But it is time to go.

where it is honorable to serve the people well, and it is also honorable to pass the baton to the next generations.

Here is one way to think about it. The whole point is supposed to be about leaving a better place for our children and the next 5 generations. Adulthood/maturity is something like age 30-90. But extremes of youth lack wisdom and the extremes of age tend toward narrow views and less mental and physical energy. Moreover, after about age 70, the younger people have a much, much greater stake in the future, and therefore ought to have the majority of decision-making.

On this basis, I'd say the optimal age for a person entering the national level of politics is 40-50 and we really have to question anybody running after age 70. Even if they are still very capable, they simply don't have a stake in the outcomes that younger people do.

We need to honor those who have served, and I have long felt we should do more to give them a voice in retirement. I would love to see, for example, a Council of Presidents where all the former Presidents and Vice Presidents meet quarterly or semi-annually for a national town hall where they discuss how we are doing as a nation, our big challenges and our big opportunities. Certainly the retired leaders of the House and Senate could be part of this. Not a political debate, but statesmen and women rising above politics to speak honestly about things that are important to all of us.

In Pelosi's case, we should honor her, but it is past time to retire. It is notable that she never endorsed the Democratic candidate for NYC Mayor, which is her right, of course. But she and Cuomo are both from a generation where they want a little progress but not too much progress. Perhaps she decided long ago to retire, but after Tuesday's election, it is clear that we are into a generational change for certain, and we will be electing people who reflect more than the politics of status quo.

Back to the first principle about leaving a better place, well there has been some progress During Pelosi's years, but I don't think anybody can look at the ICE Gestapo in masks and unmarked vehicles kidnapping people in plain sight, armies invading our cities, bulldozers at the White House, a President making billions by pardoning the crook who set him up with crypto riches, a House that hasn't come to work for almost 2 months, the threat to invade 4 countries for no reason simultaneously -- all these things, and still conclude she is leaving with the country in a better place. I do not blame Pelosi individually for this, but her generation of politicians was far too conciliatory while this fascism was gathering energy. I hope Tuesday will be seen as the day that Democrats (and Independents) finally turned the page, saying "No More Status Quo".

Has she ever endorsed a candidate in a local election there?

Her place on the spectrum is abundantly clear. She is much closer to Cuomo than Mamdani.

That is her choice. To me, Mamdani better represents the kind of country I would like to leave to future generations.

I probably will not be around to read the historians' accounts in 2050. But this is what I hope the historians are able to say:

Has Pelosi ever endorsed a candidate for NYC Mayor?

And please provide a link to a credible source.

She clearly preferred Cuomo over Mamdani. She endorsed Cuomo in 2015.

And here is an example of her injecting herself into New York politics in 2019.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/pelosi-rising-tensions-ocasio-cortez-i-ve-said-what-i-n1028876

Stop asking this ridiculous question. She injected herself whenever she felt the urge, and that was her prerogative as Speaker. I don't agree with her on these things, and that is my prerogative.

In my view, her concept of politics was never very useful, although her work as a whip was flawless. We will be much more successful if we have a new generation of leadership that is more willing to stand up to the powerful interests and to fight for things that benefit the average Americans more than the billionaires and corporations. THAT should be the lesson of this election.

And again, I am not attacking Pelosi. She was part of an era that will be good to have in the rear view mirror. Perhaps she did the best that was possible in that era, considering how many people were not willing to take bold positions. I do not blame her for that. But I don't canonize her either, considering that we have lost so much power and the fascists have gained so much in the past 40 years.

Let's agree to thank her for her service, her dignified treatment of the job and her respect for the office, and move on to the next era in our political system, which I hope will be more successful than the last.

You don’t know who she preferred because she never commented about it. In 15 Cuomo wasn’t running for Mayor or anything, there was no Governor’s race that year, so whatever you’re talking about is irrelevant. AOC is a fellow member of the House and didn’t run for Mayor so that’s irrelevant too. You’re the one who dragged the mayor’s race in to this which is unfair grievance shopping.

So either name one time that Pelosi endorsed a candidate for nyc mayor or be honest and admit that there are none.

You’re certainly welcome to focus on the one point where Bluetus isn’t technically correct. Why is this one line so important to you? Is it because you want to fallaciously assert if a person is wrong about one thing in a statement, they are wrong about everything in the statement? I’m guessing your issue has more to do with protecting the status quo in the Democratic Party than any issues about endorsements. Why not just argue for that?

to attack Pelosi. If we don’t stand up for truth, then we are as bad as Trumpers. This was a simple thread about Pelosi retiring and they chose to drag a bunch of other crap into it. The only thing I’m defending the truth. Why are you defending a lie?

