General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhen does the Stock Market Crash?
Every time there are warning signs about the economy, the market still goes up. We know billionaires are pumping money in to keep it artificially high, but its a house of cards. What will cause the coming crash?
Jerry2144
(3,039 posts)Not sure how. But it will be yet another stupidly destructive thing this Stable Genius does.
PatSeg
(51,304 posts)to how much he can screw things up. He has a lifetime of experience and he only gets better at it with age.
MichMan
(16,163 posts)I'm assuming they took all their money out of it a long time ago.
Fiendish Thingy
(21,235 posts)Just spoke with my advisor last week and he said they have been rebalancing all portfolios to keep them from getting overweighted with tech funds.
Moving to cash or money market now might feel like the safe thing to do, but timing the market is a fools errand. Cash/Money market accounts will never keep up with even mild inflation, and if we enter a recession as expected, inflation could hit double digits. You might lose money on paper, but inflation will eat away at the purchasing power of your cash.
Our portfolio has survived the crashes of 1987, 2001 dot com bust, 2008 GFC, and COVID, and recouped the losses (which were always less than the DOW/S&P drops) and went on the make significant gains. Some years were nail biters, but we stayed the course and are better off for it.
We are retired now (left work just before COVID), and maintain a moderate risk portfolio of 60/40 stock/bonds.
CanonRay
(15,727 posts)Never panic
bucolic_frolic
(52,985 posts)We are headed for a cyclical recession (which we really haven't seen since 1973-75), a stagflation recession and inflation, but it's mitigated by the growth in AI prospects. But unemployment I would bet will double in the recession. I think we'll know a lot more by April 2026.
OC375
(314 posts)A correction is long overdue. It's growth is absurd, given the state of the real world. I'm guessing when the consumer credit fueling it all is throughly spent, something will happen. When there aren't enough people left to fire at enough companies, to get a sufficiently happy quarterly report... people will head for the exits.
Karma13612
(4,853 posts)to a money market fund made up mostly of cash back in Mid-November 2024.
Once it was evident Trump was President Elect I called it quits. Im 71 and could see that a big dip in my meager investment account would be devastating. Im quickly approaching the age where I have to take a mandatory minimum distribution. If I was faced with a heavily reduced balance due to a market correction, I would be screwed both ways.
I earn a tiny bit of interest each month, and I dont worry about the bottom dropping out.
no_hypocrisy
(53,583 posts)KentuckyWoman
(7,318 posts)Every 3 months one comes due. 3 to 5% is better than losing it all. There is not much to lose but without it, I live under a bridge.
I did keep a little bit of stock.
Not the fanciest set up but I sleep at night
Karma13612
(4,853 posts)at the laddering as well.
I have a teenie bit in 2 CDs with different maturity dates thru my local bank.
I might start pulling more over into similar CDs as time goes by.
Yea, Im not losing sleep over my 401K but plenty of other excuses to keep me up.
I hate what is happening in this country. It just shouldnt be like this.
Have a good evening, where ever you are
Dave says
(5,276 posts)
get 3-4% or better.
I rebalanced to 50/50 when I retired in 2021. Its been pretty consistent: I get about 60% of the gain but only 50% of the drops. No telling what will happen going forward, though.
Karma13612
(4,853 posts)Yes, Im continuing to tweak!
GoodRaisin
(10,609 posts)Ill be okay as long as I hold on to what I have, but cant say the same if I get greedy and swallowed up by a bubble burst at 73.
DBoon
(24,433 posts)While most people have no financial assets at all (aside from a mortgaged home), the top 1% have done amazingly well for themselves. You can only buy so many yachts, luxury vacation homes, and sports cars, so the wealth chases a small number of investments. The price of these investments thus keeps going up as demand outstrips supply.
Response to Chasstev365 (Original post)
Midnight Writer This message was self-deleted by its author.
ProfessorGAC
(74,989 posts)I'll add that the AI exuberance assumes a winner-take-all scenario.
I see such an outcome extremely unlikely. There may be ultimate winners (plural) but with distributed market share, none of the companies will achieve the potential driving the current pricing.
As to other elements of S&P, I always keep an eye on P&G because I worked on multiple projects with them during my xareer. Their stock is down 11% over the last 12 months. This is an $85 billion revenue company with multiple markets & their stock is down that much.
Geez, Exxon is down 0.8% in the last year. A petro company!
Melon
(841 posts)The US is pumping record volumes and depressing oil prices. Id stay clear along with chemical companies for a bit.
Melon
(841 posts)Just a tidbit. Its always risky historically to be out of the market.
Information Technology: +23%
Communication Services: +25%
S&P 500 overall: +15%
Utilities: +18%
Industrials: +18% (as of October 29)
Midnight Writer
(24,930 posts)D_Master81
(2,268 posts)80% of all the stock market gains this year are in AI. If youre doing the look at all the top companies anymore its all tech, tech and more tech. This isnt a healthy economy and market. Its all being driven by 1 sector and 1 sector alone, AI. And to be honest even that all is bull shit. Watch some videos on YouTube about how like 8 companies are just circulating the same $100 billion to each other and driving up their valuations off it. If/when all that comes crashing down, unfortunately the entire market will go down with it because the market has only went up the past 18 months because of AI
Fiendish Thingy
(21,235 posts)Remember we had a major dip earlier this year in the spring, and the markets rebounded.
Confirmation of a recession could cause a pullback and sell off. So could some significant political event, like Mamdani winning (although that is expected by most), Trump invoking the Insurrection Act, etc.
