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EndlessWire

(8,103 posts)
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 10:40 AM Sep 3

Why is this not an act of war?

Last edited Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

We sailed an overwhelming military force off the shores of Venezuela, and then sank a Venezualan flagged little boat, and killed 11 sailors. Apparently, no regrets.

I object to my country doing this. It served no purpose except to feed the desires of Trump and Hegseth for experiencing a pseudo war scenario with real victims. Venezuela has a right to sail boats.

This is disturbing in an eerie and dystopian way. Trump is overstepping an international boundary in our name, as if our military was his alone. And, no one seems to care. Trump picks on countries that are weaker than us. Venezuela's problems are not something that we can just declare objectionable and that we are going to fix by blowing up one of their boats. It's not our business, except to monitor.

Trump is a liar and excuse maker. He tells us lies that he thinks will fly to cover his sorry ass for unprovoked aggession. Venezuela has OIL. So does Guyana. The profits Trump will realize come from oil. But, it is my belief that he also wants profits from the drug cartels. He isn't concerned with drugs flowing into the United States. He isn't trying to protect us. He's into control of a cash flow he sees.

It's disgusting. It is embarrassing. It is immensely sad. No one is saying that Maduro is anything but a pig, or that Venezuela would not be better off without him. But, it's not our business, not when we are executing sailors without cause. The whole world is watching this.

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Why is this not an act of war? (Original Post) EndlessWire Sep 3 OP
Especially since trump and his family members are known cocaine users Blues Heron Sep 3 #1
I am not aware of any indication that the people on the boat were sailors, that is, members of the Venezuelan Navy. mahatmakanejeeves Sep 3 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author markodochartaigh Sep 3 #5
I'm looking forward to learning what evidence there is that it was a drug-smuggling operation. Martin68 Sep 3 #19
And proof it was headed to the U.S. like they claim. KS Toronado Sep 3 #41
The Skipper and Gilligan were sailors. BidenRocks Sep 3 #25
Because we're the United States choie Sep 3 #3
Right SCantiGOP Sep 3 #15
Bullying the planet is normal malaise Sep 3 #4
Keep it up oh orange one and someone is gonna get ya. twodogsbarking Sep 3 #6
Malcolm Nance just called this an 'Act of War' on the Stephanie Miller Show. rubbersole Sep 3 #7
Every time Reagan/HWBush popsdenver Sep 3 #8
Operation "Just 'Cause", as I call it. Harker Sep 3 #10
Your apostrophe is significant; adding it puts a true spin on the name Bernardo de La Paz Sep 3 #14
Yes, that one little punctuation mark does a lot of work. Harker Sep 3 #16
Good thing popsdenver Sep 3 #36
"I love the poorly educated", said D.J. Trumpsky. Harker Sep 3 #38
And he kept repeating it, popsdenver Sep 3 #39
It is an act of war. kentuck Sep 3 #9
Trump Is Trying To Be Putin Mr.Bee Sep 3 #11
Yes, he's trying his best to emulate his puppet master... slightlv Sep 3 #34
Putin is one master popsdenver Sep 3 #37
The people were killed extra-judicially because capturing them was inconvenient, though easy to do. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 3 #12
Capturing them would not have the 'punch' for the press. OldBaldy1701E Sep 4 #60
It is not only an act of war, it is a criminal act, punishable by the world court. Scalded Nun Sep 3 #13
The long time refusal to ratify international treaties, like pat_k Sep 3 #48
Are you kidding WmChris Sep 3 #17
Killing foreign citizens is a precursor to killng American citizens. CaptainTruth Sep 3 #18
It is an act of war. ananda Sep 3 #20
Our heroic navy was protecting Miami from being stormed by the Venezuelan navy.....or something. Ping Tung Sep 3 #21
Shameful acts of murder to distract from Epstein. Botany Sep 3 #22
The same reason we didn't declare war on Saudi Arabia after 15 of their citizens attacked us on 9/11. bluedigger Sep 3 #23
I hate Republicans. They are always so goddamned eager for war. llmart Sep 3 #24
Trump is largely controlled by Peter Thiel and Steven Miller. This action was determined to make a military emergency Ford_Prefect Sep 3 #26
It's a "might makes right" mentality FullySupportDems Sep 3 #27
It's a test. They always start small. live love laugh Sep 3 #28
"Trump picks on countries that are weaker than us" Ray Bruns Sep 3 #29
it is LymphocyteLover Sep 3 #30
Turned on the news this a.m. & got a clip of Trump saying they had "drugs...lots of drugs were on board..." Hekate Sep 3 #31
11 lose their lives so trump can bury epstein papers. C Moon Sep 3 #32
Easy--they have no conscience. lastlib Sep 3 #44
We killed eleven people for theater. Iggo Sep 3 #33
Twelve... the guy who was shot the day of trumps "assassination" attempt too IcyPeas Sep 3 #40
Recommended. H2O Man Sep 3 #35
It's a war crime. James48 Sep 3 #42
Is this The Felon's Gulf of Tonkin? lastlib Sep 3 #43
Wow, the US murdered 11 Venezuelans Farmer-Rick Sep 3 #45
I have no delusions that it was anything but drug runners. JohnnyRingo Sep 3 #46
Venezuela's Communications Minister, Erda Sep 3 #47
Colombia's President has called this an assassination of youngsters living in poverty... GreenWave Sep 3 #51
Probably because Venezuela is not in much of a position to fight back Warpy Sep 3 #49
The United States is incapable of greatness with republicans in charge. Not great, not great again, period. RedWhiteBlueIsRacist Sep 3 #50
It's an act of piracy, not war. malthaussen Sep 3 #52
Not that the orange asshole or his room full dopes Javaman Sep 3 #53
It is really disturbing that the military carried out his order to murder 11 people. SunSeeker Sep 3 #54
TACO has and will have a lot of security (until that day comes) SayItLoud Sep 3 #55
It's scary how much military strength this murderous fascist has at his hands. GoodRaisin Sep 3 #56
Where are the generals to push back against Cheetoilini? William Gustafson Sep 3 #57
Were there children in the boat? Bernardo de La Paz Sep 3 #58
It is an act of war... Godot51 Sep 3 #59

