I think the Democratic politicians should be more 'arrogant' with their messaging,
and 'LIE' a little more, HELL YES! but the truth was on our side in this instance....


This new CR DID make some minor concessions to Democrats,
mostly about federal workers not losing their jobs,
but not the one we wanted most---
continuing the enhanced covid-era ACA subsidies...

and the House will have to reopen to re-vote on it.



As for myself, I would rather the shutdown went on at least a little longer,
even though I depend on SNAP benefits, and lack of those
would have started to hurt later this month....

people suffering now vs more people suffering later

it sucks but you are correct, the "pro-life Christian party" DOES NOT FUCKING CARE

…you can count on shumer and other dems to concede to repubs

yup

I don’t trust the GOBers to compete their promises! You’re right about what you say, yet Trump wins! Not the case with the citizens! Taxes will go up just give the rich more money!

Remember Trump is going to screw us all!

If there was no shutdown. Now we get all the bad parts of a shutdown and still get yelled at for being sellout do-nothings. I get that hindsight is 20/20 but in hindsight, I don’t think there was much benefit here.

Why would any Democrat watch the news this week, we're going to be destroyed for this.

on the committee to kill the filibuster to allow the CR to pass back in March.

Democrats were prepared to take a stand, every House Democrat voted No except the guy from Maine. Senate Democrats were prepared to vote No.

Passing the CR back in March gave Krasnov everything he wanted, he got to pass his Big Ugly Death Bill that gutted Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, etc. Once the Big Ugly death Bill became law Krasnov didn't need Congress.

Schumer caved in March and got absolutely nothing, that was the time to take a stand.

Trump wanted one thing from Dems. To look weak and bend the knee. He got that. He already had EVERYTHING else.

I'm glad I don't watch any news anymore.

the USA lost. pure and simple.

or the Dems for helping them destroy healthcare? Tough decisions there.

"Declare victory? " I did a spit take!

He just learned he can threaten people by withholding food, and nothing happened

Now in 2025, Orangina is saying,
“I can stand in the middle of the White House and starve 42 million SNAP recipients …”

Trumps numbers are cratering. Pressure on the GOP was mounting. We snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Again.

The real problem is that many don’t understand what this dynamic is really about. Consult George Carlin.

then the votes and the messaging from DC Dems over the past two months up to and including today constitute a complete strategic clusterfuck self-own. How they went about things was completely wrongheaded if this result was inevitable/unavoidable.

And para #2 - knowing people personally who are terrified for their kids?! How hideous is that! 😔

And anyone doing so will be right

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if we have a season 3 in January when the CR expires.

Stable government has never been the goal. It is all about playing the game in Washington. The America voter gets to choose a side and see who is fucking who.

garbage. I'm looking at a huge jump in my premiums since I'm on ACA. I lost my job several months ago thanks to the Dems caving in when they could have shut down the government originally which resulted in DOGE laying me off.

I'm currently staying afloat doing random gig jobs but affording health insurance is going to be hard . It's hard get a job in this current economy and I have tried filling out hundreds of applications and I have had some interviews but no luck. Right now due to the democrats caving in I'm fucked when it comes to insurance. I wanted the democrats to hold out as long as possible even if they had to drag this out for the 2026 elections and then let the country decide which way it wanted to go. I feel they should have set up 2026 as a referendum election.

The time to take a stand was voting No to the CR back in March before the Big Ugly Death Bill became a law. Schumer orchestrated that, gave permission for Democrats to kill the filibuster.

and starve to death until the next election if that's what it takes? Wow.

insurance and possible death to myself? Wow.

We interacted almost a year ago. I am sad to hear about those brainless DOGE morons axing your job.
This is ridiculous. They are laying the US to waste while a collection of dim-witted billionaires and their sycophants throw “Great Gatsby” parties…I mean come on ….

response. It's very frustrating I had a great federal contracting job which was a remote job I was employed for 3 and half years up until April when DOGE axed the contract for the company I worked for. It was very bittersweet because the job I had was one I truly enjoyed and loved and it was the best job I had in my adult life from a satisfaction point of view. I loved going to work everyday and interacting with my colleagues in meetings. We had a great work culture going on in the department of the government I was contracted for. On top of that before Trump won the election back in early 2024 my company announced that they had renewed their contract with government for the next 6 years. We were going to have guaranteed employment for 6 years until DOGE and the Orange bastard took it away.

