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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm not going to set any recommendations records here at DU for this one, but here goes.
Everything Epstein related--as to a political scandal--is fool's gold.
That's not to say there weren't horrific, horrific crimes involved.
There were.
That's not to say that Donald Trump had, at the very least, a rather problematic friendship with Jeffrey Epstein.
He did.
There's plenty of smoke, but I don't know if we'll ever see the fire. I fear we're past that.
It all reminds me a bit of the Casey Anthony murder case.
There was plenty to suggest that Casey knew about the circumstances surrounding her daughter's death, and that she almost certainly lied about it to cover those circumstances up. But we never knew exactly how it happened. And by the time the body was found, it was decomposed to get a real affirmative cause of death.
Wanting to do something, the District Attorney's office filed murder charges against Casey. But because it couldn't really say 100% how she was killed, they were backed into a corner and basically made up a speculative cause of death to the best of their knowledge. But speculative causes of death don't stand up well in a court of law, and the end result was that Casey was acquitted of murder, even though it was painfully obvious she likely had some knowledge at the least of how her daughter died.
I fear we are at a dead end regarding Epstein, as much as it pains me to say, and as much as we would want it to be true, this likely isn't the story that's going to end Donald Trump when all is said and done.

leftstreet
(37,322 posts)RockRaven
(18,031 posts)let the MAGAts/QAnons eat themselves for once.
lostincalifornia
(4,506 posts)about it. Why has it taken so long to bring this story out into the public, and who has allowed this "cover-up" to happen, and it is still happening.
Raven123
(7,042 posts)They were victimized y Epstein, then the Justice system, and then Trump campaign which used the release the files:mantra to help win votes. These women deserve justice. Releasing the files is only a start.
womanofthehills
(10,394 posts)MAJOR BREAKING: Epstein survivors just announced they will release their own list of names.
We know who abused us. We saw who came and went. This list will be survivor-ledfor survivors.
The government stalled.
Now the victims are doing it themselves.
Link to tweet
?s=46
Jim__
(14,936 posts)LeftInTX
(34,006 posts)"Hey, I see you here. You know how I want you to do away with your DEI program?"
And on it goes.
Raven123
(7,042 posts)1) Trump isnt an innocent bystander whose name happens to be in the files
2) Trumps dementia is so advanced he has lost all perspective. Dementia can affect decision making.
3) Trump has been bribed to keep the files secret. We know he can be paid off.
4) Trump is being threatened by someone who has compromising info on Trump to keep the files secret.
Any or all of the above may be operationing.
GusBob
(8,002 posts)The victim died
These victims are very much not all dead.
And that Maxwell lady was convicted of crimes
I do however think that DT is gonna get a pass, UNLESS he keeps with the cover up
gab13by13
(29,839 posts)Epstein Gate is the only controversy to scare Krasnov.
Releasing the Epstein files is now bipartisan with 4 Congressional Magats on board, need 2 more Magats to sign the discharge petition to get the bill on the floor.
If the bill makes it to the floor a lot of Congressional Magats are going to have to think long and hard about voting to not release the files.
Epstein Gate is far from finished, if the truth ever comes out I believe that Putin and Bibi will be involved.
What will bring Krasnov down? GOTV? Lol, Magats are rigging the election.
Speaker Johnson adjourned the House early just because of Epstein Gate. Johnson thinks it's important.
KT2000
(21,723 posts)and revelations from Epstein files would put an end to that. He is too old to suffer prison etc. but it would end the trump crime family from fleecing Americans.
Xavier Breath
(6,145 posts)The moment Trump grabbed the reins of power it was likely over.
jmbar2
(7,323 posts)It's about a criminal network of rich people who engaged in crime and so far have gotten away with it.
Trump's main role is to protect the rich men involved with his chosen appointments, like Bondi. Sounds like a RICO case.
Attilatheblond
(7,298 posts)That's why he NEEDS to be POTUS, and let us taxpayers, the US military and all US resources protect his ass.
BlueTsunami2018
(4,629 posts)I dont know why people think the system is going to work in any way against Piss or any of the people in his administration.
I will repeat this until Im blue in the face, these people are fascists. Fascists dont adhere to the system, they do what they want. Fascists dont get voted out. Fascists dont care if you wave signs or shout at them.
Theres only one way to get rid of fascists and the Red Army doesnt exist anymore. No one is coming to save us. Its up to the American People and they are clearly not up to the task at this point. Eventually the material conditions will exist to start what needs to happen but right now? Nope. Were stuck with these fucks no matter what comes out or what they do.
