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Atreus

(71 posts)
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 08:48 AM 19 hrs ago

Assassination Is a Direct Attack on Democracy Itself

Charlie Kirk’s assassination yesterday was an abomination. Political violence is poison. It is anti-democratic to its core. No matter who the target is, killing someone for their politics is not justice, not progress, not righteousness; it is murder, full stop. And murder has no place in a democracy.

I will not sanitize what Kirk represented. His ideology was toxic, divisive, and cruel. He spent his career punching down, spreading falsehoods, and stoking resentment for profit and power. Society is better off without his corrosive influence. But that truth does not diminish the fact that his assassination is an outrage.

Here is the distinction that matters: his family and friends have suffered a tragic loss, and they deserve empathy in their grief. That empathy, the ability to feel the pain of others even when we despised the man they loved, is what separates us from the callousness Kirk himself so often displayed.

We cannot allow political assassination to become normalized. If we do, no voice is safe, no dissent survives, and democracy collapses into fear and blood. Political killings are not acts of resistance; they are acts of destruction. And we must say so without hesitation, without exception.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Assassination Is a Direct Attack on Democracy Itself (Original Post) Atreus 19 hrs ago OP
If a lone gunman assassinating a purveyor of hate is a threat to our democracy, then surely mass shootings lostincalifornia 18 hrs ago #1
Facts! Atreus 18 hrs ago #8
Who decides who fits the description of purveyor of hate? RoseTrellis 18 hrs ago #12
I leave it to you to "debate" who is a purveyor of hate or not. I don't have any confusion about it, and I sure lostincalifornia 17 hrs ago #17
Nazis like Chuckie Random Person 17 hrs ago #21
Every time Trump's polls drop, a shooter shows up to boost his approval mainer 18 hrs ago #2
yep bigtree 18 hrs ago #3
What's your solution Atreus gab13by13 18 hrs ago #4
Not More Violence Atreus 18 hrs ago #10
Nobody on here is advocating killing anyone. For their beliefs or for any other reason. Crunchy Frog 18 hrs ago #14
Closing Thoughts Atreus 17 hrs ago #16
Why is it "political violence" when it could be typical "gun violence" blm 18 hrs ago #5
A point: Kirk was not a government official. This was a murder. Not an assassination. Scrivener7 18 hrs ago #6
Thank you Ghost of Tom Joad 18 hrs ago #15
Killing a social media personality is not as big an attack on Democracy as killing state politicians Johnny2X2X 18 hrs ago #7
Yes, and so is using a random killing to try to foment violence against political opponents. Crunchy Frog 18 hrs ago #9
The problem is Trump. Emile 18 hrs ago #11
I disagree Fiendish Thingy 18 hrs ago #13
Motive OC375 17 hrs ago #18
It wasn't an assassination, it was a murder Random Person 17 hrs ago #19
Atreus, I agree with and applaud everything in your OP -- except the subject title Martin Eden 17 hrs ago #20

lostincalifornia

(4,374 posts)
1. If a lone gunman assassinating a purveyor of hate is a threat to our democracy, then surely mass shootings
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:02 AM
18 hrs ago

at schools, republicans refusing to pass sensible gun control legislation, and a president who believes in unitary executive theory, not accountable to anyone, has to be a direct threat to our democracy, even more so.


Atreus

(71 posts)
8. Facts!
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:21 AM
18 hrs ago

Mass shootings, weak laws, and unchecked power all show just how fragile our democracy is.

RoseTrellis

(32 posts)
12. Who decides who fits the description of purveyor of hate?
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:41 AM
18 hrs ago

This is the problem. If any faction decides killing is wrong, except for those pronounced as
“Purveyors of Hate” then where does it end? We have our suspects who we think are and we cheer when they are executed.
Do we accept their executions of people they proclaim as the same?

lostincalifornia

(4,374 posts)
17. I leave it to you to "debate" who is a purveyor of hate or not. I don't have any confusion about it, and I sure
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:14 AM
17 hrs ago

as heck am not going to legitimize it by playing it is "all in the eyes of the beholder".

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, its a duck.

and as far as implying that I am justifying his killing, I NEVER SAID OR IMPLIED SUCH A THING.

Our dialog on this is finished, I will not engage with you further.






mainer

(12,424 posts)
2. Every time Trump's polls drop, a shooter shows up to boost his approval
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:03 AM
18 hrs ago

Trump was on the way to losing the election when that "assassination" attempt conveniently goosed his approval ratings.
The Epstein story was hurting Trump's numbers, and a gunman once again conveniently shows up to rouse his base.
Every time Trump's numbers start to go down, get ready for a gunman to show up.

gab13by13

(29,730 posts)
4. What's your solution Atreus
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:13 AM
18 hrs ago

There are mass shootings every week in America.

The little kids in Sandy Hook were assassinated, and it has only gotten easier to obtain weapons of mass destruction.

