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bigtree

(92,611 posts)
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 05:12 PM Sep 4

Can Trump just shoot and kill suspected drug traffickers in Mexican territory to stop them from entering the US?

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2025, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

The Washington Post @washingtonpost 17h
U.S. forces could have stopped the boat that officials say was carrying illegal drugs from Venezuela to the U.S. on Tuesday, Secretary of State Marco Rubio said, but President Trump chose instead to destroy it to send a deterrent message to traffickers.

...even though my suggestion of shooting across the Mexican border is mostly tongue-in-cheek, and unlikely because it's a country, and not an attack carried out on an ocean in front of them, this summary execution by the U.S. military on a speedboat reportedly carrying at least 11 people, ordered by Trump, is a chilling threat to any seagoing vessel in international waters that this president chooses to attack to 'send a message' to someone or the other.

In a very perverse and convoluted way, though, this justification offered by Marco for murdering 11 people in a boat in international waters may well be enough to skirt any question of Trump's authorization to order the summary execution, mostly because of the way courts and the present political balance of power has been so accommodating of this president's unilateral actions.

But, also because it's carefully devoid of any stated intention to directly attack Venezuela, or any inference or declaration that the U.S. is at war with the country led by the target of Trump's frequent demonizations, Maduro, despite his ordering the deployment of destroyers, a cruiser and an amphibious ready group with a Marine Expeditionary Unit to the waters outside of the country.

Beyond the missiles aboard the destroyers and cruisers, the amassing U.S. Navy ships include a large aerial and ground force. The Iwo Jima Amphibious Ready Group departed for the southern Caribbean earlier this month but was forced to return to port in Norfolk to avoid Hurricane Erin, which hit the western Atlantic. The ARG comprises the Wasp-class amphibious assault ship the USS Iwo Jima and two San Antonio-class amphibious transport dock ships the USS Fort Lauderdale and USS San Antonio, plus the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit. The roughly 4,500 strong force of sailors and Marines also come with several aircraft operated by Marines, including AH-1Z Cobras and AV-8B Harriers.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-ships-build-up-venezuela/


The reason the administration is refraining from any direct assertion that they are at war with Venezuela is that a wartime posture would open the U.S. to restrictions under international rules of engagement which would strictly prohibit the type of preemptive killing that Trump just authorized in ordering the attack by air on a vessel which wasn't a direct threat to the U.S., or against U.S. interests.

It also, most importantly, keeps Congress out of the authorization game, allowing the U.S. to keep waging this quasi-war against Venezuela under the pretext of interdicting drugs.

Even with the carefulness from Marco, though, it's going to be hard for Trump to insist that this was just a preemptive, defensive response to some clear threat to the U.S. - not only because the evidence is presumably destroyed by the attack - but because Trump's's made so many overt threats against Maduro's rule surrounding his deployment of lethal military forces right outside of their border.

Moreover, it's been the official assertion of the U.S. government, since the Biden administration, that Maduro's regime is illegal and must relinquish power to President-elect Edmundo González Urrutia.

Trump hasn't just been threatening drug traffickers, he's been calling out Venezuela by name, and equating the Maduro regime with the notorious Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua, despite the finding from Trump's own intelligence agencies that no ties exist between the drug gang and the Maduro government.

___Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro's regime does not direct the activities of the Tren de Aragua, according to a newly public memo released by U.S. intelligence agencies last month.

The U.S.’s offensive posture in the region is raising questions about its ultimate goal — and how U.S. intelligence agencies were so certain that the boat contained drugs and members of the notorious Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua.

The memo, published (in May) by the New York Times, undercuts President Donald Trump's justifications for using the Alien Enemies Act to facilitate deportations. The report represents the "sense of the community" of the National Intelligence Council and states they have not found a direct link between Maduro's regime and TdA leadership.

"While Venezuela’s permissive environment enables TDA to operate, the Maduro regime probably does not have a policy of cooperating with TDA and is not directing TDA movement to and operations in the United States," the report states.

"The IC bases this judgment on Venezuelan law enforcement actions demonstrating the regime treats TDA as a threat; an uneasy mix of cooperation and confrontation rather than top-down directives [that] characterize the regime's ties to other armed groups; and the decentralized makeup of TDA that would make such a relationship logistically challenging," the memo continues.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-intel-agencies-say-venezuelan-regime-doesnt-direct-tren-de-aragua-gang-undercutting-trump-admin-report?msockid=19c9661de72e6d54127b7055e6a56cb7


That finding didn't stop Trump's DOJ from directly linking the two, most notably in the way they conflated each and every Venezuelan in the country with the drug gang without evidence in their effort to deport them; blocked, at least temporarily by an Appeals court halting Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport them without any court or administrative judgment at all.

On August 7, US Attorney General Pam Bondi announced a $50 million reward for information leading to the arrest of Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro, who has been facing formal drug trafficking charges from the Justice Department since 2020.

Bondi declared that Maduro “is one of the most powerful drug traffickers in the world and a threat to the national security” of the United States.

Caracas has always denied these accusations, but within hours, more than 4,000 US military personnel were deployed to Caribbean waters. Days later, more ships, submarines and aerial intelligence units joined them.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/09/03/donald-trump-alien-enemies-act-venezuela/85950207007/


I get that the U.S. doesn't recognize international laws, despite being a signatory to international agreements governing human rights abuses and violations; but we do use international law as the basis for the limits on our own domestic law enforcement's rules of engagement with civilians.


