We live in a sexist nation

They have ginas.

Harris is black.

too many GD racist misogynists out there. Too bad, cuz she woulda been dynamite, but you can't fix stupid frankly.

... runs deep in the USA

and have some observations, but my thoughts would be unwelcome. It was what it was, and the race was very close. What I wonder about is if Joe Biden had run in 2016. Trump might have never seen the light of day.

I always thought the Clintons were center right,
but good on economics.

I was uncertain about Kamala at first, but I did
grow to like her a lot.

She and Walz were great!

It is even more of an "American Value" than racism.

It is everywhere and it is persistent.

No woman will ever be good enough, no matter how smart, skilled, and knowledgeable.

The one thing a little girl can not dream of growing up to be is President of the United States.

Racism and misogyny are the two biggest problems, sure. But I think racism wins in this unfortunate contest.

Consider the Source

If a woman comes off as strong, as Hillary did against Trump, they are seen by some as a b-word. If a woman comes across as more likable, it is perceived as a weakness. It's a ridiculous double-standard.

I remember when Hillary was running against Obama, I didn't like her. It was stupid of me, as I never really bothered to stop and do research. It was more like, "Well, she rubs me wrong, so her policies must be awful." Stupid of me.

It wasn't until I saw her in the first debate with Obama that my eyes were opened up to how incredibly smart she was. I still wanted Obama to win, but I gained a new respect for Hillary and, over time, I grew to admire her. I learned a lesson from that which I've never forgotten.

As for Kamala, I think she ran into the same predicament of trying to find the right balance. She simply didn't have enough time to find her stride.

Too many people brainwashed by Murdoch and News Corporation propaganda.

Maybe the MAGA nightmare never would have happened.

I liked them enough to vote for them, and would vote for them all over again, but I am not a monolith with the power to singlehandedly decide elections. If I was, Bernie would have been a two-term president, and no Republican would ever see the inside of the White House again.

She had the name recognition, the machine and the superdelegates of the party behind her. Bernie did rather well considering what he was up against.

I voted Hillary in the general - something I would do time and time again.

But if people were so enamored with her, we wouldn't have gotten trump in 2016. You'll never convince me Hillary was worse than trump, but I alone don't have the power to decide elections.

It makes no sense to me how people thought Hillary was worse, but enough people came to that conclusion, and I'm ready to wake up from the nightmare already.

And she got more votes than Trump.

I remember when he won in NH early and started to gain momentum. The talking heads all mentioned Hillary has a Super Delegate lead. The Super D's are not supposed to commit until the convention. I recall watching Rachel Maddow that night saying it didn't matter, Hillary had the SD lead.

His problem is the opposition against the Left.

When a woman laughs, what do you hear? A warm chuckle, a hearty laugh at a shared joke? Or do you hear — a cackle?

There was a moment in each of these women’s campaigns where I heard their laugh described as a cackle, and I knew it for what it was: complete misogyny, fear and loathing of a powerful woman. A depiction straight out of the Brothers Grimm, Shakespeare, and Walt Disney: the Wicked Old Witch brewing up a deadly potion, cackling with glee as she plots to kill children and emasculate men.

and wasn't serious.
Women get thrown in either of those extremes. Not the cool guy or the strong guy - Its the witch or word that rhymes with witch and the bimbo.

Nm

I hope I'm smart enough, old enough and wise enough not to let something like someone's voice dictate their qualifications. i do admit that I think she should work on that aspect of public speaking, but she had the credentials and she deserved my vote.

Kamala and Hillary lost because of insecure, mostly White men who are threatened by strong females. These men influence certain women in their circles - you know, the ones who think "the man" knows best. So, they voted against another woman.

And that's really the answer to your question. All that mattered was that they were born female.

It wasn’t a voter issue. It was a Harris issue. When she spoke, she lost points. That’s it. She didn’t come across as knowledgeable and well spoken. It’s disingenuous not to look back and see where she lost ground that Biden captured. It’s unpopular and everyone here says she was great, but she was not popular as a VP and couldn’t carry it as a President. For me it was her speaking style. She made too many mistakes in messaging trying to say the previous admin didn’t make any mistakes yet trying to convey change. I’m assuming everyone here likely voted straight ticket, but independents made different choices.

Clinton was very knowledgeable and I believe had global respect as a diplomat. They were punching repeatedly at her physical health during that election.

Harris came across as knowledgeable and well-spoken as well as experienced, clear-sighted, honest, aware of the issues, not to mention empathetic, patriotic, and human. Her opponent was the opposite in every way, as well as being a convicted felon, an insurrectionist, a person with the morals of a toad and the temperament of a spoiled toddler.