1WorldHope
(1,616 posts)People are protesting all over this country, big cities and small towns. We don't see it on the news but it's happening! I'm a born pessimist, but, if my dad could run off to the navy from a farm in Nebraska to fight Nazis, then I can sure as hell fight to the death if needed. The mantra, "We're just going to lose anyway" won't help even a little bit.
If you haven't gone to a protest yet and are capable, go. The comradery will give you some hope. There are vets in DC talking to the National Guard soldiers about their oath. There are many angry people, from every corner of this country and this bullshit has to end.
BlueTsunami2018
(4,629 posts)And people arent ready for it. Too soft, too comfortable, not even close to ready for the inconvenience let alone get bloody over it.
Because thats what its going to take.
When were ready for that Im there.
1WorldHope
(1,616 posts)Protest days are the best days of my life these days. It's a joy to be in a crowd of people who understand, who are awake.
The protesting may look old and white, but, people from the black community, latino community, asian, native peoples, LGBTQ+ communities, Veterans, formally educated and working class are watching and waiting to see if we follow through this time. We have to win for the children and the future of this country.
Sneederbunk
(16,798 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(104,770 posts)But as far as I can tell, that was a problem of physical evidence, rather than of many witnesses who must be judged according to how intimidated or reliable they are. So I can't see how Epstein is similar. Also, the Anthony case was one of media obsession, whereas this is one that people and politicians care about. The incentive for the Anthony case was "keep this going, it's good copy". With Epstein, there are incentives to get Trump, or others, looking bad.
Silent Type
(11,214 posts)If that happens, I think trump might be toast.
H2O Man
(77,957 posts)The felon has attempted to divert attention from the Epstein files, and a significant number of his Q-anon/maga supporters are furious that he isn't keeping the campaign promise to release them.
Johonny
(24,716 posts)Do I think any evidence would move the needle on people on this issue. Trump rapes women, was friends with Epstein, good friends. The only people that need a more ob this matter are people that will never see because they chose to be blind.
Keepthesoulalive
(1,831 posts)But it bothers and frightens him, it wont go away. Why is he trying so hard with cheap ham handed tricks to make it stop? A lot of maganuts were deep into punishing democrats for sexual assault on children and it was Trump all along it just destroys their sick retribution fantasies. Keep it up this is the only thing that makes him sweat. We have found his weak spot keep attacking.
Attilatheblond
(7,298 posts)He looks terrified. We know he doesn't get to stand for another election, so it is not voters he's afraid of. But he is terrified.
MorbidButterflyTat
(3,702 posts)That entitled prick should feel fear every second of its worthless life.
Attilatheblond
(7,298 posts)He should be scared to the point he can't get outta the bathroom except to be taken to hospital, dehydrated and dealing with a terminal chapped ass.
Sorry to be so graphic, but the stunts he pulled today, threatening Congressional members and ordering tax dollars spent on fly overs to drown out and intimidate those women has me a bit more angry than usual.
allegorical oracle
(5,742 posts)each of them can attest to "servicing." Yeah, "he said - she said." But many predicted that would be the outcome of the E. Jean Carrol trial. That's they nifty thing about life -- it's full of surprises.
Martin Eden
(14,888 posts)Thing Two: Will that information be released?
Thing Three: Would there be any consequences to Trump personally or to Republicans politically if Trump is criminally implicated in the released files?
I sincerely doubt any files implicating Trump will be released. More likely they'll release a lot of documents (most of which are already public record) and call that full transparency, but will NEVER release anything implicating Trump.
Then he will proclaim he's been fully vindicated.
progressoid
(51,972 posts)Politically? It might depress some of the right wing nutter voters who were looking for a bombshell in the files. Of course that means they still care about it in a year. I wish I could be optimistic, but Americans have had a notoriously short attention span.
It does have the advantage of keeping Trump on his heels. He's floundering. So that's good.
Tommy Carcetti
(44,209 posts)...if inciting an insurrection against the US Capitol, being found liable for sexual abuse, or being convicted of 34 felonies didn't destroy their image of him, I just don't see this doing it, either.
John Edwards--our one-time Vice Presidential nominee and rising star--cheated on his wife and had a love child, and he remains anathema in the Democratic Party to this day. That's not even close to the worst of Trump's sins.
There's no standards for this guy at all.
I've become so cynical, and I hate it.
progressoid
(51,972 posts)And a feckless and subservient media doesn't help matters.
I've become so cynical, and I hate it.
