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Chasstev365

(6,568 posts)
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 05:56 PM 8 hrs ago

When does the Stock Market Crash?

Every time there are warning signs about the economy, the market still goes up. We know billionaires are pumping money in to keep it artificially high, but its a house of cards. What will cause the coming crash?

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
When does the Stock Market Crash? (Original Post) Chasstev365 8 hrs ago OP
Trump will Jerry2144 8 hrs ago #1
Yes, there absolutely no limits PatSeg 8 hrs ago #3
People here have been predicting for months and months that it will happen any day MichMan 8 hrs ago #2
Nope- just keeping things balanced and diversified Fiendish Thingy 6 hrs ago #15
I exchanged my more volatile investments CanonRay 2 hrs ago #34
When financial underpinnings of the Trump economy are worse than AI growth prospects bucolic_frolic 8 hrs ago #4
Up 20k points since 2019 OC375 8 hrs ago #5
I switched my 401K from a retirement target date fund Karma13612 7 hrs ago #6
So did I. no_hypocrisy 5 hrs ago #16
I laddered CDs KentuckyWoman 5 hrs ago #17
Yes, I am looking Karma13612 3 hrs ago #21
You could get an FDIC-protected CD and ... Dave says 3 hrs ago #26
Thank you for this! Karma13612 3 hrs ago #29
Same here. GoodRaisin 8 min ago #37
a sign of extreme wealth inequality DBoon 7 hrs ago #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Midnight Writer 7 hrs ago #8
Great Points ProfessorGAC 7 hrs ago #9
Exxon is down because oil is down. Melon 3 hrs ago #31
This is absolutely not true. Every section (11 in total) are all up this year Melon 4 hrs ago #19
Thanks, Melon. I'll delete my post. Midnight Writer 3 hrs ago #20
Whenever the AI bubble bursts D_Master81 6 hrs ago #10
Just about anything could spook investors Fiendish Thingy 6 hrs ago #11
Who knows? Timing the market is a fool's errand fujiyamasan 6 hrs ago #12
80% of the run up edhopper 6 hrs ago #13
I am assuming rate cuts and Ai job trimming Johonny 3 hrs ago #23
Tech bubble is ready Blue Full Moon 6 hrs ago #14
When Nvidia... hunter 5 hrs ago #18
Yep. As Prof G describes, America is essentially an all in bet on AI, with circular deals artificially inflating values pat_k 2 hrs ago #32
Today was a nutty day Johonny 3 hrs ago #22
When the AI bubble bursts krawhitham 3 hrs ago #24
November? Captain Zero 3 hrs ago #25
There is so much global wealth sloshing around, it has to go somewhere jmbar2 3 hrs ago #27
Don't know when, but Prof G sets out how the end will begin: pat_k 3 hrs ago #28
Yes, it's a bubble. Money chasing money, and the "best outcome" I can see for AI is in specialized verticals, where it's usonian 2 hrs ago #33
I wish I could comment on all of this lapfog_1 3 hrs ago #30
AI companies are reporting huge profits. It's a bubble but kinda different from 1999. Quixote1818 2 hrs ago #35
When all the missing economic data is finally released, and it's horrific even with manipulation. Doodley 34 min ago #36

Jerry2144

(3,039 posts)
1. Trump will
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:01 PM
8 hrs ago

Not sure how. But it will be yet another stupidly destructive thing this Stable Genius does.

PatSeg

(51,304 posts)
3. Yes, there absolutely no limits
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:07 PM
8 hrs ago

to how much he can screw things up. He has a lifetime of experience and he only gets better at it with age.

MichMan

(16,163 posts)
2. People here have been predicting for months and months that it will happen any day
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:06 PM
8 hrs ago

I'm assuming they took all their money out of it a long time ago.

Fiendish Thingy

(21,235 posts)
15. Nope- just keeping things balanced and diversified
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 08:07 PM
6 hrs ago

Just spoke with my advisor last week and he said they have been rebalancing all portfolios to keep them from getting overweighted with tech funds.

Moving to cash or money market now might feel like the safe thing to do, but timing the market is a fool’s errand. Cash/Money market accounts will never keep up with even mild inflation, and if we enter a recession as expected, inflation could hit double digits. You might lose money on paper, but inflation will eat away at the purchasing power of your cash.