Hillary Clinton's health was fine.

In both cases it was sexism, plus a conscious choice among voters to accept abject lies.

Not for someone. Harris is not well spoken. That’s the issue. The oft used “word salad” description quoted in the press comes from her speaking pattern. Changing her accent to different groups comes across as condescending. Sayings that just didn’t make a lot of sense.

“You think you just fell out of a coconut tree? You exist in the context of all in which you live, and what came before you.”

These sayings do not resonate with the average voter. We are hard left, but average Joe didn’t not mesh with her. Take a step back and look as an outsider.

You know, vagina? Yeah. Pretty sure that’s it. Vagina.

They don't have a dick to wag around. Some people are more impressed by that than they are brains and hard work.

There are researchers out there that have been pointing to the midwest in particular developing an anti-politician bend - with swing voters voting for the least politics as usual candidate. I personally to be clear VOTED and voted for democratic candidates consistently every election - but I disliked Hillary because I dislike all business as usual career politicians.

But if the alternative is the MAGA insanity, give me the boring status quo, establishment politicians every time.

It's in the hands of a few hundred thousand swing state voters, many of which (in the midwest) will not turn out for establishment politicians. They're not going to turn out for Vance either but neither will they turn out for Cory Booker.

Has been an utter disaster. How about someone who has experience in government?

but you don't have to convince me. You have to convince 100-200k swing state voters that have a deep dislike of establishment candidates - to vote for the boring experienced candidate instead of - just staying home.

Nobody has ever been as well prepared to be President as Hillary Clinton. She had a policy and a strategy worked out for every issue, every problem facing America. That's what we loved about her.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are too stupid to care about policy. Its a popularity contest. Men were threatened by her and some women just do what their husbands tell them to.

We should been so lucky as to have either of them as Pres.

That is all.

You're just playing into a right-wing narrative.

Plenty of people like both of them.

I've lost sleep, peace of mind and hope for our country because too many people got conned in 2016 and again in 2024.

Don't blame me. I voted for both of them, but there had be something that got us in this dystopia.

They may be popular among us, but we're only part of the electorate, not the entire electorate.

The electoral college.

nothing to do with it.

Clinton i think struggled a lot with the history from the 1990s and the general Republican obsession with Bill. And while it shouldn't matter, her voice can be off-putting specifically when she was speaking forcefully in rallies. I think she does so much better in smaller more intimate settings. It's a stupid thing, definitely misogynistic in origin for a lot of people (I also find Trump and Sanders difficult to listen to because of sound sensitivities being very grating).

Harris they tried with the laugh, but I think it was more the general environment than she was unlikable. I think she did better than Biden would have but tried to play a little too much into the being cool with the celebrity endorsements that many Democratic presidential candidates try that Bill Clinton and Obama pulled off effortlessly because they were effortlessly cool.

And this is not personal to you. Your evaluation of Clinton's voice is widespread.

But, jeez. Is there someone out there who thinks that Trump delivers his blither in mellifluous tones?

I can think of few people who you regularly have to listen to who have a more annoying voice than Trump.

As for "effortlessly cool": You honestly think that Trump was way cooler than either H. Clinton or Harris?

If it's about cool, either of them should have crushed the Trump.

You mentioned or referred to Trump more than they

I firmly believe it’s not enough to be just ‘against Trump’ or anti-Trump or whatever. Everyone knows he is a jack wagon

The candidates have to be FOR something, the so called kitchen table issues

I would ask did the winning candidates tonight run against Trump or stand up for the voters and their concerns?

I thought Kamala’s laugh was charming and I believe Hilary would’ve stood up against the Russians and election interference if she were president in 2016

And Harris had the added burden of melanin in the land of the one-drop rule. .

Unfortunately, it was easy for them to attract conservative votes from people who can not visualize a strong female leader in America.

We elected a Black man, for God’s sake, despite the firehose of racist sewage aimed at him. Yes, Barack Obama is brilliant — but above all, he is a man.

Hillary Clinton was massively qualified for the job. Just contemplate her resume for a minute. A lot of her law school classmates thought she could be President — not necessarily Bill. The Right Wing clearly saw her as a threat from the get-go — they have been using her as a non-stop punching bag and boogyman ever since Bill ran for governor of Arkansas. They will even after she’s in her grave (may that be decades from now) .

Kamala Harris is not so much a mixed-race woman as she is — a woman. She’s qualified, my God is she qualified, a hundred times more than Trump. She, like Hillary, lost by the narrowest of margins — but a loss is a loss, and we all lost.