Atreus

(71 posts)
10. Not More Violence
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:37 AM
18 hrs ago

The outrage being expressed is real, the epidemic of gun violence, the attacks on elected officials (I get it, Kirk was not an elected official), the ease with which someone can kill someone else, these are urgent, frightening problems. I don’t have a simple solution. But none of that changes the fact that taking a life, or hand-waving it away when it happens to someone you despise, is wrong.

Call it assassination, call it murder, call it gun violence, the label matters less than the principle: killing someone for their beliefs or influence is a step toward normalizing fear and retaliation, and it corrodes our society. We can debate how much of an impact one death has on democracy, or compare tragedies, those points are valid. But the core truth remains: violence against people we disagree with undermines the very democracy we’re trying to protect.

We can and should be worried, but we also have to be consistent in our condemnation. Empathy for victims, regardless of politics, is not weakness, it’s what keeps society from turning revenge and hatred into policy.

Crunchy Frog

(27,879 posts)
14. Nobody on here is advocating killing anyone. For their beliefs or for any other reason.
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:48 AM
18 hrs ago

I feel like this is buying into the RW narrative that "the left" is collectively responsible for murdering CK. We're not. We. Did. Not. Do. It.

People can feel however they want to about a despicable human being being killed. We all know that the killing is wrong, and most of us know that it will have a negative effect on our society (they're already calling for our mass arrests/executions). None of us has to feel bad about this particular individual though. I refuse to play into the RW narrative.

Atreus

(71 posts)
16. Closing Thoughts
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:10 AM
17 hrs ago

To be clear, I was not suggesting anyone here is advocating violence; though upon a second read I can see how that may have been inferred, however that was not my intent. My point is that if we want a society less defined by fear and retaliation, we have to be consistent in condemning killing, no matter the victim. That said, I stand by this: Kirk’s voice of hate is gone, and the world is better for it.

blm

(114,309 posts)
5. Why is it "political violence" when it could be typical "gun violence"
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:14 AM
18 hrs ago

in this case?

Scrivener7

(57,083 posts)
6. A point: Kirk was not a government official. This was a murder. Not an assassination.
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:17 AM
18 hrs ago

A gun murder. Like so many other murders in our country.

You know, those murders we vote against and they respond by calling us "libtards." Those murders.

Johnny2X2X

(23,367 posts)
7. Killing a social media personality is not as big an attack on Democracy as killing state politicians
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:19 AM
18 hrs ago

What happened in Minnesota is a much bigger deal IMO. Doesn't mean this was not wrong and bad, but Charlie Kirk was not an elected official who had anything to do with our Democratic processes.

Crunchy Frog

(27,879 posts)
9. Yes, and so is using a random killing to try to foment violence against political opponents.
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:34 AM
18 hrs ago

In the cesspool known as Xitter, it is full of accounts proclaiming the entirety of "the left" (by which they mean Democrats and liberals) as having collectively murdered CK, and threatening retribution for it against all of us who have political beliefs they disagree with.

I personally refuse to accept this narrative or the claim that I was somehow a participant in this killing.

I couldn't care less about CK, his family, or his friends. I do care about the climate of violence and division that's developing in this country, and the way the Magats are using this to push forward their violent agenda.

Fiendish Thingy

(20,691 posts)
13. I disagree
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 09:43 AM
18 hrs ago

Assassination of elected officials, candidates or other public servants is an attack on democracy.

Assassination of outspoken public figures is simply murder, or in extreme cases, terrorism.

OC375

(234 posts)
18. Motive
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:14 AM
17 hrs ago

Assassination is about motive. MLK wasn’t an elected official either. For some reason we don’t use the term much in the US. Killing a doctor that does abortions could be assassination, depending on motive, FWIW.

Random Person

(33 posts)
19. It wasn't an assassination, it was a murder
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:16 AM
17 hrs ago

Chuckie Kirk was a piece of malignant shit.

I will show his family as much empathy as he would have shown my mixed race family: a whole bag of dicks.

Martin Eden

(14,868 posts)
20. Atreus, I agree with and applaud everything in your OP -- except the subject title
Fri Sep 12, 2025, 10:18 AM
17 hrs ago

Voter suppression, fraud, and schemes to overturn free and fair elections are direct attacks on democracy. J6 was the single greatest direct assault on our Democracy. Assassination of an elected official is also direct, because it overturned the choice of voters.

The killing of Charlie Kirk was a direct attack on free speech, which is a component of democracy. This may sound like nit picking or semantics, but I think the term "direct" is a bit of a stretch.

My view is likely colored by the fact that Kirk's influential rhetoric in support of Donald Trump and what he represents contributes to the very real ongoing direct assault on American democracy.

Of course, we should all remember the principle of "disagree with what you say, but defend to the death your right to say it."

So, maybe I need to reassess my objection to your subject title. Charlie Kirk certainly deserved to be rejected and publicly disgraced for his destructive poisonous rhetoric, but not to be killed for saying it.

I feel the same way about Donald Trump. Don't make him a martyr. Reject his poison, remove him from office, and see that justice is served. I want him to spend what remains of his life in prison, paying for his crimes.

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