Investors have learned to expect volatility during the Trump era, but it is the unexpected events within the investment world itself- crypto crashing, gold plummeting, AI imploding- that could bring the biggest drop.
fujiyamasan
(813 posts)If I knew, Id be shorting the market or buying puts like in the Big Short (great book and movie btw). Some said buying the dip in April would be catching a falling knife, instead it came roaring back. But over the next few months, who knows? Trump will likely say more stupid shit, call for new tariffs, launch a war, call for martial law. The list is endless.
Manage your savings according to your own age and risk tolerance.
edhopper
(36,747 posts)This year is AI companies. It's a bubble. At some point it will pop, and Trump is wrecking the rest of the economy.
I'd say sometime in 2026.
Johonny
(24,948 posts)Keeps tech bubble inflating until 2026. But this shutdown is eventually going to slow the economy and the country to a scrawl.
Blue Full Moon
(2,965 posts)hunter
(40,108 posts)... goes up like this:
pat_k
(12,186 posts)No Mercy No Malice @profgalloway
Scott Galloway
How Does the End Begin
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/
He's not giving financial advice, but he did mention what he'd been doing in Oct 15th's Raging Moderates podcast:
Johonny
(24,948 posts)Meta dropping, Google booming, rate cut . . .
Stocks probably have room to run so long as tech trades jobs for Ai hence increase profits short term.
krawhitham
(5,030 posts)Captain Zero
(8,578 posts)It's always been a popular month for this.
jmbar2
(7,405 posts)They're buying up everything that they think will go up - real estate, farmland, stocks, bonds, gold. Not only the wealthy, but 401K and pension funds. Hard to say how long it can go on, but with so much money, perhaps longer than we think.
pat_k
(12,186 posts)No Mercy No Malice @profgalloway
How Does the End Begin
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/
The article is a must read for details, but he also discussed this in Oct 15th's Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway & Jessica Tarlov (wherever you get your podcasts). An excerpt from that:
And essentially, the reason the market is up 14% is that 75% plus of the market's gains come from 10 companies led by NVIDIA. And now Jensen is implementing a series of circular, kind of incestuous deals that feel very like a late stage 99 to me. If the market has been down 14%, I believe that Trump wouldn't have the cloud cover to go into Portland...(more on attempts to bury Epstein as a driver of events)
Jensen Huang (NVIDIA), Sam Altman (OpenAI), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), and the continued march of the magnificent 10 is the cloud cover for the administration.
...
And what we have now is an economy that is looking increasingly fragile because you have 10 companies representing 40% of S&P by value. The S&P represents 50% of the total market value capitalization. I'm writing about it this week for my No Mercey, No Malice newsletter.
And I think this is how the end begins. And that is all these circular deals.
So, NVIDIA invests 100 billion in Open AI with the agreement they're going to take that 100 billion and invest it back in NVIDIA chips. 100 billion in incremental business to NVIDIA creates 55 billion in operating margin -- they have 55 points of operating margin, or 55 billion in earnings times a PE of 50. That's like a 1.4 trillion technical increase in notional valuation off of a hundred billion dollar investment.
AOL was pulling this sleight-of-hand back in the late 90s, investing in ecommerce companies in exchange for them spending all that money on AOL, such that they could continue to report growth that justified what was an exceptional artificially inflated valuation. This is late-stage 99 circular deals.
There's an amazing graph put together by Bloomberg showing that these deals have now become very popular.
So, what happens here, the string or the rope that gets pulled is there's more research; there are more reports from big companies saying the adoption layer, if you will, is not taking off the way we thought. That is, companies that have signed up for AI made huge investments, but they're not seeing the ROI they had expected. So, if they announce a pullback in spending, NVIDIA gets cut in half -- and effectively, if you have the magnificent 10 cut in half. The magnificent 10 could get cut in half -- they still wouldn't look cheap, but that would be a 20% decline in the value of the S&P, and a 10% decline in the total market cap of all stocks globally. And that would disproportionally -- I don't want to say hurt, because they are pretty resilient -- but it would disproportionally affect the top 10% who are now responsible for 50% of consumer spending. Which again, see above, makes a fragile or anti-resilient economy.
And the thing about rich people is that when they make money, it's great because they can spend a lot more because of the effect of the stock market. But the downside is that wealthy people can take their spending down 20%, 30%, 40%. Middle class homes can't take their spending down that much because they are spending money on essentials.
But if the wealthy all feel less wealthy because they wake up and the market is down 20% and some of the tech is down 40%, they can take their spending down 30 or 40%, which would immediately take us into a recession, or a global recession.
So, basically, one thing that is a pretty sure bet is that 5 Trillion dollar valuation NVIDIA just reached is the result of circular deals that have massively, and artificially, inflated the value.
https://www.profgalloway.com/how-does-the-end-begin/
usonian
(21,962 posts)trained on very specific data. And the rest just sediments. "Free AI forever with our phone"
You might compare it to salesforce. An entrerprise kind of thing. Profitable, but not trillions.
It's holding up an economy in downfall.
Period.
I'll start redeeming some of the smallish risky mutual fund I own. Just so I don't yo-yo like last time. It's almost back to its peak.
It's taxable, so dribs and drabs.
The rest is in the "Bank of Serta" for the most part.
Here's the TLDR:

lapfog_1
(31,365 posts)but I cannot.
Quixote1818
(31,099 posts)We have a K-shaped economy: AI/tech/capital-rich firms soaring while much of the rest of the economy lags. The good news: if youre positioned in the winners you benefit. The risk: if the bubble in the winners bursts, the fallout could drag the broader economy and deepen the divide. The 2025 market is a bubble in parts (AI semis, small AI plays), but its built on real earnings and demand, not vaporware. Any crash will likely be shallower, more selective, and spread over a longer time frame, less like the dot-com implosion, more like the 197374 tech digestion or 2022 mini-bear.