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Tommy Carcetti

(44,209 posts)
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:22 PM Sep 3

I'm not going to set any recommendations records here at DU for this one, but here goes.

Everything Epstein related--as to a political scandal--is fool's gold.

That's not to say there weren't horrific, horrific crimes involved.

There were.

That's not to say that Donald Trump had, at the very least, a rather problematic friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.

He did.

There's plenty of smoke, but I don't know if we'll ever see the fire. I fear we're past that.

It all reminds me a bit of the Casey Anthony murder case.

There was plenty to suggest that Casey knew about the circumstances surrounding her daughter's death, and that she almost certainly lied about it to cover those circumstances up. But we never knew exactly how it happened. And by the time the body was found, it was decomposed to get a real affirmative cause of death.

Wanting to do something, the District Attorney's office filed murder charges against Casey. But because it couldn't really say 100% how she was killed, they were backed into a corner and basically made up a speculative cause of death to the best of their knowledge. But speculative causes of death don't stand up well in a court of law, and the end result was that Casey was acquitted of murder, even though it was painfully obvious she likely had some knowledge at the least of how her daughter died.

I fear we are at a dead end regarding Epstein, as much as it pains me to say, and as much as we would want it to be true, this likely isn't the story that's going to end Donald Trump when all is said and done.

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm not going to set any recommendations records here at DU for this one, but here goes. (Original Post) Tommy Carcetti Sep 3 OP
DURec leftstreet Sep 3 #1
There is no justice there to be had, no, but let's set them upon each other and RockRaven Sep 3 #2
This is about the victims. The outrage will be if the press covers this superficially, and ignores the REAL STORY lostincalifornia Sep 3 #3
EXACTLY. This is not about Trump. The victims deserve justice Raven123 Sep 3 #20
🚨MAJOR BREAKING: Epstein survivors just announced they will release their own list of names." womanofthehills Sep 3 #31
+1000 - It's about the victims. Jim__ Sep 3 #32
My BIL says that Trump is likely using Epstein's list to coerce people into giving him what he wants. LeftInTX Sep 3 #4
I can imagine a few possibilities Raven123 Sep 3 #43
No witnesses in the Anthony saga GusBob Sep 3 #5
I could not disagree more about this opinion, gab13by13 Sep 3 #6
He runs a protection racket KT2000 Sep 3 #9
I can't argue with that. Xavier Breath Sep 3 #7
It's about more than Trump's specific role. jmbar2 Sep 3 #8
Thinking what Felon fears most is the others involved going after him. LOTS of powerful men likely involved. Mob too? Attilatheblond Sep 3 #18
It was never going to end him no matter what. BlueTsunami2018 Sep 3 #10
That sounds too much like fuck it, do nothing, save your energy. 1WorldHope Sep 3 #36
No. It actually means there's only one way to end this. BlueTsunami2018 Sep 3 #38
I hope you are wrong, but, I have also been very discouraged. 1WorldHope Sep 3 #41
Doing what is right is not fools gold. Sneederbunk Sep 3 #11
Perhaps this comparison means more to people who followed the Anthony case closely muriel_volestrangler Sep 3 #12
It's horrible, but suspect most trumpsters decide he did nothing because none of victims named him, at least recently. Silent Type Sep 3 #13
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Sep 3 #14
Only if Epstein and Trump were secret gay lovers Johonny Sep 3 #15
No one thinks he will be punished legally. Keepthesoulalive Sep 3 #16
US legal system may not puinsh him, but if ALL the files/players get out, some pretty powerful men might punish him Attilatheblond Sep 3 #19
GOOD MorbidButterflyTat Sep 3 #30
He should be scared to the point that his innerard won't stop purging Attilatheblond Sep 3 #37
The grand finale may be if the survivors can assemble a list of people that allegorical oracle Sep 3 #17
3 Things... Thing One: Do the Epstein files criminally implicate Trump in any way, possibly sex with a minor? Martin Eden Sep 3 #21
Legally, not much will happen. progressoid Sep 3 #22
The problem is... Tommy Carcetti Sep 3 #23
Yep. progressoid Sep 3 #25
That's because Democrats have morals róisín_dubh Sep 3 #27
Trump currently has TOTAL command over Republicans in Congress. This could weaken that. mackdaddy Sep 3 #24
Maybe a handful of GOP toadies on the Hill will realize they can neuter the rat and never have to deal with him again Attilatheblond Sep 3 #40
There are a good number of Qanon supporters in the Maga base who care about this issue LetMyPeopleVote Sep 3 #26
It already IS a political scandal MorbidButterflyTat Sep 3 #28
The Epstein files certainly will contribute to the downfall of f45 and others in his regime, but IMO in2herbs Sep 3 #29
You won't get a rec from me. 1WorldHope Sep 3 #33
. MorbidButterflyTat Sep 3 #42
I do disagree. One, because pursuing this is the right thing to do. And two because Scrivener7 Sep 3 #34
He certainly is acting like a perp Strelnikov_ Sep 3 #35
what are they hiding? bigtree Sep 3 #39
As a rape survivor and someone whom escaped pedophiles several times usedtobedemgurl Sep 3 #44

