Most of the disgusting crap coming from white evangelicals these days is directly tied to these two individuals.

Nasty pieces of rotted flesh, even while they lived

She had Noem's face before she did.

...when in 1985 she interviewed the Rev. Steve Pieters, a man living with AIDS, on her program. Hearts were changed. It was a very brave thing to do, in those days.

He just recently passed away, I think.

The Bakkers sure had their problems, but (as a former frequent watcher of the OTL Club) I didn't perceive the same focus from them as found on the 700 Club, Focus on the Family, or the others.


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/tammy-faye-bakker-steve-pieters-aids-interview

I lived about 20 minutes from PTL and went to see that waterpark and shopping place, etc. (was it Heritage something?). It freaked me out, especially the sign at the water park that said, "Only Christian bathing attire allowed" or something like that.

I often wonder how she would see things today. She was the type of conservative who, at the time thought they were the upstanding party - chuckle chuckle.

for nursing school. I would hit the shower with the TV on and my brother on his phone in Houston (I in Kansas) and while I got ready we would watch it and laugh and giggle unless it was going beyond what it *could be like*, he was gay and I think talking to me might have relaxed him. We got a lot of fun out of it but really when it came down to our actual lives we were often beaten often bloody, the woods behind oit house provided all my dad ever needed. We had both moved as soon as we could. My cousins were and still are of "the faith" but we avoided it. We thought they were creepy as hell (except our Aunt who belonged but treated us fairly and kindly.

Goodman, Dorsey. Miller, Armstrong, Teagarden, Ellington. In my time, this was not cool. Now, I really enjoy it.

I remember watching it for the same reason. I distinctly remember some woman telling a story about Alice Cooper throwing kittens into the audience to be stomped on. We almost died.

Spreading false witness? A venial sin, in quest of the $.

were violent psychos. My Kindergarten teacher beat me with a ruler until I had bleeding welts on my back and had the rest of the kids mock me for the rest of the day because I laughed at a boy making funny faces at us.

Then in sixth grade we witnessed our teacher slamming a boy's head into the blackboard so hard he went unconscious and had to be taken to the ER by ambulance. There was only 3 weeks left of the school year, and our principal, who was new that year fired the bitch then and there right in front of us. The boy luckily recovered but it took awhile. I don't what set her off at him, but nothing excuses what that teacher did.

People always tell those of us who went through it to just forget and let it go, but it's not that easy. The anxiety, fear, and mistrust of others is something I have never been able to fully be free from even after too many years of therapy to count. Probably one of the main reasons I hate Republicans and TV evangelical preachers. They remind me of those teachers.

In Catholic school - nun smacked the kids head into the blackboard so hard he was taken by ambulance. The teacher remained, the kid was back in school the next day and apparently the parents were FINE WITH IT.
He told me this story while we were dating. I decided right then (he agreed) that not only were our future kids not going to Catholic school, but that I wasn’t taking instruction to join the Church or signing any papers about kids being Catholic, no matter what his mother wanted.

saying no Catholic School. That's really bad that teacher wasn't fired, and the boy's parents seemed okay with it. We were really lucky I guess that we had the new principal. She was a lot younger than our previous one, and took her vows when the church had loosened the rules, so conditions weren't so harsh on the nuns.
Sister Diane did not tolerate the abusers and apparently had warned the teacher previously that her job would be on the line, if she continued her cruel behavior towards us.

Apparently the teacher didn't think Sister was serious about the warning, but she was. My last 2 years there were pretty decent.

😥

of sexual abuse. im so sorry for your
parents to promote this form of punishment.

Sure got tired of that. I was not spoiled.

The actual term means that one does not use the rod, i.e.: 'sparing' it, while spoiling the child with praise and other things in a positive approach to their discipline.

It did not mean to beat the hell out of a child over not buttoning their shirts correctly. That came when our society decided that it was okay to injure a child in the name of 'raising them right'.

Disgusting.

I feel you, C. My father was the same way. Swung first and inquired later. He once sliced my leg open with a flyswatter because I did not come into the house fast enough. I was 5. My mother was not physical in that way, but she would just call my father whenever she wanted one of us punished, so she was no better as far as I was concerned, since she knew what he would do and did not care, if not being actively content with the situation.

It sure makes me like the sentence more than I ever did before.

Thanks for that.

I'm so sorry.

This is the clown who interviewed Ted Bundy on death row, and concluded that pornography was responsible for Bundy killing dozens of women.

I had friends whose parents used to use spanking for discipline. I always thought it was bullying.

I was lucky. My dad was a depression era guy who had grown up in a family of seven kids. He said his mother used to beat them with a belt just because she felt like it. He never laid a hand on any of his children because of that. He just had this look that he gave you when you did something he didn't approve of. That look would cut through you because you knew you had disappointed him. It was most effective. But never, ever any violence. And trust me, I turned out okay.

