served at the pleasure of the President.

So if you are counting chickens, let's be very honest about who bears ultimate responsibility.

being a man of honor and knowing the President should never interfere with the DOJ, kept his hands off.
Garland was accepted as a good pick. He turned out to be the wrong man in the wrong place.

The "wrong man in the wrong place" could be applied upwards as well, given that Biden's temporary victory against Trump may have inflamed Trump's worst impulses.

Garland was accepted as a good pick. He was well-respected, but he probably got the gig out of patronage following the Supreme Court fiasco.

His boss was charged with protecting American democracy from Trump. In that capacity they failed. And it is they.

hopefully it was only because he feared Trump or because he was incompetent. I hope to heck he wasn't complicit.

He was appointed, confirmed, and retained. He had a boss. The boss bears responsibility. The boss is not absolved.

Reading someone who's going to "keep pushing" the same statement over and over (and OVER) is not helpful.

How would I like to see Kirschner, somebody who could attack him wasn't scared to do it.JMHO

And the optical "it'll look bad" isn't a defense. You can't defend democracy with a paper shield.

Hands off DoJ has been the mantra of every administration short of Tricky Dick and Trump. I agree Biden should have pushed him out, but for an administration that plays by the rules, that's not as easy as you make it out to be. Otherwise, WE'RE putting our great big dirty thumb on the scales of justice.

Unfortunately, we're now in a position where that HAS to be done, if we ever get out of this mess. If a Dem manages to take the White House in 2028, we've got to burn these bastards to the ground. Perceptions be damned.

The party is so afraid of actually looking like they have an aggressive bone in their body, they spend all their energy trying to deny it. In times of Peace, this is a good thing. But when we're in war for our very existence, it doesn't help anything. No one is impressed that we "took the high ground." It looks weak... like we're afraid to take on the repuglicans. No matter how much we, the unwashed masses, pleaded with our representatives, they failed us. And now, here we are... exactly where we said a decade ago we'd be.

I DO hold him responsible for Garland and at least one other bad decision. Zero problem with that. Next? 🤷‍♂️

Maybe. For me, it was a highly significant failure. On the pie chart of things that had to happen post Trump 1, the January 6 stuff was a big chunk. So it is quality of the mistake, not quantity. This was a bad one. Yeah the Attorney General is responsible for prosecuting cases, but the President should be responsible for preserving democracy.

couldn't afford to have fucked around with. It was arguably the most critically important appointment that the president made in that term, and he totally fucked it up, and our country will be paying the price for that for decades if not longer.

People at the top failed to take the threat to our country seriously, even after watching the events of J6 unfold. Acting like we were still acting under politics as usual was a fatal mistake.

It means that all we got out of the 2020 election was a 4 year reprieve in the slide to fascism.

I get livid when I think about it.

While trump deserved everything, including a firing squad, didn’t work for us.

Garland was a disaster.

to appoint THREE supreme court judges, along with judges like Canon.

They demonstrated they were NEVER going to allow trump to be convicted of anything.

and in spite of people knowing the Supreme Court was at stake in 2016, Hillary lost every critical swing state by less than 1% in that election, while Jill Stein received 1% of the vote in those swing states. It didn't take much.

to appoint a a Supreme Court justice was RBG. By refusing to retire at a time when she would have been guaranteed to have her replacement chosen by Obama. In spite of her advanced age and having at least two types of cancer.

But yes, our side has a tendency to not think about things like SCOTUS appointments during elections and we all end up screwed because of it. The other side has had a single minded focus on SCOTUS for a long time.

to appoint a Supreme Court nominee. McConnell successfully blocked President Obama's Supreme Court nominee for over a year by refusing to hold hearings or a vote, and it is naive to believe that that they would not have done the same thing if RBG stepped down doesn't cut it, especially given that the republicans had the majority in the Senate from the 2014 midterm election.

I am sorry but that is a false narrative that was used by some who refused to vote for Hillary in the general election in 2016.

In every critical swing state Hillary lost by less than 1%, while Jill Stein received 1% of the vote in those critical swing states.

The result of that disaster was that trump ended up appointing three supreme court justices, plus federal judges such as Canon.

I suspect many who refused to vote for Hilllary in the general election in 2016 did not realize the damage that would done by that lost.

In fact, I was surprised and dismayed when she didn't retire before the 2012 election as Obama getting reelected was by no means guaranteed.

The fact is that it is very rare for the same party to hold on to the presidency for more than two consecutive terms, so it was fairly predictable that a republican would win in 2016. And the republicans retaking the Senate in 2014 wasn't too difficult to foresee either, or their despicable actions upon retaking that body.

There is nothing that RBG would have been able to do for the American people with a few more years on the SCOTUS that wouldn't be massively undone with her successor being chosen by any republican at all, let alone Trump.