RockRaven

(18,031 posts)
2. There is no justice there to be had, no, but let's set them upon each other and
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:25 PM
Sep 3

let the MAGAts/QAnons eat themselves for once.

lostincalifornia

(4,506 posts)
3. This is about the victims. The outrage will be if the press covers this superficially, and ignores the REAL STORY
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:29 PM
Sep 3

about it. Why has it taken so long to bring this story out into the public, and who has allowed this "cover-up" to happen, and it is still happening.

Raven123

(7,042 posts)
20. EXACTLY. This is not about Trump. The victims deserve justice
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:18 PM
Sep 3

They were victimized y Epstein, then the Justice system, and then Trump campaign which used the “release the files”:mantra to help win votes. These women deserve justice. Releasing the files is only a start.

womanofthehills

(10,394 posts)
31. 🚨MAJOR BREAKING: Epstein survivors just announced they will release their own list of names."
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 05:02 PM
Sep 3

MAJOR BREAKING: Epstein survivors just announced they will release their own list of names.

“We know who abused us. We saw who came and went. This list will be survivor-led—for survivors.”

The government stalled.

Now the victims are doing it themselves.



?s=46

LeftInTX

(34,006 posts)
4. My BIL says that Trump is likely using Epstein's list to coerce people into giving him what he wants.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:29 PM
Sep 3

"Hey, I see you here. You know how I want you to do away with your DEI program?"

And on it goes.

Raven123

(7,042 posts)
43. I can imagine a few possibilities
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 08:19 PM
Sep 3

1) Trump isn’t an innocent bystander whose name happens to be in the files
2) Trump’s dementia is so advanced he has lost all perspective. Dementia can affect decision making.
3) Trump has been bribed to keep the files secret. We know he can be paid off.
4) Trump is being threatened by someone who has compromising info on Trump to keep the files secret.

Any or all of the above may be operationing.

GusBob

(8,002 posts)
5. No witnesses in the Anthony saga
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:33 PM
Sep 3

The victim died

These victims are very much not all dead.

And that Maxwell lady was convicted of crimes

I do however think that DT is gonna get a pass, UNLESS he keeps with the cover up

gab13by13

(29,839 posts)
6. I could not disagree more about this opinion,
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:35 PM
Sep 3

Epstein Gate is the only controversy to scare Krasnov.

Releasing the Epstein files is now bipartisan with 4 Congressional Magats on board, need 2 more Magats to sign the discharge petition to get the bill on the floor.

If the bill makes it to the floor a lot of Congressional Magats are going to have to think long and hard about voting to not release the files.

Epstein Gate is far from finished, if the truth ever comes out I believe that Putin and Bibi will be involved.

What will bring Krasnov down? GOTV? Lol, Magats are rigging the election.

Speaker Johnson adjourned the House early just because of Epstein Gate. Johnson thinks it's important.

KT2000

(21,723 posts)
9. He runs a protection racket
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:38 PM
Sep 3

and revelations from Epstein files would put an end to that. He is too old to suffer prison etc. but it would end the trump crime family from fleecing Americans.

jmbar2

(7,323 posts)
8. It's about more than Trump's specific role.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:37 PM
Sep 3

It's about a criminal network of rich people who engaged in crime and so far have gotten away with it.