Agreed. I'll drink to that.

róisín_dubh
(12,133 posts)John Edwards--our one-time Vice Presidential nominee and rising star--cheated on his wife and had a love child, and he remains anathema in the Democratic Party to this day. That's not even close to the worst of Trump's sins.
Republicans unfortunately have fuck all except evil where their minds should be.
mackdaddy
(1,869 posts)Trump has the Republicans in both houses so cowed that they will go along with any BullShit he pulls.
If the snapshots Michael Wolff describes of teenage school girls sitting topless on Trump's lap come out, of if there is actual video of Trump assaulting the 13year old girl known as Katy Johnson who withdrew her lawsuits due to death threats, He will loose some of his iron fist control.
A handful have already peel off in demanding the files actually be released with the discharge petition.
So no, I do not agree. Other than the Grim Reaper himself, the Epstein files have been the only thing that has affected Teflon Don in any way.
Attilatheblond
(7,298 posts)It would only take a few in the House and a few in the Senate, and he is GONE.
Frankly, I think JD's bosses will pull the plug on Felon before it even comes to that. The writing is on the wall and they are not stupid men. Immoral and evil, yes, but not stupid.
At the very least, I don't see the UK going thru with having the crazy man to tea.
LetMyPeopleVote
(170,058 posts)A good percentage of trump supporters are QAnon idiots and Epstein is a big deal to these nutcases. Pursing this issue will affect these QAnon idiots.
Link to tweet
Its very simple.
👉 Roughly a third of MAGA Republicans qualify as QAnon believers.
👉 QAnon teaches that government, media, and financial elites are Satanists who sex-traffic children.



MorbidButterflyTat
(3,702 posts)I guess it depends upon what you consider fire.
The victims are speaking out. They have a right to be heard and taken seriously. THEY will be the ones to decide what form the fire will take.
There are plenty of witnesses to Epstein's crimes. They gave a press conference earlier today. And there are probably many more who may feel empowered to come forward.
Nothing like the Anthony trial.
in2herbs
(3,912 posts)it will be the election interference lawsuit in Rockland County that will be his gotcha moment. We should be keeping our eyes on that lawsuit. The NY Supreme Court judge in the case will be rendering a decision on dismissal or proceeding on or before Nov. 11. Those are not the only options available to her. She can remand asking Smart Tech for clarification on some evidence.
1WorldHope
(1,616 posts)Trump has raped many young girls in his life. I've read these stories. How many live witnesses will feel safer coming out because these women took this chance? I think most men and some women would be shocked how many girls are sexually abused long before they are 18. This country is so patriarchal that it keeps it's eyes closed tight about it. This country won't ever elect a woman partially because of what women have to say.
I hope this does ruin Trump but if it doesn't, it's not because he is innocent, and this story needs to be heard, digested and understood by every man and boy in this country.
MorbidButterflyTat
(3,702 posts)
Scrivener7
(57,252 posts)every action Cankles has taken, every word he has spoken about the Epstein files tells us that he is terrified of the prospect of them becoming public.
He is telling us loud and clear that he feels this will bring him down.
Strelnikov_
(8,048 posts)If anything, it is causing him distress. That is enough to keep pressing the issue.
bigtree
(92,595 posts)....it's not normal for the president of a party that ran on releasing the files to be calling it a Democrat hoax.
If you listened to the victims today, you might conclude that it's not just about the politics. There's something behind the door that they don't want us to see. Why?
I can imagine, given what I know about the man trying to dissuade us from looking.
usedtobedemgurl
(1,840 posts)I just cannot abandon these victims. I contend it is just as bad an example to set as it would be to not prosecute former administrations.
The victims went public. They spoke out a out what happened. Even if Trump does not get the punishment he deserves, the victims are making a list. They want justice and are going out on a limb to get it. You can honestly turn to these child rape survivors and tell them you give up? How?
Do you have any idea that that attitude is why more survivors do not come forward? It took me years to convince my mom her brother came onto me! When she finally gave in, she snapped at me about probably never talking to her brother again, what more did I want? it is things like my mom or the attitude of letting everything go that makes survivors shut the fuck.up. Being raped is tough enough as it is but being driven underground is horrible. I WILK never do that to someone.
I have a brain injury. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? I just cannot imagine anyone on our side lacking the compassion to support people who may be marred for life. SA is a nightmare for adults. It us ten times worse for children. I cannot see how we could abandon these folks who have already been through so much. Is this tongue in cheek? Satire? Help me understand because I am being seriously triggered right now.