mahatmakanejeeves

(66,762 posts)
2. I am not aware of any indication that the people on the boat were sailors, that is, members of the Venezuelan Navy.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 10:54 AM
Sep 3

I think they were all civilians. All I know is what I read online.

Thanks, and good morning.

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #2)

SCantiGOP

(14,601 posts)
15. Right
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:42 AM
Sep 3

It is not an act of war like me slapping my 7 year old niece is not the beginning of a fistfight. The big bully generally wins (at least the first round).

popsdenver

(492 posts)
8. Every time Reagan/HWBush
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:19 AM
Sep 3

were about to be cornered, they started a military attack. The most infamous was the PANAMA INVASION, in which our attack was horrific, and revealed for what it was EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD, (except the U.S. Press and Media)...............HELL, Noriega was put into power by our CIA and HWBush and his CABAL had to do a military invasion of Panama, killing untold numbers of citizens, to arrest one man?????????????
There was an award winning documentary telling what actually took place in Panama, and it was BANNED in the U.S. by Reagan/HWBush. Hell, I had to go to Denmark to get a copy.............

Bernardo de La Paz

(58,608 posts)
14. Your apostrophe is significant; adding it puts a true spin on the name
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:33 AM
Sep 3

Just Cause was really Just Because We Can and "Just 'cause" gets closer to the truth of "Because".

popsdenver

(492 posts)
36. Good thing
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:42 PM
Sep 3

Trump is trying to destroy public education and throw the money to private religious schools or Home Schooling.......LOL

I love Jay Leno and others You Tubes asking extremely basic elementary school level of education questions to passerby's on college Campuses.....It is truly Pathetic, and yet, it helps to understand the ignorance and stupidity of Trumphumper Voters..........

Harker

(16,887 posts)
38. "I love the poorly educated", said D.J. Trumpsky.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:54 PM
Sep 3

I've seen a few such videos, and they're horrifying. I'd like to think that only the most ignorant made the final cut, but maybe I'm overly optimistic.

popsdenver

(492 posts)
39. And he kept repeating it,
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:59 PM
Sep 3

over and over when he was thanking all those who voted for him...................

They all wear their stupidity and ignorance as a Badge of Honor...............amazing..................

slightlv

(6,577 posts)
34. Yes, he's trying his best to emulate his puppet master...
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:13 PM
Sep 3

and eventually someone will get him... legally or extralegally.

I firmly believe what he did constitutes an act of war. And trump is putting our military at risk every single day from retaliation... not to mention from fed up citizens of our own country.,

popsdenver

(492 posts)
37. Putin is one master
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:44 PM
Sep 3

the 2025, Federalists, Christian Nationalists, and Steve Miller are others.....He serves many masters.........

THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS is their Mantra

Bernardo de La Paz

(58,608 posts)
12. The people were killed extra-judicially because capturing them was inconvenient, though easy to do. . . . nt
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:29 AM
Sep 3

Last edited Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

OldBaldy1701E

(9,081 posts)
60. Capturing them would not have the 'punch' for the press.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 09:38 AM
Sep 4

As a baby who wants to be a man, he has to do things that show his (lack) of a member.

pat_k

(11,803 posts)
48. The long time refusal to ratify international treaties, like
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 05:40 PM
Sep 3

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2025, 03:27 PM - Edit history (1)

...the U.N. Law of the Sea Treaty, is one of the numerous grave moral failings that have helped pave the way to our current hell.

