’s only a few hundred thousand here, compared with tens of millions in the USA, but they exist. To get German legal residence and a work permit, I had to present health insurance. I presented my Blue Cross and they accepted it, not realizing that it was in reality practically worthless. But my only alternative was German “private” insurance at $35,000 a year. I certainly haven’t had $500,000 in EU medical bills (or even a tenth of that) in the years since I got my permit, so I am, so far, well ahead of that game.
Do I have enough money to live here? Despite my rather exorbitant overall tax rate, due to a few minor well-timed investments many years ago, I do have enough to live on here. I have told numerous members of Congress, including my mouthy, supposedly anti-tax Republican, Beth Van Duyne, of the unfair double taxation, but the only answer I get is to “rush $25” to their campaign.

Living expenses are comparable except for gasoline (over double) and income taxes.

Americans have this funny idea that all countries will welcome them in and have little to no requirements for permanent residency or citizenship.

Countries with large social safety nets tend to have stricter policies because guess what? They can’t or don’t want to pay for everyone.

we will follow. The other options you mentioned are in our consideration as well.

Daughter is a ski instructor. I’ve been trying to convince her to transfer to Whistler so we can follow her. I think that might be the only way retirees can live in Canada

Keep in mind it’s not so easy as just flying there and deciding to live there. Immigration is tightening everywhere. It’s also tougher to get golden visas. Locals are frustrated because they feel these policies are driving up the cost of living.

You’d have to check the latest policies because they’re changing very quickly. A lot of what you would have read may already be outdated.

VISA application appointment is on August 15. If all goes well it will be very early October for us to leave!

Valencia Spain. While not fluent in Spanish I am pretty functional....was one of the deciding factors for Spain. For Valencia its because it is rated one of the top 3 healthiest cities in the world.

and not the city itself. The city has major flooding and damage when the Turia river flooded due to heavy rain in 1957….. their solution???? Reroute the river around the city. The old riverbed is now a 7km long park and open space

seems manipulated. There is nothing in the video that shows basketball sized hail like that. I was curious to see what hail that size looks like falling from the sky. Maybe photoshopped? Not sure why there is a need to do that but...

I was astounded enough to hear of a brief storm of softball-sized hail in Dallas. I think the local auto insurance companies must have been driven to the brink of bankruptcy, and anyone outside who caught one of those things with a direct hit on their head, if they survived at all, probably suffered brain damage serious enough to bring them down to Tommy Tuberville’s level.

the still image for the link shows a man walking in a carlot being inundated by a raging flood. He appears to be walking on top of basketball or larger sized hail (round ice). That particular scene appears nowhere in the 8 minute video. I suspect it was either a manipulation (Photoshop) or AI generated. Look at the ball behind the yellow car.

My wife has dual citizenship with the UK. But, who knows what Trump/Putin/etc have planned for Russian expansion in Europe.

Moonshine, meanwhile, consider a move to neighboring New Mexico. We live near Santa Fe. We have a great Democratic governor and all of our Congressmen are Democrats. Voting in Northern New Mexico is about 70% D , 20% R and 10% ?????.

Bienvenidos!

Yep. ‘Bout had enough!

Some thoughts about living overseas

Rent an apartment/house there first and live there for at least a month, preferably three.

Remember you don’t have the rights you are accustomed to in the US.

Stay away from expat communities. You will never assimilate and you will hear constant complaining about how this isn’t Texas, New York, etc. I already know that life sucks in X country - I don’t need you telling me everyday.

If you are going to live there immerse yourself in the language and culture first.

Watch how much you drink. Ahem! Most of these folks drink - a lot!

Never, ever, ever, ever do drugs overseas. Never, ever, ever, ever attempt to bring drugs back to the US.

Taxes - hire a good accountant and be prepared for a huge US tax return. Ours ran about 30 pages many years ago. You will register as a foreign agent and must submit forms for a foreign bank account.

Be prepared to wait - for everything.

Please don’t be an Ugly American. Speaking Texan loudly will not help you when there is a language difficulty.

And finally - please ditch the American uniform - cargo shorts, tee shirt, white socks and sneakers. You will pay twice as much money for everything! 😉

These are some things I wish I had known as a young bride in Venezuela.

Most importantly - have fun!

when he drops dead?