You are selective about the truths you stand up for, as we all are. It doesn’t make us as bad as Trumpers. It makes us human, or finite beings at the least. I’m at a loss why you picked this one to dig in so hard you’ve distorted the statement you want to refute. Your replies reeked of gotcha argumentation where the person thinks if they can get someone to admit to be mistaken about one statement, the rest of their statements are probably or necessarily false. This is a favored method of attack by the right. Ask Dan Rather or watch news pundits.
Your second sentence “This was a simple thread about Pelosi retiring and they chose to drag a bunch of other crap into it” is most likely what this is really about.you could have just posted that his is a thread commemorating Pelosi’s long and storied career and that if Bluetus wants to celebrate her retirement, Bluetus should start another thread. You’re replies seemingly were not about defending the truth as much as defending the old guard of the Democratic Party. That is the lie I’m standing up to.
I’m not even sure if I know what bad as a Trumper means. Do you mean as loose with the facts? If so, I am not as bad as a Trumper and don’t believe Bluetus is either.

Again, this was a thread about Pelosi's retirement. You chose to jump in with your overlong manifesto in which you attacked Pelosi for not endorsing Mandani, a candidate in a city she doesn't live, running for an office she has never endorsed a candidate for ever before. That's just dishonestly moving the goalposts to slam someone. Then when asked a simple yes or no question instead of answering honestly, you spun and obfuscated repeatedly.

It’s funny that I have to pretend this is about some virtuous commitment to the truth when it’s really Pelosi vs Mamdani or old guard vs new guard. Bluetus made points about the need for a new guard. If you thought it was inappropriate to criticize Pelosi in this thread, just say so at the start. If you don’t want anyone to discuss the pro and cons of progressive vs more conservative Democratic Party policies, discuss that. There might be some spin in Bluetus’s responses, but I found them perfectly intelligible. I would have answered a simple “not to my knowledge”, really doubt that would have satisfied you because your ultimate grievance doesn’t seem to be just with the statement “It is notable that she never endorsed the Democratic candidate for NYC Mayor, which is her right, of course”, which is obviously true. I grow tired of intraparty partisanship designed to chill speech in the guise of non-partisan adherence to some unattainable deontological epistemology.

Last edited Fri Nov 7, 2025, 05:40 AM - Edit history (3)

and it was due to a completely unfair and unjustified slam on Pelosi. When asked a simple yes or no question they resorted to spin and obfuscation. Finally when pushed they chose to outright lie:

Pelosi never commented publicly on the recent mayoral race, but that doesn’t mean we can’t intuit what her feelings are. That doesn’t mean I think she should have endorsed Mamdani either. I wasn’t trying to take sides. You are definitely free to respond to people as you like, of course within the confines of this site’s rules. I am also free to respond to people within the same restrictions. We are also free to choose what we respond to. I felt that your response was more about respect for Pelosi or the status quo than some knight-like fealty to the truth. You haven’t really responded to the point I was trying to make, that is your choice, and I respect that. Neither of us can expect is people to respond to us the way we’d like. Feel free to respond as you like, but I think like you I’m just repeating myself

You can't intuit someone's feelings about any situation when they never commented on that situation. That is just lying. And it is about the truth. Too many people are being attacked for not endorsing Mamdani even though they don't live in NYC and have never endorsed a candidate of NYC mayor before. I've seen attacks on Obama, Pete Buttigieg and others over this. It's dumb and unfair. Some have even been accused of endorsing Cuomo when they never did

Two false claims were made about Pelosi:

I said "In Pelosi's case, we should honor her, but it is past time to retire. It is notable that she never endorsed the Democratic candidate for NYC Mayor."

That's exactly what I said. and it is 100% accurate, I believe. For an office this important nationally, I think she should have endorsed the Democrat, considering the primary winner was under attack from a disgraced, sexual harasser, former Governor running as an Independent. But I never said Pelosi was not entitled to withhold an endorsement. In fact, I explicitly said it was her right to do that. And it is my right to point that out.