How long before enough people hear the voice of conscience for this nation to stop tolerating the intolerable?

...
Maritime law

The US is not a signatory to United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea, but the Department of Defense has previously said the US should “act in a manner consistent with its provisions.".

“Force can be used to stop a boat but generally this should be non-lethal measures,” said Luke Moffett of Queens University Belfast, and the use of aggressive tactics must be “reasonable and necessary in self-defence”.

Human rights law

Prof Moffett also says the use of force could amount to an “extrajudicial arbitrary killing” and “a fundamental violation of human rights”.

Under Article 2(4) of the UN charter, countries can resort to force when under attack and are exercising their military in self-defence.

But Prof Michael Becker of Trinity College Dublin told BBC Verify the US operation “stretches the meaning of the term beyond its breaking point”.

“The fact that US officials describe the individuals killed by the US strike as narco-terrorists does not transform them into lawful military targets,” he said...


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c20700nnwz7t

WmChris

(404 posts)
17. Are you kidding
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:52 AM
Sep 3

I find it hard to believe that the U.S. Navy couldn't capture a small boat with 11 on board without sinking it. 11 lives for political theater.

ananda

(33,217 posts)
20. It is an act of war.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 12:06 PM
Sep 3

Trump created this war because he desperately
needs a war right now.. you know why... and
he can't attack the ME because Bibi is giving
him Gaza.

Ping Tung

(3,669 posts)
21. Our heroic navy was protecting Miami from being stormed by the Venezuelan navy.....or something.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 12:08 PM
Sep 3

Botany

(75,322 posts)
22. Shameful acts of murder to distract from Epstein.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 12:11 PM
Sep 3

This kind of like when Reagan got >300 Marines killed in Lebanon because he got us involved
in a Civil War with multiple different sides and to distract from that he invaded Grenada to
attack some Cuban construction workers.

BTW Trump said the 11 killed were all Tren de Aragua drug smugglers who were threats
to American citizens…. that so doesn’t pass my smell test.

bluedigger

(17,321 posts)
23. The same reason we didn't declare war on Saudi Arabia after 15 of their citizens attacked us on 9/11.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 12:25 PM
Sep 3

The other nation has to pick up the gauntlet.

llmart

(16,840 posts)
24. I hate Republicans. They are always so goddamned eager for war.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 12:49 PM
Sep 3

The Pentagon gets billions of dollars whether they need it or not. If they don't have a really good reason to start a war, then they'll make one up (see Afghanistan and Iraq). In the long run the U.S. is never any safer because of their wars, but it sure does line the pockets of the billionaires.

It's like the old saying where if you have a hammer than everything looks like a nail. The Pentagon has the means to bully smaller countries so they see a reason to kill them because...

Ford_Prefect

(8,443 posts)
26. Trump is largely controlled by Peter Thiel and Steven Miller. This action was determined to make a military emergency
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 01:05 PM
Sep 3

out of their utterly false and legally insupportable contention that Venezuela is exporting drugs as an attack on our nation. This is one more step along the Project 2025 path to an extreme religious and authoritarian state. It violates the judge's ruling regarding the process by which the military could be engaged in presidential policy in California and elsewhere. It violates the Constitutionally mandated process by which Congress must declare war in order to authorize actions, finances, military activity, placing our troops in harm's way, and acting against a foreign aggressor, their troops and properties.

It begs the question of how much of the high command beyond Hegseth is beholden to Trump.

It points up how useless is the Speaker of the House along with how complicit the current Senate leader is in Project 2025.

FullySupportDems

(375 posts)
27. It's a "might makes right" mentality
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 01:05 PM
Sep 3

Seems like it's acceptable now. And the worth of human life seems to be conditional now, on things like nationality.

Hekate

(99,491 posts)
31. Turned on the news this a.m. & got a clip of Trump saying they had "drugs...lots of drugs were on board..."
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 01:25 PM
Sep 3

Mumble, bumble, slush. He himself looked like he'd had “drugs…lots of drugs aboard. “

Who set this up? Because he didn’t look capable.

C Moon

(13,185 posts)
32. 11 lose their lives so trump can bury epstein papers.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 01:30 PM
Sep 3

I don’t know if they were good or bad people, but those who fired on their boat didn’t know either. How can trump etc live w themselves doing that kind of dirty work?

lastlib

(26,715 posts)
44. Easy--they have no conscience.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:37 PM
Sep 3

They sold it to Satan for power.

The same mentality that lets them ban abortion without regard for a woman's health; the same mentality that lets them ban vaccines; the same mentality........ you get it.

H2O Man

(77,944 posts)
35. Recommended.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 02:26 PM
Sep 3

In Arthur Schlesinger, Jr's classic "The Imperial Presidency," he documented that almost all presidents expand executive branch powers. In virtually every case, they use (or abuse) military conflicts or domestic threats. The only two presidents who have not done this are Carter and Biden.