This is why I'm very hard on the Democrats caving. I have been personally affected by their caving twice this year. First with losing my employment and now I'm on the verge of losing my insurance. This is why I'm not willing to compromise with some of these DUers who are supporting this move by the Democrats. It's easy for them to say this is a good move when they haven't been affected by it.

On top of that I voted for Kamala even though she wasn't my number 1 choice. I have also voted Democrats for my whole entire life starting with Kerry in '04. So nobody can say in here I deserve what is happening to me. I'm tired of having to make sacrifices and not getting any respect back from the Democrats.

After this experience I have had I don't ever want to hear about this bipartisan compromise bs anymore. I'm done with it. Whatever Democrat I support I need to know from them they are going to be hard ass when it comes to negotiations.

On a sidenote fuck MAGA since I don't see them as people anymore after they cheered for people like me to lose my job with the government.

I've got news for you. The ACA subsidies were never going to be approved by Republicans. Democrats needed to do something about this 2025 expiration date while they still had full control of Congress back in 2022. They apparently didn't think Republicans would be so cruel. Obviously they were wrong. Once there was an expiration date on the subsidies and Republicans were in charge, they were never going to get restored before 2029 at the earliest. Your ACA subsidies were never going to be restored no matter how long the shutdown lasted. Keeping it shutdown through 2026 midterms would not get you one inch closer to restoring those subsidies. Yes it sucks, but there is absolutely nothing the Democratic party could do between now and 2028 to change that. Nobody should be suffering because of that. It's unconscionable that one political party in this country wants people to suffer and die. But the party responsible for making people suffer is 100% Republicans, NOT Democrats who voted to end the shutdown. By highlighting it and making it an issue for the shutdown, they guaranteed it would be front and center in the future and significantly help Democrats in future elections. SNAP, on the other hand, can not be withheld any more once the Government is reopened.

Last edited Mon Nov 10, 2025, 05:41 AM - Edit history (3)

Sadly this type of situation ends in the dynamics helpful to divide and rule politics. Pitting the poor (who need SNAP/food assistance) against the middle-class (who need ACA/healthcare) - that’s class warfare and the end result when a surplus of billionaire or industry friendly politicians end up representing the electorate.

Understandably, having serious troubles doesn’t exactly make people more saintly.

That’s the whole point really - to further erode democracy while setting us at each other’s throats:
https://www.salon.com/2025/11/08/how-a-loss-of-public-benefits-harms-democracy

I edited the title of that post because of this. I did not attack the poster I responded too. I was pointing out that attacking Democrats (which you seem to approve of) over not being able to afford health insurance is ridiculous as Democrats not only have nothing to do with the ACA subsidies not being reinstated. The Republicans were NEVER going to restore those and there is absolutely nothing Democrats can do to change that. Keeping The government closed for a longer period of time would not help those losing the subsidies and thus possibly their insurance altogether one iota. It would, however, cause people receiving SNAP benefits to needlessly suffer.

Last edited Mon Nov 10, 2025, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)

I clearly did miss the point. I thought the earlier post did sound a bit like an attack on that poster and like a defense of centrist dem politicians. And I don’t really like calling out other posters which was why I didn’t really like butting in and why I am happy to edit out any call-outs myself.

But it does seem misguided to dismiss actual voters or posters who are feeling the pain of this like Jspur and that too to defend some pretty centrist dems.

At that point it sounds less like grassroots dem politics and more like defense of the party no matter what. That can’t even be useful for organizing or winning elections. And is less likely to attract a younger audience to boards like DU.

I concede that maybe I didn’t understand the whole thing or your posts. I thought the shutdown was over the ACA:
https://www.npr.org/2025/11/05/nx-s1-5596472/government-shutdown-record-health-care-subsidies

We certainly wouldn't have continued to Trump tax cuts if we had been in control of Congress this year.

I understand why some have such anger over the situation because it really does suck, but I haven't seen an alternative that gets the subsidies put back.

logic. The Democrats goal with this shutdown was to save the subsidies and they failed miserably. That is what the country is now seeing. Nobody cares even among the Democratic base that the Democrats held out for this shut down because it's now perceived as a loss for the Democrats.

I disagree with you on the belief the Democrats wouldn't get an inch closer to getting the subsidies if they kept the government shutdown until the midterms. I have a hard time believing as bad as the Republicans are they wouldn't be willing to have negotiations after suffering huge midterm losses. I think they would be more motivated to budge then risk future political ass whooping's especially knowing Trump can't protect them from losses. This is also how you weaken Trump's control of them. You show them through their losses how aligning with Trump hurts them even more vs compromising with the Democrats.

