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LetMyPeopleVote

(170,058 posts)
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 08:07 PM Sep 3

Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean

Here is a good discussion of the legal issues in the use of lethal military force when we are NOT at war.

Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean
->Just Security | More info from EcoSearch

Climate, Ecology, War and More by Dr. Glen Barry (@bigearthdata.bsky.social) 2025-09-03T22:56:03.506423+00:00

https://www.justsecurity.org/119982/legal-issues-military-attack-carribean/

On Sept. 2nd, the Trump administration announced what it described as a “lethal strike” against an alleged drug smuggling vessel in the Caribbean. In a post on social media accompanied with a video of the strike, President Donald Trump stated that the attack was “against positively identified Tren de Aragua Narcoterrorists.” Trump also noted that Tren de Aragua had previously been designated as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO). The social media post also asserted that the strike had occurred in international waters and killed “11 terrorists.”

Although the facts are still emerging, the Trump administration’s extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel – and its vow that the strike was a start of a campaign – raise a number of significant potential legal issues. And even apart from these legal concerns, the strike constitutes a deeply troubling gratuitous use of the military that resulted in the unnecessary killing of 11 individuals. ......

A U.S. president may direct the use of military force pursuant to either (1) a congressional authorization for the use of force/declaration of war or (2) inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution, typically as commander in chief of the U.S. military. The scope of the president’s authority to direct the use of force under Article II in the absence of congressional authorization is contested. Although there is broad agreement that the president may use force to repel “sudden attack,” the U.S. executive branch has taken a much more expansive view of the president’s unilateral war powers.

Here the Trump administration will almost certainly rely solely on Article II of the Constitution as the source of authority for the attack on this vessel. Despite labelling the targets “narcoterrorists,” there is no plausible argument under which the principle legal authority for the U.S. so-called “war on terror”—the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force—authorizes military action against the Venezuelan criminal entity Tren de Aragua.

Under the executive branch’s two-prong test for when a president may use force without congressional authorization, the contemplated operation must advance an important “national interest” and must not amount to “war in the constitutional sense,” which the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has recognized as an outer limit on the president’s unilateral warmaking authority. That said, OLC precedent marks out remarkably wide latitude, with the first prong in particular having been critiqued as being unconstraining, and it is not clear whether it would have limited the president in this instance even assuming OLC advice was sought before the strike took place.

Further, though Trump and others in his administration have emphasized the prior designation of Tren de Aragua as an FTO, such designation does not by itself convey authority to use force. Nonetheless, such FTO designations are widely and mistakenly perceived as authorizing such action within the executive branch. Thus, designation of Tren de Aragua and a number of other Latin American criminal entities as FTOs in February foreshadowed this week’s attack in the Caribbean, despite providing no actual legal authority for it.

This is a well done legal article that also goes into the use of force if we were at war



I think that trump appears to have committed a crime or war crime in this attack.
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Attilatheblond

(7,298 posts)
3. First the Coast Guard Commandant gets booted out of his rightful home by Cos Play Barbie
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 08:12 PM
Sep 3

then POTUS usurps the Coast Guard's gig of apprehending drug runners (if they were, but we'll never know since blown to bits) and bringing them to trial.

The brass of the various branches need to gather for a talk about abuse of power and giving illegal orders to the military.

And Hegseth needs to go NOW. JD Vance must be getting excited looking towards his new gig soon.

LetMyPeopleVote

(170,058 posts)
6. MaddowBlog-Team Trump faces tough questions following strike on boat in international waters
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:16 PM
Sep 4

You’ve heard the expression “shoot first and ask questions later”? This appears to be a rare literal example of the phenomenon.

Team Trump faces tough questions following strike on boat in international waters
www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddo...

2kindsjustice (@2kindsjustice.bsky.social) 2025-09-04T15:47:11.570Z

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/team-trump-faces-tough-questions-strike-boat-international-waters-rcna229049

When retired Gen. H.R. McMaster served as Donald Trump’s national security adviser during the president’s first term, he didn’t exactly enjoy White House meetings. McMaster wrote in his memoir that Trump would routinely become distracted and blurt out “outlandish” ideas during discussions, including one especially memorable instance in which the president wanted to know, “Why don’t we just bomb the drugs” before they enter the United States?

That anecdote came to mind this week. The Associated Press reported:

President Donald Trump said Tuesday the U.S. has carried out a strike in the southern Caribbean against a drug-carrying vessel that departed from Venezuela and was operated by the Tren de Aragua gang. The president said in a social media posting that 11 people were killed in the rare U.S. military operation in the Americas, a dramatic escalation in the Republican administration’s effort to stem the flow of narcotics from Latin America.


.....Were the 11 people on the boat actually members of the Tren de Aragua gang? The president claimed they were, but then again, the president claims lots of things that have no basis in reality, and it’s not yet clear whether there might’ve been innocent people on board.

Were there actual drugs on the boat? Trump insisted there were, but there’s no publicly available evidence to support the claim. And even if there were drugs on board, U.S. officials could’ve intercepted the boat, seized its cargo, arrested those on board (or at least offered them an opportunity to surrender) and put them on trial — without blowing anyone up.......

When JD Vance was asked about the administration’s legal authority in this instance, his answer suggested the vice president — a Yale Law School graduate — was confused by what the phrase “legal authority” means.

Q: On the Venezuela vessel strike, what legal authority were you guys working under?

JD VANCE: The legal authority is there are people who are bringing -- literal terrorists -- who are bringing deadly drugs into our country

Aaron Rupar (@atrupar.com) 2025-09-03T20:09:59.147Z


......Around the same time, Ryan Goodman, an NYU law professor and former special counsel at the Pentagon, wrote via Bluesky, “I literally cannot imagine lawyers coming up with a legal basis for lethal strike of suspected Venezuelan drug boat. Hard to see how this would not be ‘murder’ or a war crime under international law that DoD considers applicable.”

Looking ahead, there are a handful of angles to this story that are worth keeping in mind. The first is that there’s no reason to assume the questions will simply go away. Second, if Trump is still campaigning for a Nobel Peace Prize, he might want to start lowering his expectations, since the committee tends to frown on extrajudicial killings.

Third, Americans who voted for Trump hoping for a restrained foreign policy and a reluctance to use military force now have fresh reason to question their decision.

Solly Mack

(95,743 posts)
7. Wouldn't a DOJ memo make it all legal? It has before - worked for the Bush Regime.
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 01:25 PM
Sep 4

Course, that was all bullshit too but well...

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