Yes, the electorate is bad for not enough of them voting for Hillary and stopping Trump, but it wasn't so unpredictable either, and no excuse for RBG to fail at putting her country first by retiring in a timely fashion.

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2025, 09:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I have not seen hard evidence of this, other than the simple fact that Biden had many opportunities to take some action. He could have ordered Garland to recuse himself, for example.

Biden is from the tradition that says, "No matter what anybody does in office, when you get in, you turn the page. You may have only about 9 months to get your agenda enacted and you shouldn't waste any time on the crimes of your predecessor."

It is the same thing with Obama versus Cheney's war crimes.

There is an argument for that. But the argument against it is that Trump's level of criminality, treason and brazen corruption is completely unprecedented, and will be repeated over and over if not punished.

And that's where we are now. The most brazen criminals are now in charge and may never give up control in our lifetimes.

because he didn't want to look like the deranged grifting maniac before him.

Why there needs to be a change in the Democratic parties leadership and thinking.

If one enters into a street fight determined to fight fair, they will generally be defeated.

judges, along with judges such as canon, who were NEVER going to allow trump to be indicted for anything.

That is the real tragedy.

Obama made no effort to make his rightful appointment to Scalia's vacancy. He could, for example, have sued the Senate, forcing the SCOTUS to make a decision. That very well might have been successful because the court was 4-4 at the time, I believe.

And it was the selfishness and ego of RBG, refusing to give up her seat at a time when she could have been replaced by somewho would carry on her legacy.

The road to hell is paved with lots of good intentions.

to destroy our democratic system and make himself dictator, it probably makes sense to set aside those qualms.

Certainly would have galvanized Repukes and widened the division. Then again, there are times in life where you simply have to make a hard choice, repercussions be damned, because the risks from not making that choice are just too great. Risks such as a 2nd Trump term and perhaps the end of American democracy.

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2025, 09:37 PM - Edit history (1)

I had suggested he had to overcome a department in disarray with many trump supporters unwilling to investigate. Leonnig and Davis alluded to the disarray and the fear of retribution.
Nonetheless, Garland failed to understand the big picture and will be forever maligned as not up to the job.
You deserve acknowledgement.

Trump had his people in the FBI and DOJ who didn't want to investigate Trump.

Biden did not show good judgment or leadership, and now the US and the rest of the world is paying the consequences. The lack of accountability seems to be a characteristic of government. Is it any wonder that our government is held in such low esteem?

He’s a traitor like most pukes.

They apparently were a tag team and in cahoots. The 2 DUers would bully everyone did not agree with them. Many DUers reported them over a 6 month period and they were permanently suspended by DU, thank Dog!!! They were so obnoxious

but their argument was that Garland was OK because President Biden nominated him. I do not blame Joe for nominating him, I thought Garland would be OK. Once Garland showed his reluctance it would have been political suicide to fire him.

There were a few signs about Garland;

1. Rabid Senator Mike Lee asked Krasnov to replace Comey with Garland.

2. 20 Magat Senators voted to confirm Garland.

I thought Biden nominated him because there was little chance someone he’d truly prefer could get confirmed.

If I do I will wear it with a badge of honor.

Okay maybe Clarence Thomas, but how many of you were here for that shiteshow?

But I think failure to pack the court gives it a run for its money. The traitor SCOTUS has fucked us harder than anything else.

And anyone that asserts 'oh well - what's done is done' is just gross.

Garland dicked around negotiating with Trump to please return the stolen documents.

Then we hear what Smith said, that other people have been court martialed for doing much less.

I can still picture the boxes of top secret documents stacked in Trump's shitter.

DOJ/Garland doesn't leak, that was absolutely true. DOJ didn't leak because it didn't have anything to leak.

Did Carol and Aaron mention anything about SCROTUS interference?

but I was yelling at the TV.

There is another possibility, when I was younger I led our small town in stopping powerful people from fracking for gas and stripping for coal on our watershed. I got death threats and I will say that I spent many sleepless nights. We didn't stop them but we put so many restrictions on them that our watershed was protected.

Garland could have gotten death threats, or worse.

It affected what Jack Smith could do, and held him up for a bit.

Garland is the short reason why Dump is in power now!

I haven't seen this much grudge-holding since 2016. Without a time machine, this told-you-so-ing really serves no useful purpose, does it? It changes nothing and only perpetuates distrust and resentment... picking at scabs and opening old wounds that (for many) have nearly been forgotten or healed. Sigh.

Leonnig talked about hoping that prosecutors who were involved in the investigations will step forward and let the American people know the truth. Many people who were involved in investigating Trump have been fired and are having a hard time finding a job. Leonnig said they are forming their own law firm, and there may be a way for them to tell the story.

The truth should not be buried.

Do you also believe that the Epstein files should be buried? Many years have gone by without justice for the victims. Should the victims just let it go?

