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Bernardo de La Paz

(58,020 posts)
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 10:54 AM Friday

SP500 dropped like a rock. Opened up 0.40%, held 20 minutes, since has swung down a total of more than 1.0%

Now down about 0.60% from yesterday's close.

Big swing.

Was a September rate cut (now 100% of the experts are expecting one) already priced in and the economic data frightening investors more?

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SP500 dropped like a rock. Opened up 0.40%, held 20 minutes, since has swung down a total of more than 1.0% (Original Post) Bernardo de La Paz Friday OP
Trump is preoccupied with stupid stuff C_U_L8R Friday #1
Poor jobs data perhaps Bristlecone Friday #2
.60% is a "big swing"? Fiendish Thingy Friday #3
1.0 %, not 0.60. Down 0.80% now, which makes a 1.20% swing Bernardo de La Paz Friday #7
Are you surprised at the volatility? Fiendish Thingy Friday #13
Not overall, but yes in this context and due to the severity Bernardo de La Paz Friday #14
The latest from CNBC nitpicked Friday #4
Link to CNBC's discussion of the jobs report nitpicked Friday #6
From the jobs report itself nitpicked Friday #12
Jobs data. CrispyQ Friday #5
I think some investors are worried by stagflations. Happy Hoosier Friday #8
One thing for sure, the trump admin didn't cook the books like we feared. Well, I guess it might be a million jobs Silent Type Friday #9
His pick hasn't been confirmed yet Johnny2X2X Friday #11
Not quite blind bc the ADP, Challenger, and ISM numbers are pretty good. Bernardo de La Paz Friday #15
More than business Johnny2X2X Friday #17
I think there are enough experts and data -- independent of trump's admin -- to determine if the MFer cooks books. Silent Type Friday #16
We 100% will know the minute he does it Johnny2X2X Friday #18
The Trump Slump. Sneederbunk Friday #10
People moving money from Tech to rate depended stocks Johonny Friday #19
I wouldn't read too much into this... Here's the last month or so... WarGamer Friday #20
And of course the dipbuyers rushed in nitpicked Friday #21
Nice little recovery Greg_In_SF Friday #22

C_U_L8R

(48,009 posts)
1. Trump is preoccupied with stupid stuff
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 10:59 AM
Friday

like rebranding the Pentagon, building ballrooms, ruining patios and gilding the Oval Office in fake gold.
Maybe it's a good thing he isn't focused on the economy because he'd probably fuck it up even more.

Bernardo de La Paz

(58,020 posts)
7. 1.0 %, not 0.60. Down 0.80% now, which makes a 1.20% swing
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:12 AM
Friday
swing

Down 1.20% in about 90 minutes is a very big swing. Up 0.40% from yesterday's close then down 0.80% from yesterday's close is a 1.20% swing.

"swing", not "down from yesterday".

Fiendish Thingy

(20,636 posts)
13. Are you surprised at the volatility?
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:26 AM
Friday

I’m not.

I expect the markets will churn for a couple of weeks until the next Fed meeting, then, if rates are cut as expected, surge past previous highs.

And then, as job losses mount, GDP contracts and inflation climbs, more volatility.

The silver lining will come when a recession is called, probably mid-2026, and that pushes Dems to double digit gains in the house in the midterms despite gerrymandering.

Bernardo de La Paz

(58,020 posts)
14. Not overall, but yes in this context and due to the severity
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:34 AM
Friday

I did not expect the market to go up and then turn tail down so much. It has recovered some since then, down only 0.50% (0.90% swing) as of this writing.

nitpicked

(1,350 posts)
4. The latest from CNBC
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:09 AM
Friday
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/04/stock-market-today-live-updates-.html

S&P 500 gives up gain as traders balance job market worries with rate cut hopes: Live updates

A fragile rally dissolved in the first hour of trading as rate cut hopes gave way to worries about a slowing economy following weaker-than-expected August jobs figures.

The S&P 500
dropped 0.8%, while the Nasdaq Composite
declined 0.7%. The Dow Jones Industrial Average
fell 330 points, or 0.7%. That move lower took out the S&P 500′s gain for the week.
(snip)

The August jobs report saw the U.S. economy add 22,000 jobs on the month, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday. That’s below the 75,000 that economists polled by Dow Jones had expected. The unemployment rate also rose to 4.3%, in line with expectations.

