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Ol Janx Spirit

(493 posts)
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 01:24 PM Saturday

It doesn't actually make any sense that air traffic controllers are going unpaid.

It is really just a failure of lawmakers to insulate one of the most important pieces of America's economic engine from their own squabbling--and it is totally unnecessary.

There are many things that the federal government does that it really only makes sense for the government to fund and pay for. These things are largely complex and expensive endeavors that involve the "common good" or "general welfare" mentioned in the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution.

The "common defense" of the United States mentioned in both the Preamble and Article I is a classic example of this. National defense is a collective expense we all take on. It is something that is not possible to actually quantify in a way that would make charging individual citizens or states for. How much national defense does a person use in a given day, month, or year? How much national defense does an east coast state or city use compared to a west coast state or city? If there is an incoming ICBM should the question be, "how much has the target area paid for national defense this month?"

While national defense does contribute greatly to economic conditions by providing both the citizenry and the government a stable and safe place in which to operate, that contribution is too enigmatic to truly quantify in a meaningful way. It would be nearly impossible to pay soldiers based on what they do to impact the economy, and it would be even more difficult to figure out whom to charge for those services.

This is not true for air traffic controllers. They perform a valuable service that each air traveler and airline pay for through fees. Each time you buy a plane ticket and each time a plane lands at an airport there is a fee associated--part of which goes to paying air traffic controllers.

While the government is shut down those fees are still being collected--just not paid out to the people keeping you and your family and the billions of dollars of cargo being flown all over the country safe. This makes no sense; and is dangerous and disruptive to a system that should not be beholden to the constraints of how we pay federal workers.

Congress could--and IMO should--create a mechanism by which the FAA still has purview over the system but allows the fees we all pay into a system to keep us all safe and moving around the country to continue to flow to those critical to its function.

Anything less is just playing politics with our lives for no discernable reason.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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leftstreet

(38,208 posts)
1. If they were private contractors, they get paid
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 01:27 PM
Saturday

Our esteemed lawmakers would make sure the money was appropriated and guaranteed. Just like they did with ICE and Trump's Big Fat Beautiful Bill they all gleefully passed

2naSalit

(98,844 posts)
2. Oh, they have a reason...
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 01:29 PM
Saturday

And it has nothing to do with good will or anything remotely similar. In fact, they are aiming at the opposite and none of it has to make sense to any of us because we're the intended victims.

Igel

(37,204 posts)
9. They are considered essential.
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 05:31 PM
Saturday

The rule is that the essential employee is to show up for work but cannot be paid until Congress authorizes the budget their salaries come from. If they want to call in sick, it's supposed to count against their sick leave.

The non-essential employees don't show up for work; they are furloughed.

In both cases, however, they are "made whole" in that when the appropriations happen they are to be paid all their back pay. The essential workers, though, for being essential are still to go to work, with any expense that entails, and cannot get another job because, well, they're full-time employees and that puts a crimp in their availability. Meanwhile, the non-essential employees can stay home (granted, without pay) or get part-time/temp gig if they can find one.

Response to Justice Brandeis (Reply #3)

W_HAMILTON

(9,863 posts)
4. It's not the fault of lawmakers -- it's the fault of Republicans.
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 01:37 PM
Saturday

From Reagan busting the air traffic controller strike and thus destroying its union, to Republicans IN COMPETE CONTROL OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT causing this shutdown to begin with, to the Trump administration MAGA'ing up its policies by removing statements on its websites that furloughed employees would be sure to receive their pay in the event of a shutdown.

Ol Janx Spirit

(493 posts)
5. Yes, that is true, but Democrats have had control of the government many times during that...
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 01:44 PM
Saturday

...period and have not moved to fix this problem either.

I'm as angry at Reagan and MAGA as anyone, but I think in this case both parties have failed. Not equally--I'm not saying that. I am merely pointing out that this does not need to be happening.

W_HAMILTON

(9,863 posts)
6. And Democrats were too busy fixing all the other Republican fuck-ups.
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 03:13 PM
Saturday

Wouldn't it be nice to elect a Democratic administration following a successful Democratic administration to fix every single problem we have rather than a Republican administration that cashes out on broad-based economic success from the Democrat and then runs our country into the ditch and we have to focus our efforts on fixing that first when we regain power?

Ol Janx Spirit

(493 posts)
7. Yes! Yes it would! In my political lifetime that has been the pattern every time.
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 03:43 PM
Saturday

But despite that Democrats still managed to do some good things--like the ACA.

But yes, Democrats having an opportunity to actually enact their agenda after cleaning up the mess left by the latest Republican disaster would be a hugely welcome change.

Apparently the American electorate believes otherwise....

MichMan

(16,263 posts)
12. Since only once in the last 75 years has the same party won three elections in a row, that would be rather unlikely
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 06:11 PM
Saturday

W_HAMILTON

(9,863 posts)
16. Some questions for you, fellow Democratic supporter:
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 09:15 PM
Saturday

- Do you think Reagan/Bush warranted three straight election wins?

- Which do you think would have been better for our country? Reagan/Bush or Clinton/Gore and Obama/Hillary?

- Which would have been better for our country: Bush II or Gore?

- Which would have been better for our country: Trump or Hillary?

PS - Your point just proved mine -- thanks!

Igel

(37,204 posts)
10. Not all countries have air traffic control as a government job.
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 05:35 PM
Saturday
https://www.opb.org/article/2025/06/27/privatizing-air-traffic-control-should-the-u-s-try/

Canada, for instance.

Then there's ....

Still, there are private air traffic controllers working in the U.S. today. Through its Contract Tower Program, the FAA allows airports with limited air traffic to staff their towers with controllers employed by private companies. Just over half of all federal air traffic control towers are contract towers, mostly because they’re at smaller general aviation airports.


Note that this doesn't mean that half of air traffic is controlled by privately employed air traffic controllers.

Ol Janx Spirit

(493 posts)
15. There should be consequences, but IMO putting the flying public at risk should not be one of them.
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 09:06 PM
Saturday

What if one of the consequences of a government shutdown was that your local ER closed? Would it be acceptable that people died in the parking lot? Would it be okay that if you had a heart attack there was no one there to save your life?

There are services that should not be impacted by the petulance of politicians.

MichMan

(16,263 posts)
14. US Senate rejects bill to restore federal worker pay, remains at odds over shutdown
Sat Nov 8, 2025, 06:17 PM
Saturday
WASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. Senate on Friday rejected legislation that would resume paychecks for hundreds of thousands of federal workers during the longest shutdown in U.S. history, as Democrats and Republicans remained at odds over how to reopen the government.

The measure received 53 yes votes to 43 no votes in the Republican-controlled chamber, short of the 60 yes votes it needed to advance. Most Democrats voted against the bill and argued it would give too much discretion to Republican President Donald Trump, who has opted to pay military troops and immigration officers during the shutdown while threatening to withhold pay for other workers.

Three Democratic senators voted for the bill: Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff of Georgia, and Ben Ray Lujan of New Mexico.

Labor unions representing federal workers had urged lawmakers to pass the bill, saying the shutdown that began on October 1 was creating hardship for ordinary Americans.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/us-senate-rejects-bill-to-restore-federal-worker-pay-remains-at-odds-over-shutdown/ar-AA1Q1T8T?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=690fcc6b05ae4f988cbf5798e391ad5c&ei=28
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