All over. From coast-to-coast. All those folks shown in the coverage of all those protests? Yep. And I daresay not only here in the U.S., but the world over!

The coverage of THAT will be EPIC!

There will be those who will somehow feel sad, mournful, and abandoned by their “dear leader”, but they will be outnumbered, maybe drastically.

daily life in another language?

I can't consider leaving. I will be here when the worm turns and will do what I can to put the pieces back together.

You might be better off visiting a nice place in Europe and getting a 6-month visa. They treat you differently when they know you aren't going to stay forever. Meanwhile you'll have time to look around and see what suits you there before you've made a permanent commitment.

Consider the language aspects: if you speak only English, it's a handicap. You'll need to rely on the patience of other people to translate for you, etc.

He'd hardly have a rationale. On the other hand, pumpkin boy is not a rational person.

Just file taxes like you're stateside.

To get a resident visa many countries require a "local" bank acct and that gets reported to the IRS. That is how they know you are abroad. You also, usually, have to file in your new country.

... he is not permanent, despite his wishes. It's a good reason to consider moving, but I would not make it the main reason. (One exception would be... someone with great wealth can move, then move back when the country changes.) Another thing to consider: the "populist" movement is worldwide. Your new country could elect their own Donald.

... within the US, I would consider moving from Texas. It's a great state and has large "blue" patches, but the change is slow and they keep making "red" seats safer. I'd look at CA, WA, and OR... but check the areas for fire and flood concerns. Good luck!

I did it..Colombia..Cheap healthcare, hell I don't even buy Insurance..if you have a decent income why bother..

Food, people, climate, healthcare..6 hour flight from Texas I think..cheaper rent or buying ops..

This disaster is not just about him. There are many others behind this. Trump is mainly the front guy. The real scary people are behind the throne. So even if he’s dead and gone, the takeover goes on. The fight will continue.

If I was a younger person I’d have already left for another place outside of the USA. My spouse hates what is going on but is reluctant to leave at our age. I think the thought of moving a way is too much for two old geezers. (We are 76.) But if we were younger, we’d already be gone. If you can leave and have the money to sustain you, go. Read up on the rules because some places are easier (or harder) than others. YouTube has tons of information if you are serious about leaving. And get crackalacking. Things are happening fast here. Too fast. Get out while you still can.

to you, All the best. Try to check in with us.

In 2017 just after #Felon45 was ‘elected’, we came to France for a long holiday. Our plan was to stay in the south of France for just under 90 days and then return to the US. And that is what we did. We had always thought about buying a place here and going back and forth - renting out the French property for short term in order to finance it. After the ‘Inauguration’ we looked for and found a flat that we could buy and that would be suitable for our purposes. Flash forward to January 2018, and we realized that we just did not like living in the US any more. We also were feeling very distinct 1933 Germany vibes. So, we sold our house, got rid of 37 years worth of accumulated possessions, applied for long stay visas for France and by September we were here in France.

What do we miss? Our long time friends in the US. Our books, our records, our very large gas stove. Really good ethnic restaurants - though we can always go to England for those.

What don’t we miss? The health insurance swindle. Prescription drug prices. Cable/Internet/Telephone prices - SFR at 29€/month versus very basic Comcast at 98$/month. Mobile telephone - 92$/month T-Mobile versus 15€/month Free. Car insurance - 700€ per year vs 2200$ per year. And the list goes on.

I’m not going to be forced out of my country. I worked to long and hard, saved and saved to buy my place and retirement. At 67, on pension, SS, and 403b, I’d rather become a fighting citizen before leaving.

To all thinking of leaving, good luck with your decision and new life. Just check your destination carefully. There is crazy shit everywhere.

We all lose our Investments and/or or 401k’s.

We have family in Canada and trying to get ahead of the curve now.
If they don’t figure out how to rid us all of TSF they will lose theirs, too.

I think it will take a moment on live TV for TSF to blurt out something about Putin ❤️ that
Will do it. They will pull him off stage so quick…..

all along, that after the Republicans trash our country, they will pull a coup de gras and crash the market far worse than Reagan did......
Wiping out everyone's investments, and retirement funds.

The Republicans, the 2025 crowd, and the top 1% will stop at nothing to put the U.S. into a complete depression by crushing the lower 99%.....