Traders are hoping the reading will lend support to the Fed’s case to go ahead with an expected rate cut at its September policy meeting. Fed funds futures trading suggests that benchmark interest rates will likely move a quarter percentage point lower when the central bank makes a decision on Sept.17, according to the CME Group’s FedWatch tool.
(snip)

nitpicked

(1,350 posts)
12. From the jobs report itself
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:25 AM
Friday
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

(snip)
Total nonfarm payroll employment changed little in August (+22,000) and has shown little change
since April. Over the month, a job gain in health care was partially offset by losses in federal
government and in mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction. (See table B-1.)
(snip)

Federal government employment continued to decline in August (-15,000) and is down by 97,000
since reaching a peak in January. (Employees on paid leave or receiving ongoing severance pay are
counted as employed in the establishment survey.)
(snip)

CrispyQ

(40,196 posts)
5. Jobs data.
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:12 AM
Friday
https://www.cnn.com/business/live-news/us-jobs-report-august-2025

snip...

• The latest employment snapshot from the Bureau of Labor Statistics paints a bleak picture of the current state of the economy under President Donald Trump.

• Labor market deterioration: Just 22,0000 jobs were added in August, dramatically lower than economists’ expectations for 76,500 new roles.

• Negative job growth: For the first time in nearly four years, the economy lost jobs, with a decline of 13,000 positions in June.

• Rising unemployment: The jobless rate rose to 4.3%, the highest level since 2021.


But hey, let's build a ballroom!

Happy Hoosier

(9,070 posts)
8. I think some investors are worried by stagflations.
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:17 AM
Friday

The job market is weak, and inflation is creeping up. There is likely a modest rate coming, but with inflation threatening, the Fed will be reluctant to just open the money spigot.

Krasnov has truly fucked the economy.

Silent Type

(10,850 posts)
9. One thing for sure, the trump admin didn't cook the books like we feared. Well, I guess it might be a million jobs
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:19 AM
Friday

lost, reported as a small gain of 22K.

Johnny2X2X

(23,291 posts)
11. His pick hasn't been confirmed yet
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:24 AM
Friday

And he came out and said last night that the book cooking starts next year for the jobs report. Said the numbers will be whatever, he doesn't really care, and the real numbers will start next year.

I don't think most people understand what a huge deal the BLS numbers are. So many things in our economy and at all levels of government key off those numbers. If they stop being reliable, we're flying blind in business and government.

Bernardo de La Paz

(58,020 posts)
15. Not quite blind bc the ADP, Challenger, and ISM numbers are pretty good.
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:40 AM
Friday

The ADP numbers, though only 20% of the economy, are obtained from actual payroll data so ADP numbers are quite solid. The BLM surveys about 75% or there is a 75% response rate, and since they are surveys only, they are more volatile and subject to revisions, as we have seen. The BLM revisions have a habit of bringing them into line with the ADP numbers.

But yes, BLM statistics are very broad and are relied upon by business.

Johnny2X2X

(23,291 posts)
17. More than business
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:49 AM
Friday

Governments. Local governments use BLS statistics to tell them when to trigger safeguards. And it's a lot more than just jobs data, BLS handles GDP growth, inflation, and a whole host of other metrics thousands of organizations rely on to know what to do and when to do it.

People don't even know it, but your local government probably has parts of their budget that are based on some of this data. Things written into your city charter that say things like, 'If nationwide unemployment his 6%, then X amount of funds will be released to fund school lunch programs, and X amount of funds will be released to go to training." There are triggers baked into state governments based on these numbers. It's how they know what to do to serve the citizens best.

The BLS has been a source of truth that companies and governments can use for generations. Without them, it will be chaos. For business, it adds risk. For governments, it makes it harder for them to react.

All because Trump doesn't like that people are finding out he's destroying our economy.

Silent Type

(10,850 posts)
16. I think there are enough experts and data -- independent of trump's admin -- to determine if the MFer cooks books.
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:43 AM
Friday

Johnny2X2X

(23,291 posts)
18. We 100% will know the minute he does it
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 11:57 AM
Friday

There are lifelong dedicated civil servants at the BLS that will sound the alarm.

The problem is though that the corporate media will make some noise for a month or two and then stop caring about it. They'll just go back to reporting the data like it's valid somehow, even when it's absolutely ridiculously made up. I can see FOX News now, "Unemployment hits 0.2% while Trump adds 1 Million jobs to the economy for the 15th month in a row. Wages are $100 an hour while inflation sits at 0.0%." The numbers will be useless and the private firms doing them just don't have the pedigree to lead the effort.

Johonny

(24,495 posts)
19. People moving money from Tech to rate depended stocks
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 12:01 PM
Friday

My Reits are up, my tech is down. But I think the markets are clearly moving in anticipation of a Sept cut, but also more cuts this year.

That's my take.

WarGamer

(17,785 posts)
20. I wouldn't read too much into this... Here's the last month or so...
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 12:06 PM
Friday

Considering it's a Friday... in September... recent all time highs...

Pretty much normal.

Greg_In_SF

(509 posts)
22. Nice little recovery
Fri Sep 5, 2025, 04:00 PM
Friday

in the second half of the day. Right back where I was at the beginning of the trading week. Anytime that happens in September is good news.

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