...Lawfare had a couple legal experts discussing this today. It deserves a watch and listen for anyone concerned with these murders and looking to understand the issues involved:


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Can Trump just shoot and kill suspected drug traffickers in Mexican territory to stop them from entering the US? (Original Post) bigtree Sep 4 OP
BS...Who knows who they killed. It is naive to believe the coast guard, or whomever shot the boat, which at the Escurumbele Sep 4 #1
if the mob gets away with a hit like this Marthe48 Sep 4 #2
"Suspected"... No proof/evidence. Could that backfire on American citizens? Norrrm Sep 4 #3
it's very fraught with potential blowback bigtree Sep 4 #4

Escurumbele

(3,905 posts)
1. BS...Who knows who they killed. It is naive to believe the coast guard, or whomever shot the boat, which at the
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 06:41 PM
Sep 4

beginning was supposed to be a "ship", rather than to stop it, take prisoners and get information.

This was planned from the get go for Rubio, trump, and the GOP to claim "bravery" in stopping a "narcotics" shipment from Venezuela.

I have a suspicion they killed innocent people who did not have any drugs with them, but the execution was such that its impossible to prove they were actually trying to bring narcotics to the USA.

Lets start with the assumption that in fact there were drugs on the boat. To believe that the BIG druglords were on that ship is ludicrous, they never go on a little boat, they never distribute the drugs themselves, so it is paramount to stop the boat, take prisoners, and get information about the big people who, one would assume, is the type of information they would want to know.

I have never understood how a person can kill another person, and how politicians get away with murdering people for a chance to create a narrative they think will help them politically, also how can people follow orders they know are criminal knowing that once they obey them they will also become criminals. You don't need to pull the trigger to become an accomplice to murder, and the planners are murderers.

Vincent Buglioni put Charles Manson in jail for the rest of his life, Mason did not physically killed anyone, but he was the mastermind, and thus found guilty of murder.

"but President Trump chose instead to destroy it to send a deterrent message to traffickers."...so who is the murderer here?

What a World we live in.

Marthe48

(21,887 posts)
2. if the mob gets away with a hit like this
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 06:48 PM
Sep 4

who will stop them gunning down the people they kidnapped and are holding in the concentration camps? Or opening fire on protesters on city streets?

I hear traitor felon wants an excuse to declare martial law. I don't think the rabid gang will wait.


Norrrm

(3,012 posts)
3. "Suspected"... No proof/evidence. Could that backfire on American citizens?
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 07:53 PM
Sep 4

Would America have a leg to stand on for complaints?

bigtree

(92,611 posts)
4. it's very fraught with potential blowback
Thu Sep 4, 2025, 08:10 PM
Sep 4

...the boat was some 1000 miles from the U.S. and more likely was transporting workers and others to Trinidad.

___Venezuelans travel by sea primarily to cross to Trinidad and Tobago, where they seek basic necessities and a better quality of life. Many migrants undertake perilous journeys, often under dangerous conditions, to secure essential goods like food and medicine. The process typically involves crossing treacherous waters, and many face risks such as capsized boats and other maritime dangers. Despite the challenges, these journeys are driven by economic desperation...

Venezuelans continue to undertake dangerous boat journeys to Trinidad and Tobago, usually departing either from Tucupita or Güiria. Migrants have told me that the cost of the trip ranges between USD $100 to USD $300. Fishing boats—almost always overloaded with between 15 to 30 passengers—are used to transport migrants. While the voyage, in theory, should take only about half an hour, the actual journey takes days, since smugglers have to avoid vessels from both the Venezuelan and Trinidadian coast guards. Migrants leaving Venezuela from Tucupita normally wait for several days before departure in an area called La Barra, where the Warao—an Indigenous group that inhabits Venezuela’s Orinoco Delta region—provide refuge until the coast is clear. When they arrive in Trinidad, migrants land at different locations across the southwestern peninsula of the island of Trinidad; by the time they arrive, transportation is organized to take them to their families and friends in various parts of the country. According to a recent article in the Trinidad Guardian, “[…] 91 illegal ports were identified around [Trinidad and Tobago]. This was mapped out by the T&T Coast Guard. An eight-month human trafficking investigation in the Caribbean by Dr. Justine Pierre unearthed an expansive human trafficking and smuggling ring involving senior law enforcement officers in [Trinidad and Tobago] who assist with entry.”

https://globalamericans.org/tragedies-at-sea-venezuelan-migrants-continue-to-flock-to-trinidad-and-tobago-despite-border-closure/


Venezuelans Risk Crossing Sea to Get Basics

As Venezuela's economy crumbles, desperate people are doing all they can to get food and medicine. Here that can involve great peril. Venezuelans make trips as long as 10 hours to hawk shellfish, plastic chairs, house doors,
ceramic pots and even exotic animals like iguanas and brightly feathered macaws. They are exchanged for basic goods like rice, detergent, diapers that Caracas is increasingly unable to provide.

"It's thanks to Trinidad that we have any food here," said 49 year-old Angela Caballero, a resident of this town on a peninsula that extends toward the island. "If that didn't come, we'd be dead."

https://studylib.net/doc/25424804/venezuela



They're also designating two Ecuadorian gangs as foreign terrorist organizations, making the U.S. military activity in international waters a potential threat to ALL ocean-going traffic.

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