Our portfolio has survived the crashes of 1987, 2001 dot com bust, 2008 GFC, and COVID, and recouped the losses (which were always less than the DOW/S&P drops) and went on the make significant gains. Some years were nail biters, but we stayed the course and are better off for it.

We are retired now (left work just before COVID), and maintain a moderate risk portfolio of 60/40 stock/bonds.

bucolic_frolic

(52,985 posts)
4. When financial underpinnings of the Trump economy are worse than AI growth prospects
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:07 PM
8 hrs ago

We are headed for a cyclical recession (which we really haven't seen since 1973-75), a stagflation recession and inflation, but it's mitigated by the growth in AI prospects. But unemployment I would bet will double in the recession. I think we'll know a lot more by April 2026.

OC375

(314 posts)
5. Up 20k points since 2019
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:16 PM
8 hrs ago

A correction is long overdue. It's growth is absurd, given the state of the real world. I'm guessing when the consumer credit fueling it all is throughly spent, something will happen. When there aren't enough people left to fire at enough companies, to get a sufficiently happy quarterly report... people will head for the exits.

Karma13612

(4,853 posts)
6. I switched my 401K from a retirement target date fund
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:41 PM
7 hrs ago

to a money market fund made up mostly of cash back in Mid-November 2024.

Once it was evident Trump was President Elect I called it quits. I’m 71 and could see that a big dip in my meager investment account would be devastating. I’m quickly approaching the age where I have to take a mandatory minimum distribution. If I was faced with a heavily reduced balance due to a market correction, I would be screwed both ways.

I earn a tiny bit of interest each month, and I don’t worry about the bottom dropping out.



KentuckyWoman

(7,318 posts)
17. I laddered CDs
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 09:16 PM
5 hrs ago

Every 3 months one comes due. 3 to 5% is better than losing it all. There is not much to lose but without it, I live under a bridge.

I did keep a little bit of stock.

Not the fanciest set up but I sleep at night

Karma13612

(4,853 posts)
21. Yes, I am looking
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 10:37 PM
3 hrs ago

at the laddering as well.
I have a teenie bit in 2 CD’s with different maturity dates thru my local bank.

I might start pulling more over into similar CD’s as time goes by.

Yea, I’m not losing sleep over my 401K but plenty of other excuses to keep me up.

I hate what is happening in this country. It just shouldn’t be like this.

Have a good evening, where ever you are

Dave says

(5,276 posts)
26. You could get an FDIC-protected CD and ...
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:01 PM
3 hrs ago

… get 3-4% or better.

I rebalanced to 50/50 when I retired in 2021. It’s been pretty consistent: I get about 60% of the gain but only 50% of the drops. No telling what will happen going forward, though.

GoodRaisin

(10,609 posts)
37. Same here.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 02:23 AM
8 min ago

I’ll be okay as long as I hold on to what I have, but can’t say the same if I get greedy and swallowed up by a bubble burst at 73.

DBoon

(24,433 posts)
7. a sign of extreme wealth inequality
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 06:44 PM
7 hrs ago

While most people have no financial assets at all (aside from a mortgaged home), the top 1% have done amazingly well for themselves. You can only buy so many yachts, luxury vacation homes, and sports cars, so the wealth chases a small number of investments. The price of these investments thus keeps going up as demand outstrips supply.

Response to Chasstev365 (Original post)

ProfessorGAC

(74,989 posts)
9. Great Points
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 07:20 PM
7 hrs ago

I'll add that the AI exuberance assumes a winner-take-all scenario.
I see such an outcome extremely unlikely. There may be ultimate winners (plural) but with distributed market share, none of the companies will achieve the potential driving the current pricing.
As to other elements of S&P, I always keep an eye on P&G because I worked on multiple projects with them during my xareer. Their stock is down 11% over the last 12 months. This is an $85 billion revenue company with multiple markets & their stock is down that much.
Geez, Exxon is down 0.8% in the last year. A petro company!

Melon

(841 posts)
31. Exxon is down because oil is down.
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:31 PM
3 hrs ago

The US is pumping record volumes and depressing oil prices. I’d stay clear along with chemical companies for a bit.

Melon

(841 posts)
19. This is absolutely not true. Every section (11 in total) are all up this year
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 09:38 PM
4 hrs ago

Just a tidbit. It’s always risky historically to be out of the market.