A bully is not willing to negotiate until they get punched up in the face quite a few times that the fight is even too much for them to continue which would have eventually happened to the Republicans. The Democrats were starting to touch them up a little bit and then decided to stop which was stupid. Trump now knows for sure he can run over them easily for the rest of his term.

You can argue with me that the Democrats wouldn't necessarily have a blue wave doing what I recommended but I would be willing to take that risk. With the move the Democrats made yesterday in capitulating there is a good chance now a lot of people will be apathetic towards voting for them in '26 and the Republicans will maintain control. That's how stupid this move was by the Democrats. No one is believing Chuck and the rest of those 8 idiots who deflected negotiated this deal in good faith.

But I will point out you are explicitly breaking the rules of the site against trashing Democrats.

Because it’s the law.

Dems claiming “victory” on this are gaslighting you.

Same with restoring federal worker paychecks - back pay is the law. They didn’t “win” anything.

the Supreme Court could rule in favor of Trump's position. Even if the the prior court ruling was upheld, that was based on SNAP benefits having to be paid because there was a contingency fund. That contingency fund would run out of money in less than 2 months. So what were SNAP beneficiaries supposed to do after that? The courts couldn't help them after that.

You're the one gaslighting.

Very reluctantly, I must agree with you. While the shutdown has not really affected me personally -- not yet, anyway -- others are nowhere near as fortunate, indeed, one of my sons works for the Civil Service and has been furloughed ever since the shutdown began. It somehow would seem a bit cheap for me, who is not really affected, to want the shutdown to continue when there are so many others who are suffering deeply because of it. And, certainly, Trump and the Republicans absolutely DO NOT care about those who are suffering. If they did care in any way, shape, or form, things would never have gotten anywhere near this point.

The Democrats had no good options here. There were only differing degrees of bad options. I'm not wise enough to say what the least bad option might have been, but . . . at least, my son, and all the other innocent people who have been so deeply affected by this, can return to some sense of "normality," for a time, anyway.

So, there will be a "guaranteed" vote on ACA subsidies before year's end. The thought that comes to my mind is: Charlie Brown. Lucy. Football. There is certainly no guarantee that such a vote would pass the Senate, and even if it did, no guarantee that it would pass the House, and even if it did, it is very likely that Trump would veto it, and there certainly would not be anywhere near enough votes in either the Senate or the House to override that veto. So, perhaps the best advice I might offer, such as it is, is to prepare "the mother of" all messaging campaigns.

My $0.02 worth, anyway . . .

it's way easier to say KEEP IT GOING when you're on the sidelines

dunno if Trump can do much of a "victory tour" when people saw for themselves exactly how much he detests anyone needing any assistance

We, very literally, lost everything today.
Do you think young people are going to vote for more of Democrats surrendering all the fucking time?
This means millions of people will loss insurance, the very thing we claimed to cared about.

Republicans now know to get Democrats to fold they just have to press the right buttons. They will play these people like a fiddle from here on out.

They have no guarantee that a vote will even happen in the Senate. The Republicans got what they wanted, they stopped given a shit about the ACA subsidies nonsense the moment the 8th Democrat voted in their favor.
They *promised " to vote. How could Senate Democrats be that stupid to think that "promise" means anything?

We just lost the midterms and the election and we will be lucky if the Democratic Party survives at all.

but I'm saying since repukes absolutely do not fucking care, they'd let the government stay shut down - in the meantime, millions are affected and air travel becomes dicier by the day

there IS no ideal solution

The other shutdowns in my life didn't stimulate electoral tremors indicating Americans are more frustrated than ever with our system's inequities and the growing wealth disparities it has produced. There seems to be momentum building now that hasn't been seen since the Great Depression. The beneficiaries of our late-stage capitalism would be understandably nervous about that.

We achieved absolutely nothing,

is way more people are aware that repukes not only don't care about people who need help, they absolutely DESPISE anyone who needs help

You have less than 700 posts and you come on here and start chastising the rest of us?

I think not.

Possibly the most vicious attack on the members of this board that I've ever witnessed.

Pretty sad, isn't it?

the only leverage we ever had was the purse.

ending the shut down in no way insures that people will be fed or receive cancer treatments or anything else except the "mass deportations soon to include "terrorist socialist antisemitic communists" like us.

is not in session. Reading these posts, you'd think we had a unicameral legislature.

maybe never.