Trump's main role is to protect the rich men involved with his chosen appointments, like Bondi. Sounds like a RICO case.

Attilatheblond

(7,298 posts)
18. Thinking what Felon fears most is the others involved going after him. LOTS of powerful men likely involved. Mob too?
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:09 PM
Sep 3

That's why he NEEDS to be POTUS, and let us taxpayers, the US military and all US resources protect his ass.

BlueTsunami2018

(4,629 posts)
10. It was never going to end him no matter what.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:39 PM
Sep 3

I don’t know why people think the system is going to work in any way against Piss or any of the people in his administration.

I will repeat this until I’m blue in the face, these people are fascists. Fascists don’t adhere to the system, they do what they want. Fascists don’t get voted out. Fascists don’t care if you wave signs or shout at them.

There’s only one way to get rid of fascists and the Red Army doesn’t exist anymore. No one is coming to save us. It’s up to the American People and they are clearly not up to the task at this point. Eventually the material conditions will exist to start what needs to happen but right now? Nope. We’re stuck with these fucks no matter what comes out or what they do.

1WorldHope

(1,616 posts)
36. That sounds too much like fuck it, do nothing, save your energy.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 07:11 PM
Sep 3

People are protesting all over this country, big cities and small towns. We don't see it on the news but it's happening! I'm a born pessimist, but, if my dad could run off to the navy from a farm in Nebraska to fight Nazis, then I can sure as hell fight to the death if needed. The mantra, "We're just going to lose anyway" won't help even a little bit.
If you haven't gone to a protest yet and are capable, go. The comradery will give you some hope. There are vets in DC talking to the National Guard soldiers about their oath. There are many angry people, from every corner of this country and this bullshit has to end.

BlueTsunami2018

(4,629 posts)
38. No. It actually means there's only one way to end this.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 07:18 PM
Sep 3

And people aren’t ready for it. Too soft, too comfortable, not even close to ready for the “inconvenience” let alone get bloody over it.

Because that’s what it’s going to take.

When we’re ready for that I’m there.

1WorldHope

(1,616 posts)
41. I hope you are wrong, but, I have also been very discouraged.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 07:29 PM
Sep 3

Protest days are the best days of my life these days. It's a joy to be in a crowd of people who understand, who are awake.
The protesting may look old and white, but, people from the black community, latino community, asian, native peoples, LGBTQ+ communities, Veterans, formally educated and working class are watching and waiting to see if we follow through this time. We have to win for the children and the future of this country.

muriel_volestrangler

(104,770 posts)
12. Perhaps this comparison means more to people who followed the Anthony case closely
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:48 PM
Sep 3

But as far as I can tell, that was a problem of physical evidence, rather than of many witnesses who must be judged according to how intimidated or reliable they are. So I can't see how Epstein is similar. Also, the Anthony case was one of media obsession, whereas this is one that people and politicians care about. The incentive for the Anthony case was "keep this going, it's good copy". With Epstein, there are incentives to get Trump, or others, looking bad.

Silent Type

(11,214 posts)
13. It's horrible, but suspect most trumpsters decide he did nothing because none of victims named him, at least recently.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:48 PM
Sep 3

If that happens, I think trump might be toast.

H2O Man

(77,957 posts)
14. Respectfully disagree.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:54 PM
Sep 3

The felon has attempted to divert attention from the Epstein files, and a significant number of his Q-anon/maga supporters are furious that he isn't keeping the campaign promise to release them.

Johonny

(24,716 posts)
15. Only if Epstein and Trump were secret gay lovers
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:56 PM
Sep 3

Do I think any evidence would move the needle on people on this issue. Trump rapes women, was friends with Epstein, good friends. The only people that need a more ob this matter are people that will never see because they chose to be blind.

Keepthesoulalive

(1,831 posts)
16. No one thinks he will be punished legally.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 03:58 PM
Sep 3

But it bothers and frightens him, it won’t go away. Why is he trying so hard with cheap ham handed tricks to make it stop? A lot of maganuts were deep into punishing democrats for sexual assault on children and it was Trump all along it just destroys their sick retribution fantasies. Keep it up this is the only thing that makes him sweat. We have found his weak spot keep attacking.