I don’t like it. It’s been devastating. I’m pretty old, and there have been times I could just see the goal in sight. I loved Obama, and I thought the fact that we elected him twice was a sign that we as a nation were growing up. Apparently not so much. And as for a woman president — after experiencing Trump and MAGA, I don’t think I’ll get to see that happen. You’ll have to make it happen.

DUers periodically bring up the fact that other countries end up with female leaders. But afaict all or nearly all are in parliamentary systems, which operate differently than our system in crucial ways, coalitions and compromises among them.

...what was 'off-putting was the was those kind of judgments taking precedence over what the Americans need like the election was some sort of high school class president contest. That fucking worked like a charm, and people who engaged in that gossipy bullshit need to take responsibility for engaging in THAT self-sabatoging inanity instead of campaigning against Trump.

People need to stop this shit. It's not advocacy for the people, it's navelgazing.

I did see a few pretend libs like Sirota today, talking out of the side of his mouth about what he imagines is whatever he means when he calls people 'liberal,' running these Democrats down like he just got marching orders from republican operatives.

What is this Hillary/Kamala hate all about anyway, other than just Hillary/Kamala hate? Who fucking cares?

We have women who have run and won right in front of us tonight and this is what's supposed to matter?

Someone hates Kamala's laugh? I can't tell you how much I revile the way that got put out there for us us to parrot that misogynistic bull, and the way so many obliged like my life and the lives of so many others invested in beating Trump didn't matter at all.

I'm thrilled we won big tonight. I have voted straight Democratic for years and 2024 was no different.

I'm not saying I was put off by Kamala's laugh, but many seemed to be. I speak not for myself but am simply in astonishment THAT was off putting to certain people but all of trump's nonsense was not.

...is is too hard for people to fucking vote for the Democrat, the opponent of the facsist asshole and his cultist republican party without promoting gossipy prattle about our own candidates like that act is some sort of messaging genius?

I would’ve cast my vote for President Biden if he was in a literal vegetative state last year over trump.

You won’t find a bigger trump hater on the planet than this one right here. I’ve always been a liberal, but MAGA has pushed me further left than any Democrat ever could.

I think trump is one of the worst things to ever happen to this country, but despite him having no redeeming features, where did we go wrong that he got into the White House twice?

If it were solely up to me, Hillary would’ve won in 2016, Kamala would’ve won last year, but what was wrong with them that other people preferred what we have now? That’s a genuine question on my end, not trying to stir anything up.

...as you answered in your op.

Factually, it's a canard. People did not get the assignment, despite assertions to the contrary.

1)Decades of anti-Clinton rhetoric
2)Russian propaganda
3)Her Warhawking
4)Rejection of "third way" triangulation
5)Racism (Obama backlash)
6)Sexism

Kamala lost because of

1)Inflation
2)Media propaganda/the Right's takeover of social media & further media consolodation
3)The timing of the Biden decision
4)Racism
5)Sexism

They didn't lose.

That’s the DU feedback for expressing personal opinions on why a candidate is not suitable for being President/VP. This site will never be where you can express a counter opinion without others getting hurt feels and countering with their obvious correct opinion. Critical post election critique is not acceptable.

I’m trying to do a reflection on how we got to this point twice.

Mikie outperformed Kamala in New Jersey tonight, and by a nice margin. We won big. Why didn’t we win last year?

What my opinion is is not the same as what other people thought, but I think it’s worth asking.

Or they blame Trump etc. versus actually looking at the faults of the candidates.

Healthcare was a major issue for her, and the insurance and pharma companies went after her and never let up for thirty years. She was right about the "vast right wing conspiracy" against her....

And a quarter of a billion musk bucks

A Dominican woman that I exercise in proximity to often at the Y was 100% sure that she was an actual witch because she saw a video and thought it was true. Some people are stupid not prepared to deal with it, AI is powerful, and we are almost defenseless against it at scale.

Everybody knows she didn’t have enough time


Etc

unlikeable v. worse than Trump.

I voted for both Clinton and Harris.

I wasn't thrilled with either. Clinton is too much of a politician - her views changed with the political winds, and she was too willing to be part of the war machine. Harris was tone-deaf on pocketbook economy and Palestine and failed to distance herself from Biden on those two issues. I think she may have had different views - but was reluctant to criticize the president for whom she served as vice president..

That said, I'm unlikely to be thrilled with any candidate from the two major parties, and the reality is that no one outside of the two major parties will become president in the foreseeable future. And both were clearly better than Trump.

But if more people found them likable, maybe we wouldn’t be stuck with MAGA dystopia.

I absolutely, beyond any doubt, think both were easily better than the felon, but if more people thought the same way, maybe we wouldn’t be here now.

trump conned people good a year ago. People are obviously sick of his nonsense already with No Kings, with a massive blue tsunami tonight.