The OP is a response to the relentless "picking at scabs and opening old wounds" by the Garland defenders. Now that the critics have been proven correct, after they were bashed here for months, now you want to move on.

today, because it was under the trump presidency in 2016 where he appointed those judges such as Canon, three on the supreme court, etc. that insured that trump would NEVER BE CONVICTED.

We are going back to argue about that? Is there anyone here who who refused to vote for Madam Secretary Clinton - (not "Hillary" ffs). I doubt it.

Why don't we just really waste some time and energy and argue about Nader?

This is what they do. Every president has made mistakes and some have cost lives. Korea, Vietnam and interfering in South America. Ready aim fire at toes.

You are absolutely wrong right

scene, and with the help of the Hillary haters who refused to vote for her, we lost the Supreme Court, and the final blow which insured the Supreme Court would be lost for decades on 2024 by those who refused to vote for Harris.

In the end, even with the unnecessary delays Garland imposed, when it finally DID get to the SC, they insured that they WERE NOT GOING TO ALLOW trump TO BE CONVICTED OF ANYTHING.

This whole sad fiasco was written in 2016 with the trump appointed judges such as Canon and three supreme court judges to insure more delays, and protect trump from ANY conviction. It was never going to happen.

That is NOT an excuse for Garland's awful performance as Attorney General, but the damage from those that refused to vote for Hillary, cast the die for what we are going through now.

It sure as hell also doesn't answer why trump won in 2024, in spite of the sociopath inciting the insurrection against our government on January 6, 2020, and during the campaign telling you exactly what he was going to do. That is what Project 2025 was all about.

When ignorance is so much easier.

Will try to read the book

The book is on pre-order.

will be very PO'ed tonight.

NYT, no paywall https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/03/books/review/injustice-carol-leonnig-and-aaron-davis.html?unlocked_article_code=1.yk8.-edP.MLqfG9qVKYSh&smid=url-share

with trump not being convicted.

250 years old, give or take

Who cares if the republic crumbles for the lunatic whims of the festering orange prolapse? The real tragedy would be if anyone spoke ill of dear Attorney General Garland.

he is an honorable man.

nt.

He is a modern day Benedict Arnold

Last edited Tue Nov 4, 2025, 08:02 AM - Edit history (2)

I have mistakenly believed that “ He is not in our party; he was a republican.” but fortunately a DU-er corrected me.

Thanks WizImp. I’m a bit embarrassed but man, this is why I love DU.

Just because you don't like some of the things he did or didn't do don't change the fact that has always been a Democrat. He clerked for Justice Brennan, and worked for the Presidential campaigns for Mondale & Dukakis.

Somehow I had that piece of misinformation firmly implanted in the old grey matter for a very long time.
Genuine thanks for bothering to reply.

I definitely don’t want to spread misinformation

No names were mentioned, the prosecutor only said the "possible charges" that could be made.

All Republicans are scum. No exceptions to that rule.
There is, very literally, not a single Republican I would so much as piss on if they were on fire and I had a full bladder.

I wonder who Garland cares about or is beholden to. Im not sure id place a bet on it, but I definitely would NOT vote against it being someone on the Epstein lists.

I'm quite eager to read this book

Remember the fake electors, when I said that Garland was doing nothing, even after Dana Nessel sent a criminal referral from Michigan, remember? Garland sent Lisa Monaco on TV to say that she was looking at the criminal referral, and that's all she did was look at it.

Lennig also said that the National Archives was showing Garland the fake elector documents and Garland ignored them.

So you felt the need to rub it into those that defended Merrick Garland?
Pretty lame dude, pretty fucking lame.

you felt the need to chastise those, including me?
Like I said dude, pretty fucking lame.

At the time, those of us that felt the need to defend M. Garrick were doing the right thing.
Your OP is not needed, we now realize that we were wrong but we don't need the BS.

nt*

I'd like to read what you are reporting for myself.

Have a link?

We needed a RFK Sr type of Attorney General.

He went relentlessly after Organized Crime when his FBI Director publicly tried to downplay existence of Mafia.
Although, Hoover had meetings with Mafia boss, Frank Costello.

Sidenote: My admiration of Sr is not transferrable to Jr; For whatever reason, Jr. is trying to destroy his family's legacy.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know what he was thinking he was doing.

all this?

Garland is now right up with Barr is the History books, with his world class cockblockery of justice for the American voters and the officers who worked on Jan 6 in Dc and any other person busted for stealing classified documents from the US government and Democracy itself.

*More people than in any other presidential election voted that Loser Trump out and they voted Biden and the DOJ to go after him and put him in jail for his crimes !!!!

Hope Garland's headstone talks about what a traitor to American Justice he really is.

Is any one surprised he is member of the Federalist society and that group has nothing but people trying to rape, pillage and slowly destroy America!!!