Attilatheblond

(7,298 posts)
19. US legal system may not puinsh him, but if ALL the files/players get out, some pretty powerful men might punish him
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:12 PM
Sep 3

He looks terrified. We know he doesn't get to stand for another election, so it is not voters he's afraid of. But he is terrified.

Attilatheblond

(7,298 posts)
37. He should be scared to the point that his innerard won't stop purging
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 07:17 PM
Sep 3

He should be scared to the point he can't get outta the bathroom except to be taken to hospital, dehydrated and dealing with a terminal chapped ass.

Sorry to be so graphic, but the stunts he pulled today, threatening Congressional members and ordering tax dollars spent on fly overs to drown out and intimidate those women has me a bit more angry than usual.

allegorical oracle

(5,742 posts)
17. The grand finale may be if the survivors can assemble a list of people that
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:03 PM
Sep 3

each of them can attest to "servicing." Yeah, "he said - she said." But many predicted that would be the outcome of the E. Jean Carrol trial. That's they nifty thing about life -- it's full of surprises.

Martin Eden

(14,888 posts)
21. 3 Things... Thing One: Do the Epstein files criminally implicate Trump in any way, possibly sex with a minor?
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:23 PM
Sep 3

Thing Two: Will that information be released?

Thing Three: Would there be any consequences to Trump personally or to Republicans politically if Trump is criminally implicated in the released files?


I sincerely doubt any files implicating Trump will be released. More likely they'll release a lot of documents (most of which are already public record) and call that full transparency, but will NEVER release anything implicating Trump.

Then he will proclaim he's been fully vindicated.

progressoid

(51,972 posts)
22. Legally, not much will happen.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:24 PM
Sep 3

Politically? It might depress some of the right wing nutter voters who were looking for a bombshell in the files. Of course that means they still care about it in a year. I wish I could be optimistic, but Americans have had a notoriously short attention span.

It does have the advantage of keeping Trump on his heels. He's floundering. So that's good.

Tommy Carcetti

(44,209 posts)
23. The problem is...
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:28 PM
Sep 3

...if inciting an insurrection against the US Capitol, being found liable for sexual abuse, or being convicted of 34 felonies didn't destroy their image of him, I just don't see this doing it, either.

John Edwards--our one-time Vice Presidential nominee and rising star--cheated on his wife and had a love child, and he remains anathema in the Democratic Party to this day. That's not even close to the worst of Trump's sins.

There's no standards for this guy at all.

I've become so cynical, and I hate it.

progressoid

(51,972 posts)
25. Yep.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:49 PM
Sep 3

And a feckless and subservient media doesn't help matters.



I've become so cynical, and I hate it.


Agreed. I'll drink to that.

róisín_dubh

(12,133 posts)
27. That's because Democrats have morals
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:54 PM
Sep 3

John Edwards--our one-time Vice Presidential nominee and rising star--cheated on his wife and had a love child, and he remains anathema in the Democratic Party to this day. That's not even close to the worst of Trump's sins.

Republicans unfortunately have fuck all except evil where their minds should be.

mackdaddy

(1,869 posts)
24. Trump currently has TOTAL command over Republicans in Congress. This could weaken that.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:40 PM
Sep 3

Trump has the Republicans in both houses so cowed that they will go along with any BullShit he pulls.

If the snapshots Michael Wolff describes of teenage school girls sitting topless on Trump's lap come out, of if there is actual video of Trump assaulting the 13year old girl known as Katy Johnson who withdrew her lawsuits due to death threats, He will loose some of his iron fist control.

A handful have already peel off in demanding the files actually be released with the discharge petition.

So no, I do not agree. Other than the Grim Reaper himself, the Epstein files have been the only thing that has affected Teflon Don in any way.

Attilatheblond

(7,298 posts)
40. Maybe a handful of GOP toadies on the Hill will realize they can neuter the rat and never have to deal with him again
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 07:24 PM
Sep 3

It would only take a few in the House and a few in the Senate, and he is GONE.

Frankly, I think JD's bosses will pull the plug on Felon before it even comes to that. The writing is on the wall and they are not stupid men. Immoral and evil, yes, but not stupid.