However, it never should’ve gotten to this point, and it’ll take decades to undo all the damage he’s done to this country. I sure hope I’m alive to see it.

That has been the key trait that wins.

In other words, sexism.

Hilary beat Bernie Sanders. Biden won. I suggest that voice can win.

Bush was slightly smoother than Gore. I wasn't intending to comment on gender while I acknowledge misogyny was a hindrance to their success.

accomplished, experienced women, one of whom was black,and both of whom had been the object of relentless, hate-filled media attacks and smear jobs, in one case continuing for decades.

bomb threats on election days, the same that pays thousands to RW influencers like rogan.

One was black.
That’s about it.
They were scared of both.
Just like they are frightened of Mamdani.

Algorithms ?






✌🏻

with inadequate offensive response

2016 - Only once in the last 75 years has the same political party won three presidential elections in a row. The only one since 1948 was Bush in 1988.

2024 - A sitting VP has not been elected in over 188 years. Last one was Martin Van Buren in 1836

Prior to that, it was Van Buren.

Hillary and Kamala had to run defending Democratic administrations.

We are clearly a nation that prefers to vote AGAINST something rather than FOR something.

Hillary was quite a bit less liked than Kamala among Dems. Repugs hated them both.

Both new female govs lack baggage. Military credentials help with the machismo aspect.

the "Hillary Model": be a workhorse, not a show horse), popular Secretary of State, in 2013 had 69% approval rating,.in June 2015 had 60-70% approval rating with Democratic voters.

Yet it was repeated over and over and over and over how unpopular she was, unlikeable, untrustworthy. She had the most negative media coverage of anyone, tiny amount of coverage of policy. She went from being caricatured by the Right when First Lady as a radical feminist hippie New Ager to an evil corrupt elite establishment blah blah blah from other directions (her whole history of progress, especially for women and children, erased) that Trump used to attack her as Crooked Hillary and also used the rigging conspiracy theory and copied pseudo populism.

She lost by 79,316 votes in three swing states.

Kamala also, repeating vague insults and lies over and over and over and over and over and over until it sticks. Democratic policy helps working/middles class so attacks are mostly about character.

With Clinton she was a victim of being a woman on national stage for decades the Right had spent decades spinning a narrative that had already infected public discourse.

VP Harris got the double whammy of being a woman and a person of color. That drove the antifeminist and the racist I wont be lead by a non white person voters to the polls. Plus the lies about a Biden and how closely tied she was to him being his vp.

That's it in a nutshell.

Hillary was NOT "so unlikable". She a actually won the popular vote, but James Comey's 11TH hour horseshit depressed enough votes in enough states to make this fucking nightmare our reality. It's why I don't give one-fuck if they throw Comey under a federal prison. There isn't a single circle of Hell that would inflict enough harm on him to equate the harm he has wrought on America...he needs to visit ALL the circles.

Kamala Harris was extremely likeable, but the right threw out enough racist dog whistles, to drive young white Charlie Kirk racist "I deserve a Stepford Wife too" dipshits out of their mom's basement and to the polls. Face it! These young "men" saw an asshole bragging about grabbing young women by the "hoo-haw" and said; "me too"!

They hate a woman telling them what to do, all dudes, all ethnicities, I have worked with. Imo

because they were women.

It's very common that we switch political parties every 4 or 8 years. It's less common that we have a democrat, followed by a different democrat, followed by a different democrat.

When people are unhappy with their own circumstances, they blame whoever is in charge at the time. Sometimes that's fair, sometimes it's not. Economics are complex and some voters don't watch enough unbiased news to understand the difference between Trump destroying the country and hurting low income and middle class Americans, and Biden and Obama inheriting economies that were in terrible shape and rescuing and rebuilding them, which took time.

Hillary Clinton had to run following Obama.

Kamala Harris had to run following Biden.

This is one reason why I don't necessarily discount the idea that we COULD actually run a female presidential candidate in 2028, or a gay presidential candidate, and be successful. I don't think their losses were entirely about how they were perceived as candidates (we all know they were great candidates) and more about people were not happy with the economy, and pinned that on the current president, and they got blamed for it. Right now, the country is REALLY unhappy, and we're seeing that benefit democratic candidates in a major way. Zohran Mamdami, who is a Muslim and not white, just won in NYC, despite all the nastiness republicans could throw at him, along with some cold shouldering from democrats. And he's a progressive!

So I think there were lots of factors that led to them not winning (including misogyny and racism) but I also think what year you run, and the conditions you run in (who was president before you and are they currently destroying the country so you have a really favorable environment to run in), has a big factor.