Information Technology: +23%
Communication Services: +25%
S&P 500 overall: +15%
Utilities: +18%
Industrials: +18% (as of October 29)

D_Master81

(2,268 posts)
10. Whenever the AI bubble bursts
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 07:35 PM
6 hrs ago

80% of all the stock market gains this year are in AI. If you’re doing the look at all the top companies anymore it’s all tech, tech and more tech. This isn’t a healthy economy and market. It’s all being driven by 1 sector and 1 sector alone, AI. And to be honest even that all is bull shit. Watch some videos on YouTube about how like 8 companies are just circulating the same $100 billion to each other and driving up their valuations off it. If/when all that comes crashing down, unfortunately the entire market will go down with it because the market has only went up the past 18 months because of AI

Fiendish Thingy

(21,235 posts)
11. Just about anything could spook investors
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 07:58 PM
6 hrs ago

Remember we had a major dip earlier this year in the spring, and the markets rebounded.

Confirmation of a recession could cause a pullback and sell off. So could some significant political event, like Mamdani winning (although that is expected by most), Trump invoking the Insurrection Act, etc.

Investors have learned to expect volatility during the Trump era, but it is the unexpected events within the investment world itself- crypto crashing, gold plummeting, AI imploding- that could bring the biggest drop.

fujiyamasan

(813 posts)
12. Who knows? Timing the market is a fool's errand
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 08:02 PM
6 hrs ago

If I knew, I’d be shorting the market or buying puts like in the Big Short (great book and movie btw). Some said buying the dip in April would be catching a falling knife, instead it came roaring back. But over the next few months, who knows? Trump will likely say more stupid shit, call for new tariffs, launch a war, call for martial law. The list is endless.

Manage your savings according to your own age and risk tolerance.

edhopper

(36,747 posts)
13. 80% of the run up
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 08:02 PM
6 hrs ago

This year is AI companies. It's a bubble. At some point it will pop, and Trump is wrecking the rest of the economy.
I'd say sometime in 2026.

Johonny

(24,948 posts)
23. I am assuming rate cuts and Ai job trimming
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 10:40 PM
3 hrs ago

Keeps tech bubble inflating until 2026. But this shutdown is eventually going to slow the economy and the country to a scrawl.

pat_k

(12,186 posts)
32. Yep. As Prof G describes, America is essentially an all in bet on AI, with circular deals artificially inflating values
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:33 PM
2 hrs ago

No Mercy No Malice @profgalloway
Scott Galloway
How Does the End Begin
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/

He's not giving financial advice, but he did mention what he'd been doing in Oct 15th's Raging Moderates podcast:

This is not financial advice, because this is a political show, but what I am actually doing with my own personal finances is I'm rotating out of U.S. and tech stocks into European and Latin American stock. So, you always want to be in the market. You want to be in low-cost funds. But America is the largest economy in the world right now. I think it is accurate to say it's a bet on AI and the sustained crazy, frothy market valuations. I definitely think we could see a significant draw-down here that would have global implications.

Johonny

(24,948 posts)
22. Today was a nutty day
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 10:39 PM
3 hrs ago

Meta dropping, Google booming, rate cut . . .

Stocks probably have room to run so long as tech trades jobs for Ai hence increase profits short term.

jmbar2

(7,405 posts)
27. There is so much global wealth sloshing around, it has to go somewhere
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:06 PM
3 hrs ago

They're buying up everything that they think will go up - real estate, farmland, stocks, bonds, gold. Not only the wealthy, but 401K and pension funds. Hard to say how long it can go on, but with so much money, perhaps longer than we think.

pat_k

(12,186 posts)
28. Don't know when, but Prof G sets out how the end will begin:
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:09 PM
3 hrs ago

No Mercy No Malice @profgalloway
How Does the End Begin
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/

The article is a must read for details, but he also discussed this in Oct 15th's Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway & Jessica Tarlov (wherever you get your podcasts). An excerpt from that:

Essentially, America is a giant bet on AI right now. And I continue to believe that the most dangerous metric ever invented was the NASDAQ and the Dow and the S&P indexes. Because the S&P being up 14%, I believe, has provided cloud cover for Trump’s actions. And that is, America has become so much about stuff, specifically, your ability to acquire stuff versus character versus family versus patriotism. That as long as the markets continue to go up and people are under the impression that they are going to have more money, and can access cheap calories and access Netflix -- that if the market is up 14%, that must mean the president on the whole is doing something right.