Now we've been shived by our own donor fluffers.

I dare you to find ONE - - - not 100, not 1,000, but JUST ONE commentator all next week who says "Democrats won because they made this an issue." The news for the rest of the year will be "Democrats caved, Trump won."

Trump's "Big Beautiful Bill" is intact. The Project 2025 goal of ending Social Security, ACA, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, DOE, aid to farmers, and every other social program since 1929 is intact and well on the way to implementation.

Trump won. We did not win a goddam thing.

People are grieving. The reactions have been appropriate for the most part, especially given the situation.

If it is true that we have no leverage because the other side are psychopaths, that is a reason to hold the line, not a reason to compromise.

Although it did not lock in ACA extensions, it did get a firm commitment to have that boat and also all the government workers that were laid off were all being rehired and all with backpay and of course the snap benefits start back up and flight controllers will get back to work But. The silver lining may be that the house has to come back and get in session to pass whatever the Senate sends over and at that point in time it’s very possible that they have to swear in the Democrat and there may be enough to get the Epstein files released

Yippee

It's the reason why democrats keep losing.
You can justify it any which way you want.
Bottom line is, it's cowards like you that keep surrendering, then finding reasons after the fact to justify your actions.

This isn't hyperbole, it is just basic facts.

How the hell do people like you think we can declare this as a " victory"!?

See post 45.

The fight here is that, in the richest country in the world, we shouldn't have to choose between killing our poor and killing our sick.

regarding ACA or anything else. The government is still going to be shut down. When the House finally shows up for work, that means the AZ representative has to be seated, and then Katy bar the door regarding the Epstein files.

else to delay it. I just hope when they do, our response is something other than, "Hey! That's not nice!"

She doesn't need to be sworn in by Congress. That's a tradition, not a rule. She can be sworn in by a judge.

will blame Republicans for the affordability catastrophe. And, yes, food. . .

To make sure it sticks to the slimey crooks

This shutdown was messaging. So is the capitulation.

and all this shit was on the ballot. I'm beyond livid with the people who voted for him or sat home.

Just how damn long do you think it will be before SNAP is completely discontinued and Medicaid as well? What the hell happened here is that these stupid democrats have completely destroyed their political base when it is most needed. Trump is illegally with holding funds for SNAP, this would have been settled in court very soon. What compelled these democrats to vote for the republican agenda has all to do with their rich donors folks, wake the hell up. The airlines, the travel industry and any business that depends on airlines would is hurting. Corporate contractors are not getting paid for their federal contracts. Think about all the jobs the federal employees do that help run American businesses, this is what it is about not federal employees and the military not getting paid, people going hungry or people having affordable healthcare.

Once they see you break then they know what buttons to push to make you break every time for the end of time. All they got to do is apply a little pressure and you will break.

Republicans now control them. They will never take anything they say seriously again.They have no reason to bargain or negotiate with Democrats. Senate Democrats just became the Republican Party's Reek.

While we are messaging that Trump is starving people with the SNAP cuts, some are trying to justify the surrender saying that continuing the shutdown was going to starve SNAP beneficiaries.

Talk about some contradictory messaging.

and at least nominally sympathetic to most of the body.

The notion that there was any 'winning' involved in the shutdown - DID in large part give short shrift to the legitimate pain and suffering (and not only the healthcare and SNAP benefits that were the big highlight - but in many other direction and vectors as well!) that went along with it. And for that essential (perhaps willful?) blindness to the real price being extracted (and expected) - from real people - had to be viewed as in some ways short sighted - and certainly no service to the people. Or at least the notion that there was 'winning' involved certainly pointed in that direction.

(winning like a war widow in Ukraine ?)

Jeez Chuck, you went through all that horseshit, messed with people's paychecks and SNAP bennies, as part of a grand struggle to maintain ACA coverage affordability, and you didn't even get a single one of your primary demands met? Maybe Sen. Thune keeps his word and maybe you get to vote on the ACA funding later, maybe there's even enough votes to get cloture, maybe there's enough votes to pass the bill, and maybe F47 deigns to sign it. Then more $$$ floods in to the coffers of allocated funds that the Grand Rescissionist gets to redistribute as he pleases because you dropped the whole thing about requiring the money be spent as described. Good job, surely your name will go down in history alongside Neville Chamberlain as one of the all-time great bargainers. Your mediocrity in the face of national crisis will be long-remembered, sung of by bards, nobles, and commoners alike. Congratulations on a match well-thrown.