It isn't just Pelosi. A good portion of the old guard, including Hakeem Jeffries whose district lies within the Mayoral boundaries, waited until the last possible moment when the outcome was obvious. I would have thought Jeffries would want to start the relationship out on a positive note. Voters in New York have been willing to replace the old-timers they don't really like. Joe Crowley was a 10-termer and head of the Democratic Caucus when AOC beat him. And a May poll of a hypothetical Senate primary between Schumer and AOC shows her winning. Newsweek comically described this 21-point advantage as "edging out." A poll 18 months ahead of an election means very little. Nonetheless, one would think Jeffries would be a little more politically savvy than this.
https://www.newsweek.com/aoc-edges-out-chuck-schumer-double-digit-margin-new-poll-2076944

You chose to jump in with your overlong manifesto in which you attacked Pelosi for not endorsing Mandani, a candidate in a city she doesn't live, running for an office she has never endorsed a candidate for ever before. That's just dishonestly moving the goalposts to slam someone. Then when asked a simple yes or no question instead of answering honestly, you spun and obfuscated repeatedly.

That it is a disingenuous form of argument.

If you want to discuss something I actually said, please do. Otherwise I have no further response other than to say I stand by what I said (and not what I didn't say.)

Since she’s never endorsed a candidate for mayor ever before, that was unfair and unjustified. When asked a simple yes or no question about it, all you did spin and obfuscate. You’re the one who been disingenuous from the start. This was a thread about Pelosi’s retirement, you chose to hijack it with your manifesto about the state of the party.

Not the other way around. I made a very simple one line post:

which then responded with your manifesto in which you slammed Pelosi for not endorsing Mamdani despite her not living in New York or ever endorsing a candidate for NYC Mayor ever before. When asked the question that required a simple yes or no answer, you responded with another manifesto. Then when pressed to simply answer the original question, you then resorted to lying:

Last edited Thu Nov 6, 2025, 10:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I thought I was simply describing what has happened while she has been around. I explicitly said I do not hold her individually responsible for the things I mentioned. The fascism we have today is a failure of EVERYONE who did not stand up to the fascists early and often, and instead just assumed the system would correct itself. Pelosi was part of that, but just one person among many. And of course, the Republicans must bear more of the responsibility.

The problem, IMHO, is that inside the beltway, there exists a thought process that nothing outside that beltway really matters much, that all they really have to do is make deals with each other inside the Beltway. Let's hope Tuesday's wipe-out elections show people how important it is to serve the American people, not the corporations and billionaires.

Mamdani made many bold proposals. That is what people are craving. His detractors (including many inside the Party whose Primary he won by a mile) called him every name in the book, but that didn't lose him any votes. In fact, it probably helped him. Americans aren't stupid. When they see the rich and powerful belly-aching about Mamdani, that's a pretty good sign that he is onto something important. More of that, please.

You’re expressing public anger at someone who doesn’t share your opinion of Pelosi. Bluetus seemed to provide more of an opinion than an attack. If we can’t be critical of politicians’ actions and statements, there’s really no point to this site. I may be wrong, but I don’t think any politicians feel attacked by criticisms found on this board. It seems that critical analyses deserves rebuttal rather than knee jerk defensiveness about our favorites.

Or is it from something?

I'm hoping you're actually a time-traveler

I thought they were fairly close.

On what basis do you say Pelosi is similar to Cuomo?!

You're just making things up.

2019:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/12/nancy-pelosis-renewed-attacks-on-aoc-arent-just-disrespectful-theyre-dangerous

Since that time, they have both had the good sense to not tangle in public. Pelosi learned that AOC could not be bullied, and they are both better off trying to find common ground.

But the essential difference is that Pelosi was from the generations that viewed the job as making deals for votes whereas AOC, Warren, and many others more progressive view the job from the perspective of making lives better for Americans. They may be addressing the same problems and might end up in the same place, but the perspective is entirely different. Personally I prefer the starting point being "What would be very good for Americans?" versus "What kind of deal can we make?"

It is not a zero sum game where what one side gains the other loses. We can invest in things that lift everyone up, and also generate the economic activity to pay the bills. So I think it should start with the ideas, not the budgets.

You don't have a clue what's really going on between those two strong women. I see it completely differently. I think that Nancy Pelosi has been a mentor to AOC and other young rising stars who have learned a lot from her

Were it up to me, you would have a statue in the rotunda.

jan schakowsky did.

I can only hope whomever runs in her district has as rational and clear-headed approach to governance as she did. Male, female; old, young; black, white... don't really care about the packaging, only what's inside the box.

Will be remembered as the most influential legislator of the last 50 years, at least. She was a masterful leader in the minority, and an equally adept Speaker.

Service to your Country, Madam Speaker 💙

As the hydrogen bombs exploded in the distance? Absolutely one of the most powerful moments in movie history.

But I don't blame her. I am amazed that she stayed the course this long considering the Republican filth she has to deal with in Congress these days.

My favorite is tearing up trump's SOTU speech