And essentially, the reason the market is up 14% is that 75% plus of the market's gains come from 10 companies led by NVIDIA. And now Jensen is implementing a series of circular, kind of incestuous deals that feel very like a late stage 99 to me. If the market has been down 14%, I believe that Trump wouldn't have the cloud cover to go into Portland...(more on attempts to bury Epstein as a driver of events)

Jensen Huang (NVIDIA), Sam Altman (OpenAI), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), and the continued march of the magnificent 10 is the cloud cover for the administration.
...
And what we have now is an economy that is looking increasingly fragile because you have 10 companies representing 40% of S&P by value. The S&P represents 50% of the total market value capitalization. I'm writing about it this week for my No Mercey, No Malice newsletter.

And I think this is how the end begins. And that is all these circular deals.

So, NVIDIA invests 100 billion in Open AI with the agreement they're going to take that 100 billion and invest it back in NVIDIA chips. 100 billion in incremental business to NVIDIA creates 55 billion in operating margin -- they have 55 points of operating margin, or 55 billion in earnings times a PE of 50. That's like a 1.4 trillion technical increase in notional valuation off of a hundred billion dollar investment.

AOL was pulling this sleight-of-hand back in the late 90s, investing in ecommerce companies in exchange for them spending all that money on AOL, such that they could continue to report growth that justified what was an exceptional artificially inflated valuation. This is late-stage 99 circular deals.

There's an amazing graph put together by Bloomberg showing that these deals have now become very popular.

So, what happens here, the string or the rope that gets pulled is there's more research; there are more reports from big companies saying the adoption layer, if you will, is not taking off the way we thought. That is, companies that have signed up for AI made huge investments, but they're not seeing the ROI they had expected. So, if they announce a pullback in spending, NVIDIA gets cut in half -- and effectively, if you have the magnificent 10 cut in half. The magnificent 10 could get cut in half -- they still wouldn't look cheap, but that would be a 20% decline in the value of the S&P, and a 10% decline in the total market cap of all stocks globally. And that would disproportionally -- I don't want to say hurt, because they are pretty resilient -- but it would disproportionally affect the top 10% who are now responsible for 50% of consumer spending. Which again, see above, makes a fragile or anti-resilient economy.

And the thing about rich people is that when they make money, it's great because they can spend a lot more because of the effect of the stock market. But the downside is that wealthy people can take their spending down 20%, 30%, 40%. Middle class homes can't take their spending down that much because they are spending money on essentials.

But if the wealthy all feel less wealthy because they wake up and the market is down 20% and some of the tech is down 40%, they can take their spending down 30 or 40%, which would immediately take us into a recession, or a global recession.


So, basically, one thing that is a pretty sure bet is that 5 Trillion dollar valuation NVIDIA just reached is the result of circular deals that have massively, and artificially, inflated the value.


https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/

usonian

(21,962 posts)
33. Yes, it's a bubble. Money chasing money, and the "best outcome" I can see for AI is in specialized verticals, where it's
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:45 PM
2 hrs ago

trained on very specific data. And the rest just sediments. "Free AI forever with our phone"

You might compare it to salesforce. An entrerprise kind of thing. Profitable, but not trillions.

It's holding up an economy in downfall.

Period.

I'll start redeeming some of the smallish risky mutual fund I own. Just so I don't yo-yo like last time. It's almost back to its peak.

It's taxable, so dribs and drabs.

The rest is in the "Bank of Serta" for the most part.

Here's the TLDR:

Quixote1818

(31,099 posts)
35. AI companies are reporting huge profits. It's a bubble but kinda different from 1999.
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 11:55 PM
2 hrs ago

We have a K-shaped economy: AI/tech/capital-rich firms soaring while much of the rest of the economy lags. The good news: if you’re positioned in the winners you benefit. The risk: if the bubble in the winners bursts, the fallout could drag the broader economy and deepen the divide. The 2025 market is a bubble in parts (AI semis, small AI plays), but it’s built on real earnings and demand, not vaporware. Any “crash” will likely be shallower, more selective, and spread over a longer time frame, less like the dot-com implosion, more like the 1973–74 tech digestion or 2022 mini-bear.

Doodley

(11,453 posts)
36. When all the missing economic data is finally released, and it's horrific even with manipulation.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 01:57 AM
34 min ago
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