I have to agree on many of your points. I am convinced that Trump would never have caved. He exults in punishing people. And he HATES most Americans, especially Democrats.

My niece is an air traffic controller. She and her husband have two children ages two and four. At the end of October she had to take a day off work to arrange loans, talk to creditors, and figure out which bills they could afford to wait on. With the responsibility of lives in her hands, she did not take a day off lightly but out of desperation. She and all the air traffic controllers were working shorthanded which means extra-long hours and being required to work six days a week quite often. She couldn't take a paying job as a gig worker because of those long hours. They were really headed to a breaking point.

Then there's my disabled friend Natalie who survives on an income of $967 and for whom SNAP is the difference between making it and otherwise. I've bought a lot of groceries for her in the last couple of weeks after learning she was skipping meals, which she can't afford to do because of the medication she is on and the toll it takes on her health. It wasn't sustainable. And by helping her to the extent I was, I couldn't also easily send my niece and her husband money or step up what we give to our local food bank.

Most Democrats in Congress had to be aware that Trump is psychopathic and can't be counted on to negotiate an end to it, especially since it fit with Project 2025 to destroy both ACA and SNAP.

All they had were awful choices. Ending the shutdown now to prevent adults, seniors, and children from starving now, forced into bankruptcy, possibly losing their homes, and the trauma that economic upheaval causes to families and marriages. Or skyrocketing insurance premiums with many losing health insurance, some with pre-existing conditions, medical bankruptcies, some with losing their homes. They ended the one that involved starvation and got huge attention on the skyrocketing premiums as well as the Big Ugly Bill and its consequences. I feel for them. This kind of moral dilemma is devastating to have to consider, with no least bad options.

Either you or the break-aways.

I thought I would be one of those saying, "Don't cave! Don't cave!" But instead I'm feeling like enough suffering and I think we got our point across. I'm fine with the "no cave" senators because they're making an important point. But I'm also fine with the cave senators because there really has been too much suffering. And the point is still being driven home, the Republicans don't care that ACA subsidies will be sky rocketing. We weren't going to get support for the subsidies. They were never going to vote for them. I call it a win, even though subsidies will be sky rocketing. But also, immigrants are still going to be terrorized, corruption is still rampant, the ballroom is still being built, small boats are still being blown up. It's all awful. But at least SNAP will be restored and the courts will be back in full force.

These traitorous senators better have gotten rich from surrendering because they just ended their political careers and will have to live their lives in shame ‼️

I will donate to every one who primaries these traitors ‼️

and a few centrists acted like it was Democratic shutdown. The only thing we got was laughed at!

the psycho in his gilded palace exactly what he wants. We were not going to get them to vote on anything if we didn't open the government. It could have gone on forever because Republicans don't give a shit about the American people and would have let it.

LOL

apparently the only plan going forward should be "Capitulate early and always!"

I'm sure that will be a great rallying cry "ABANDON ALL HOPE!".

Winning message for sure.

Totally feel better now.

a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party, with passion. Everybody finished now? Need a cigarette?

...because the threat of hunger and economic collapse is always present when shutting down the gov't. If we weren't committed to it, then we shouldn't have started it. It's a loss for us, and Dems are now furious with each other. Good move.

Of course it's heinous to allow people to go hungry. Know what else is heinous? Masked armed men in unmarked cars kidnapping humans and sending them god knows where. We just funded more of that, as our Mad King increases his personal police force known as ICE. That's okay I guess.

There is always going to be pain in a fight, and to start a fight, then stop it because the disadvantaged might suffer is ridiculous. Of course people will suffer, and of course air traffic will stop after a month a half. I guess we can never play hardball because their might be collateral damage, so we can expect nothing from leadership and realize it's on us and only us. Oh by the way, people will suffer then too.

We just folded on the very thing we started while funding our own demise, and that's freaking stupid.

I was hoping to retire. I guess that's not happening now. Having to work additional years than I had otherwise planned on seems over-the-top, too.

Voting to allow evil isn't much better than voting for evil.

I think blame should be confined to those that betrayed us. We don't know if Trump might have caved at some point. Wouldn't be the first time.

It is now apparent that neither is responsive to the needs of Nevadans. Accordingly I will vote for their primary opponents in 2028 and 2030.

What!?!?!?

No one's going to blame Trump. It was the Democrats fault. The media will swear to it.

nt