I count my lucky stars for having that.

I couldn't stand that hurt look of disappointment from them. I'm so thankful they were my parents, both gone now. 💞

"I'm sorry, Daddy!"
My mom never ever either. She would get mad, say my full name with force and I backed off.

Kiddos should never be subjected to corporal punishment.

Some took that 'rod' business too literally.

Dobson and his ilk are a stain on humanity.

I'm sorry you endured this. My parents didn't have such justification--it's just what you did to your kids in the south.

shower with their sons to show them that dad has a penis, just like the son, only bigger.

My brother used to buy me Dobson‘s books and sent me a subscription to Focus on the Family. I trashed all of it. They hit their kids and I didn’t hit mine. They had eight biological and one adopted (at age 14) child and none of them as adults have children. One of them has called out what happened to them as child abuse.

I am terribly sorry that this happened to you.

Retreat center. Focus on the Family was founded by James C. Dobson, Ph.D. He now serves as chairman emeritus of the nonprofit, multimedia organization with a global reach. The 5 acre property, was a hotel before it was sold by owners who want to help spread Dobson's word. The hotel and gift shop were not successful.

I live in a red town. I doubt this business can generate enough $$ to survive without assistance from the Corporation.

I'm SO sorry you had to experience harm because your parents adhered to his sick, sick beliefs.....

I’m so sorry you suffered abuse because of that abusive pedopreacher.

Especially against children. Rise up, Coventina. The best revenge is living well.

For his sake I hope Hell is real.

took the Christ out of Christian.

the person chosen by serial killer Ted Bundy to hear Ted's final interview before he was executed here in Fla. Bundy blamed his mental derangement on porn. Dobson was thrilled to hear that.

Or just Dobson? Sounds like the kind of thing Dobson would say he said.

Dobson could claim Bundy said anything that worked out so well for the right wing idiots.

Sadly, “spare the rod” has been a part of too many cultures. Growing up, pretty much everyone I knew was beaten with a belt. It scars a child for the rest of their life.

Dad had a way of pulling that belt out of his pants that seemed to take for ever. Back of the legs, sure hurt. Corporal punishment does not work, because I learned that I could take it. Also I got to be bigger than him pretty quick.
He for damn sure never laid a hand on my boys.

n/t

Got pretty good at that actually.

The Peace Movement turned me around, thank the goddess.

Then I said, "Can I have the belt instead?"

Response: "You're too old"...

And too often go out of their way to cause it, in one way or another.

I do not think the lessons I learned from that book were what the giver intended, because my take-homes were that:

A) James Dobson was a dumb full-of-shit asshole
B) American Evangelical Christianity is a truly perverse moral monstrosity
and
C) that there's no shame in leaving the religion of your upbringing when staying in it means associating, however tenuously, with the likes of that guy.

Beating a child doesn't instill discipline in a child. Fear is not the same as respect, and I wish more people could understand that, No more children should have to suffer because of some horrific theory that does far more harm than good.

I knew I was better than he was.

I'm not sure that it's fair to say that I was beaten but I was frequently whipped with belts, a wooden paddle labeled "The Board of Education" (until my father broke it on me), and at least once with a PVC pipe.

The whippings only stopped when, as a teenager, I grabbed my father, took his belt from him, and told him that whippings had stopped.

I do not grieve for Dobson.

He had apparently not noticed that I was a 22 year old veteran; just a bully

too. He was an evil, hateful man who resented children and I had no desire to accept is 'advice' on anything.

Coventina. You are creative, talented and a wonderful poster. I really never cared if I had children or not. I didn't want the cycle to continue. Love you.You did not deserve what was done to you.

were huge fans.

When I got older, I was forced to read his book for tweens: "Preparing for Adolescence" and to follow the advice in that book to the letter.

Between that and their rabid following of Bill Gothard, I had a pretty miserable childhood.

Oh yeah, add six years that our family spent homeless: (My age of 8-14) didn't help either.

It's funny how financial hardship and ruin can reinforce religious dogma, rather than undermine it.

Like, "Hey, maybe we're doing something wrong here?"

There is no question that they were highly influenced by both Gothard and Dobson, as they discussed both their works and ideas extensively with each other, with us kids, and with their limited circle of friends.

If nothing else, those men, and Dobson in particular, provided an excuse to be physically abusive in the name of religion.

I think I'm justified in hating Dobson for that.

I'm not giving my parents a blanket excuse, they should have known it was wrong anyway.

But, my dad (especially) is a big believer in trusting spiritual authority.

He's dead. Good. The only tragedy is that he lived as long as he did.


MDN

I had the misfortune of parents who not only read and followed Dobson’s doctrine, but also made me read some of his books as a teenager. I remember anecdotes about “putting the dog in its place” which alluded to physical punishment of the family pet, basically opening the door for physical abuse under the guise of “godliness”.