Every day, they are chipping away at countless things that will move them forward to that being reality......

The 99% will be reduced to serfs and peasants.

The sending in of the U.S. Military to the Southern Border, and sending them into Los Angeles is a move towards that goal, ignoring the Posse Comatatus Act.................

Spanish don't want you.

But I have immediate family here so that’s out.

A group of professors from Yale who studied fascism moved to Canada and say the lesson of 1933 was to get out. You are not going to be some underground warrior hero, there was no stopping it, they have the military.

I think your version of it is inaccurate. First, Timothy Snyder is a very prominent trump critic and all he is doing is stepping aside to another university until trump is out of the picture, which probably won't be long now.

Snyder's position at Yale is far more prominent than the university to which he went, so he will most likely be returning once the hassle of a vindictive trump is over. Trump is petty like that, so it wasn't worth the bother. Snyder had the contacts and the ability to one up trump, so that's what he did. It's what I'd have done, too.

Pretty much the same situation for the others who left, although they were less visible than Snyder.

The boy is our dog and it would probably be hard to move with him.

We love our house. There are rooms I haven’t even been in in months. I’ve got a pension. I’d get everything I’ve paid in (Cha’ching) but I’d prefer the professional management.

Look, I took the Oath January 2, 1990 (Cav Scout) and I think I should see it out.

i have animals- lots of animals so....
also for those who receive ss- krasnov
might repeal benefits as he thinks all
us dollars are his

Have been thinking of moving to Windsor, Ontario. I'd love to move to the UK but we have kids and grandkids here. So Windsor would make more sense.

Then it might be wise to do so.

if you move to another country and you are on Soc Sec and Medicare. Do they still take out th Medicare if you don't live here?

I didn't sign up for part B or D. No use in Germany. So I don't pay. If I go to the US I have hospitalization, that's it. I do not know if you can stop your monthly payments once they have started. You would have to contact Social Security.

I love this LAND here in the California Republic. I think flags, politicians, other symbols, agendas, ideals, cultures, and societies within this republic, just like the Republic itself, are not this LAND. Perhaps, I could leave these temporary fixtures, but I am use to it all, so probably not. But nothing other than my own demise will drive away from the LAND I love.

It’s time to move. If your wife is asking about it and wants to move, it’s just time to go.

Europe can be expensive, but you’ll feel better living there, even with decreased funds. Look at Rosie. She’s very happy in Ireland.

Central America seems more affordable, that’s why so many move there.

If you have family in a country and you speak the language, the move will be much easier. Real estate is doing very well right now (at least here in PA). The profits from your home sale would help with your living expenses.

If my wife hated where we lived, I would do everything to move. Although, she’s often stated that the older buildings in most of Europe don’t have screens. She hates bugs.

Good luck!

My wife got a job as a programmer. That made visa stuff pretty easy. Much easier for high value people. My daughter just got a work permit. Took 3 years. She still needs to pass the B1 German test. That is basic standard German.
That being said, research first. Being retired can be hard unless you have a big pot of funds or a large pension.
Do look at information from expat groups. They have seen the issues you will face. You don't have live with them. Belize is English speaking and uses dollars and has lower requirements. Ireland can grant citizenship through grandparents. Italy also with some differences. Germany will grant citizenship if your parents or grandparents were forced out, you know why. Citizenship ship in an EU country allows you to live anywhere in the EU. Remember that you would be advised to work on your new country's language.

We jumped fast. We made mistakes that cost us some money. The learning curve was steep. We are staying and will have our own flat very soon and our daughter will be able to stay it looks like.
So we are pretty happy.

Should any one be interested in discussing moving message me.

BBC: Ellen DeGeneres: I moved to the UK because of Trump

Also: Martina Navratilova wouldn't move to the U.S. now.

Moving to the UK is expensive as hell and they’re as anti-immigrant as the US. Ask me how I know.

It probably makes a difference if you're "loaded" and half the world recognizes you.

I’ve paid nearly £10k in visa fees and cannot change jobs with any sort of ease, so I’m wildly overqualified and severely underpaid in a very expensive country that is increasingly unfriendly to immigrants.
I also have a PhD and a research law degree, so I’m not exactly a run of the mill job seeker