Likely Hogseth is more aware of this than the felon, who has no interest nor insight on American history. You nailed it, as always!

Farmer-Rick

(12,078 posts)
45. Wow, the US murdered 11 Venezuelans
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:38 PM
Sep 3

Without any more info than "those are the same kind of boats some drug runners use".

Well, I guess we are at War with Venezuela then.

All you idiot capitalist who went off on Maduro...who was at least voted in about as much as the pedo Trump was voted in....are you happy now? You all managed to start a war with one of the few socialist countries in South America. Hope that's a lesson to other countries that dare not be greedy capitalist havens of corruption.

Since Putin was an ally of Maduro's, I wonder how he'll respond? Or did he give pedo Trump permission to murder a few Venezuelans?

JohnnyRingo

(20,164 posts)
46. I have no delusions that it was anything but drug runners.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:56 PM
Sep 3

It's a high level form of profiling, but I don't believe they were scouting a route for a Regatta.
They certainly could have boarded and arrested the smugglers like we always do with success, but the crew knew the risks of such a big scale operation.

I don't like Trump and Mr Death high fiving each other like a couple bros with a license to kill. We'll see how this shakes out.

Warpy

(113,927 posts)
49. Probably because Venezuela is not in much of a position to fight back
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 06:14 PM
Sep 3

and Maduro has dragged his feet (rightly so, IMO) on signing some sort of defense pact with Putin.

As it was, the whole thing looked pretty hinky, a speedboat with 4 large outboard motors and a lot of square packages that looked to be wrapped in black plastic as cargo. But yeah, boarding might have been a better idea than blowing it away.

As it is, I think Fatso has struck again and Maduro will be only too happy to sign on the dotted line in Moscow. Good work, how many other countries you goinna drive into Putin's lap because you hate brown people?

RedWhiteBlueIsRacist

(1,130 posts)
50. The United States is incapable of greatness with republicans in charge. Not great, not great again, period.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 06:22 PM
Sep 3

malthaussen

(18,290 posts)
52. It's an act of piracy, not war.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 06:57 PM
Sep 3

International waters, the victim was not an official ship of the Venezuelian state. The fact that it was done by a ship of the US State does complicate things a bit, but basically, it's piracy. You know, the kind of thing Israel performs on a daily basis.

-- Mal

Javaman

(64,517 posts)
53. Not that the orange asshole or his room full dopes
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 10:37 PM
Sep 3

Are the smartest morons in the room, but if push comes to shove they will say this falls under the Monroe Doctrine

SunSeeker

(56,742 posts)
54. It is really disturbing that the military carried out his order to murder 11 people.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 10:38 PM
Sep 3

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:34 AM - Edit history (1)

As Heather Cox Richardson noted:

Legal analyst Ryan Goodman wrote: “I worked at [the Department of Defense]. I literally cannot imagine lawyers coming up with a legal basis for [the] lethal strike of [a] suspected Venezuelan drug boat. Hard to see how this would not be "murder" or war crime under international law that DoD considers applicable.”

Notre Dame law professor Mary Ellen O’Connell told John Hudson, Samantha Schmidt, and Alex Horton of the Washington Post that the strike violated international law. “When the president decides this is a person who can be killed summarily, there’s no restraint on him,” she told the reporters. “It’s a very dangerous new move,” since he could decide to launch similar strikes within the United States in pursuit of those he calls drug traffickers.

Representative Adam Smith of Washington, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, said the strike was “deeply concerning,” noting that “[t]he administration has not identified the authority under which this action was taken, raising the question of its legality and constitutionality.” Smith added: “The lack of information and transparency from the administration is even more concerning. Does this mean Trump thinks he can use the U.S. military anywhere drugs exist, are sold, or shipped? What is the risk of dragging the United States into yet another military conflict?”

Legal analyst Joyce White Vance noted that the justification for the strike was dubious enough that even Rubio appeared to want a little distance from it, as he made a point of specifying that the U.S. acted “on the president’s orders.”


https://open.substack.com/pub/heathercoxrichardson/p/september-3-2025?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

SayItLoud

(1,768 posts)
55. TACO has and will have a lot of security (until that day comes)
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 10:44 PM
Sep 3

BUT his family doesn't have that protection. One of these countries is going to seek revenge, they may not get to him but they will get to someone close. He only cares about himself, obviously.

Godot51

(635 posts)
59. It is an act of war...
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:36 PM
Sep 3

... but sadly what can Venezuela do?

Whoever ordered this attack on an unknown, unarmed vessel should be tried in an international court. The "Commander in Chief", the Secretary of Defense, or both of them.

And whoever in the Navy signed off on this should be courtmartialed.

How soon before indiscriminate attacks on weaker, powerless foes becomes not even newsworthy?

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