These fuckers are some sick fuck motherfuckers who just look for an excuse for cruelty and evil and twist it into it being “God’s will”…..

Fucking evil sadists.

echo the sentiments expressed by others: I am sorry.

My husband read alot of his books and when our four year old started acting up, he said that he likely needed spanking because time-out wasn't working. Well I tried that a few times and kid got even wilder. So I said f'that...something's not right with my kid. He had the worst case of ADHD compounded with sibling rivalry.

I ended up spending time at the library and Blockbuster renting videos to keep him entertained. He really got into Michael Jackson's "Moonwalk" documentary. Michael Jackson saved my sanity and maybe my kid! LOL

He was an evil man.

I read his book on child care when my kids were young and was totally appalled. What a sick f**k. I’m so sorry that happened to you. I feel so bad for any child who had to endure that.

you were raised with this abuse. No chils should experience this

and I wish for you the happiness that you truly deserve. Hope you are in a good place now.

I have some bad childhood experiences also, so I can kind of relate.

...should hit our son. Of course we never did, being horrified by the mere suggestion.

He has grown into a fine man with highly developed ethical senses of whom we are very proud.

The oldest of my nieces, who was "disiplined" by being struck by a wooden spoon is a fine young woman as well but when she got to be old enough, she got out of town, moved far away, and never came back other than for short visits. As a similar approach was taken by my wife, who left home at 17 and never came back - at one time cutting her parents off completely for about a year, not letting them know our phone number or our address - I completely understand whence my niece comes.

I don't believe either in heaven or hell. For me death is just turning off the lights. But if there were a hell, Dobson certainly would deserve it.

I was swatted but never beaten myself,

Just saw your post as i was watching this episode of Friendly Atheist

My dad used to say that he didn't care if we loved him or not, but we were going to respect him. I neither loved nor respected him.

Now, he can do no more damage. Destroy his books.

Falwell, Robertson, Dobson—all American monsters. They corrupted Christianity for their own power and profit and poisoned American culture.

As a teenager. I can't remember which one. Basically it was about how Jesus is constantly listening in on all my impure thoughts and judging me so that he can send me to hell if I died right at that moment. Kinda messed me up in the head for quite a few years. I think it might have brought on social anxiety disorder.

My father was a Navy Captain and a Protestant and my mother was a Mormon who left the church. As kids, they sent us to the Base Chapel for Bible Study mainly because it was kind of expected of Navy Officers to do that. This was at the last base he was stationed at and after that he was a Navy liaison with an aircraft company and there was no nearby base. Once we left that base our Bible Study ended and they didn't push it on us.

I feel lucky they weren't pushing religious indoctrination onto us during our entire childhood. I believe by not having that indoctrination it led me to be able to question what I read and heard and allowed me to make my own decisions. IOWs, I can differentiate bull shit from facts.

A WAPO story about a “Christian” family in Northern Virginia (think Loundon county.) The Jebus 24x7, church several hours a week, avoiding anyone not connected to their church, corporal punishment was the rule, etc.

And then something happened and the kids had to go to the public schools.

And the world opened up to them! (“Them” being the kids.) In the best kind of way!

My torment was the Worldwide Church of God. My mother used it to excuse everything including her own complicity, my father was an abusive, ignorant bully.

I'm so sorry.

If I am in the area I will pour piss on his grave for you.

The only thing is books are good for is lining his pen.

The only good that came out of it is several life long friendships with my fellow inmates.

At least they didn't "box your ears." No, I didn't endure that either, but both my mother and her mother did. My grandmother was in her late 50's when I was born, and I don't remember her not being severely hearing impaired. My mother was a little older when the severe hearing loss started, but by the time she passed away at 93, her hearing loss was rated at 90% - with hearing aids. Neither of them ever laid a hand on me as punishment. My mother's method of correction was to reason with me - in other words, to hold up a metaphorical mirror so I could see why whatever it was I had done was wrong. Oh, man, could that be painful - not physically of course. I did eventually learn that being able to look inside oneself saves a lot of grief in the long run. I think it helped. Many times as an adult people I worked with or socialized with were surprised to learn that I was an only child - because I "didn't act like one."

I do know that my mom and dad warned me not to play on the train tracks....I did anyway, and I got beat so bad that my ass was literally black and blue.

Wrong or right, I never played on the train track anymore...If I drive over RR crossings now, I get flashbacks.

I will bet every last dollar I have as to where he will spend eternity.

We have Christians in America who teach how to beat babies.

These must be some lovely people =

Beating Babies in the Name of Jesus? The Shady World of Right-Wing 'Discipline' Guides

https://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2011/11_12/2011_11_08_TheAlternet_BeatingBabies.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20101104141241/http://www.achristianhome.com/to_train_up_a_child.htm

They even recommend what type of plumbing tubing to use.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=plumbing+tubing+to+beat+babies