At the very least, I don't see the UK going thru with having the crazy man to tea.

LetMyPeopleVote

(170,058 posts)
26. There are a good number of Qanon supporters in the Maga base who care about this issue
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:53 PM
Sep 3

A good percentage of trump supporters are QAnon idiots and Epstein is a big deal to these nutcases. Pursing this issue will affect these QAnon idiots.



A lot of you may be mystified as to why DOJ’s withholding of the Epstein files so upsets Trump’s base.

It’s very simple.

👉 Roughly a third of MAGA Republicans qualify as QAnon believers.

👉 QAnon teaches that government, media, and financial elites are Satanists who sex-traffic children.



MorbidButterflyTat

(3,702 posts)
28. It already IS a political scandal
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:55 PM
Sep 3

I guess it depends upon what you consider fire.

The victims are speaking out. They have a right to be heard and taken seriously. THEY will be the ones to decide what form the fire will take.

There are plenty of witnesses to Epstein's crimes. They gave a press conference earlier today. And there are probably many more who may feel empowered to come forward.

Nothing like the Anthony trial.

in2herbs

(3,912 posts)
29. The Epstein files certainly will contribute to the downfall of f45 and others in his regime, but IMO
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 04:57 PM
Sep 3

it will be the election interference lawsuit in Rockland County that will be his gotcha moment. We should be keeping our eyes on that lawsuit. The NY Supreme Court judge in the case will be rendering a decision on dismissal or proceeding on or before Nov. 11. Those are not the only options available to her. She can remand asking Smart Tech for clarification on some evidence.

1WorldHope

(1,616 posts)
33. You won't get a rec from me.
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 05:13 PM
Sep 3

Trump has raped many young girls in his life. I've read these stories. How many live witnesses will feel safer coming out because these women took this chance? I think most men and some women would be shocked how many girls are sexually abused long before they are 18. This country is so patriarchal that it keeps it's eyes closed tight about it. This country won't ever elect a woman partially because of what women have to say.
I hope this does ruin Trump but if it doesn't, it's not because he is innocent, and this story needs to be heard, digested and understood by every man and boy in this country.

Scrivener7

(57,252 posts)
34. I do disagree. One, because pursuing this is the right thing to do. And two because
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 05:39 PM
Sep 3

every action Cankles has taken, every word he has spoken about the Epstein files tells us that he is terrified of the prospect of them becoming public.

He is telling us loud and clear that he feels this will bring him down.

Strelnikov_

(8,048 posts)
35. He certainly is acting like a perp
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 06:04 PM
Sep 3

If anything, it is causing him distress. That is enough to keep pressing the issue.

bigtree

(92,595 posts)
39. what are they hiding?
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 07:22 PM
Sep 3

....it's not normal for the president of a party that ran on releasing the files to be calling it a Democrat hoax.

If you listened to the victims today, you might conclude that it's not just about the politics. There's something behind the door that they don't want us to see. Why?

I can imagine, given what I know about the man trying to dissuade us from looking.

usedtobedemgurl

(1,840 posts)
44. As a rape survivor and someone whom escaped pedophiles several times
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 11:46 PM
Sep 3

I just cannot abandon these victims. I contend it is just as bad an example to set as it would be to not prosecute former administrations.

The victims went public. They spoke out a out what happened. Even if Trump does not get the punishment he deserves, the victims are making a list. They want justice and are going out on a limb to get it. You can honestly turn to these child rape survivors and tell them you give up? How?

Do you have any idea that that attitude is why more survivors do not come forward? It took me years to convince my mom her brother came onto me! When she finally gave in, she snapped at me about probably never talking to her brother again, what more did I want? it is things like my mom or the attitude of letting everything go that makes survivors shut the fuck.up. Being raped is tough enough as it is but being driven underground is horrible. I WILK never do that to someone.

I have a brain injury. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? I just cannot imagine anyone on our side lacking the compassion to support people who may be marred for life. SA is a nightmare for adults. It us ten times worse for children. I cannot see how we could abandon these folks who have already been through so much. Is this tongue in cheek? Satire? Help me understand because I am being seriously triggered right now.

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