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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPeople steady advocating against Democrats don't seem to have a care in the world about achieving a majority
.......most polling has shown that some two-thirds of Americans, and about half of Democrats polled, oppose the government shutdown.
So what is all of this performative scorn being unleashed on Democrats who made that deal supposed to lead us to do in response?
Vote them out is what I've been hearing. So, the very first question I have is, what happens to their seat and what responsibility is this internet or media crank talking loudly in opposition to 'Democrats' taking to ensure that they're not just promoting cynicism about the ONLY party that's going to pose an reasonable challenge to republicans in the upcoming elections.
There is no Media political party where Brian Tyler Cohen is going to organize Senate Democrats any more effectively to do whatever the media podcaster thinks they should, any more than the leaders THEY already chose to represent them.
There's no Internet political party that's going to replace Democrats. The only effect in setting up untenable ultimatums for dozens of elected Democrats from disparate regions of America is a predictable splintering of support among the people they lead to agree with them.
It's an insidiously foolish game played by unelected political hacks who bait Democrats who are already softened and conditioned to attack their own party with cynicism at EVERY political initiative, and scorn at every loss seemingly self-servingly engineered by cynicism which infected the last election they handed to Trump.
But we're supposed to believe that loss and the sorry state of control of Congress and the White House is somehow the fault of people who have actually run against that trolling AND their republican opponents and WON; unlike the people who insist on portraying the party they likely didn't support at all as feckless, I'd guess to justify that lack of support.
But the thing is, Democrats in the majority ALWAYS deliberately and aggressively move the party's progressive agenda forward, and the country right along with. So where is this groundswell of Americans who want our party to just sit and yell at republicans, instead of leading the way forward?
At some point, Democrats have to demonstrate our skill at governing, even against republican obstinacy. It's actually what we do best, because our concern isn't merely fighting republicans and blocking their partisan initiatives and actions; it's producing results that do more than just accommodate our politics.
You can certainly disagree, There's nothing more satisfying than seeing republicans squirm. But if you're expecting them to unilaterally do something that benefits Americans, you haven't been paying much attention. And again I would ask, where is the constituency for being eternally obstinate?
Are we being led to satisfy some podcaster's or some internet advocate's pique, or is there really some larger point to claiming to want to negotiate, and then refusing to when terms are accepted?
Tell us again what the end game was supposed to be? Some gaslit fantasy about republicans doing what - just relinquishing their majority before the next election because Democrats refuse to vote for their budget to advance?
Trashing all Democrats for the actions of a handful is ridiculous enough, but the most absurd is believing that just remaining obstinate was going to spur republicans to produce something benefiting Americans that they could have already done on their own.
That's not governing, it's a protest movement, and people should recognize the difference.
Agitation in politics is mostly a matter of volume and not necessarily effect. For any political movement to succeed it needs to have a militant sense of responsibility, with a legislative goal at the end of protests to transform agitation into action.
Moreover, in this binary political system of elections, electing Democrats to achieve a majority is the ultimate goal, at least in the short term. If we don't make that happen, we'll be locked indefinitely in this pattern of ineffectiveness and the recrimination that follows.
There is no government shutdown constituency, no matter how strongly one might feel about keeping it going, so what's this advocacy against Democrats we need to fill out any majority really all about?
You have to wonder if these people griping consider themselves as responsible for promoting a Democratic majority as much as their focus on bashing the ones we managed to elect?
It's just not believable that they have some credible line on that election effort that meshes with their wanton attacks on the party and our leaders. And for fucksakes, that's basically the game here - to elect more Democrats to achieve a majority.
Have these people telling you tonight how much THEY feel betrayed by Dems, something something... have they ever been completely helpful to that effort? Or do you always find them dragging on the party and our Democrats at the times when party unity is the most important opposition to the republicans they claim to oppose as they gaslight you daily?
What the fuck are they doing to help elect more Democrats? That's all the fuck I want to hear from them - not navelgazing lectures about how I should feel about my own party based on their personally aggrandized, and predictable like clockwork, rants against Democrats.
RockRaven
(18,349 posts)some number of the votes which allowed the shutdown to happen and proceed were wrong, because the nominal thing being saved ultimately was not... and defenders of today's action are saying it could not be, in which case the shutdown is not defensible.
One can only defend today's action by throwing yesterdays' actions under the bus. No matter which way one tries to spin it, this was botched and that botching is worthy of critique.
I'm disappointed too. How reasonable Schumer's proposal was, and how unreasonable Thune's gang was being, had barely had a chance to sink in. I figured within a week the Republicans were likely to cave because they REALLY didn't like the thought of people hating on them over Thanksgiving Dinner.
We'll never know if that thinking was right or wrong.
However, this was not some all out surrender. All along, there WERE negotiations going on -- negotiations on actual appropriations bills. Almost like a functional Congress does as a matter of course. Negotiations on things nobody had publicly drawn a line in the sand on.
The funding cuts in the MAGA Murder Budget are meaningless until they are implemented in an appropriation bill. I expect the negotiated bills mitigate some of those harms.
For example, the MAGA Murder Budget cut SNAP by something like 20 billion a year for the next 10 years. Reporting seems to indicate that the agriculture appropriation bill negotiated as part of the deal fully funds SNAP at current levels through fiscal 2026.
I think we'll be hearing about a number of other "wins" for Democrats in the minibus appropriations bills
And, we may yet get an extension of the ACA subsidies. This stand off has raised public awareness and anger about the catastrophic ACA premium increases. It's possible, perhaps even likely, that enough Republicans decide they are more afraid of their voters than trump.
And the promise of a vote on an ACA bill drafted and negotiated by Senate Democrats is a concession on their part. They've been refusing to negotiate on even the possibility of a vote until the House CR was passed.
Plus, during the stand off, the felon exposed himself as the Grinch who literally went to the Supreme Court to steal Christmas.
All in all, I don't think we are in such a bad place. Time will tell.
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Of the eight:
Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto of Nevada was almost always a yes
Sen. John Fetterman of Pennsylvania was always a yes
Sen. Angus King of Maine went back and forth and was part of the group pushing for a deal.
Sen. Jeanne Shaheen and Sen. Maggie Hassan of New Hampshire were working on negotiating the minibus part of this deal, along with some other senior Dems on relevant committees, since before the budget deadline. They would be expected to be yes's when they figured they had gotten all the concessions they were going to get.
So, the "Deal Makers" only needed three more. I don't know if these folks were in on trying to make the deal or just got on board as it looked like it was coming together.
Sen. Dick Durbin of Illinois
Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia
Sen. Jacky Rosen of Nevada
EdmondDantes_
(1,142 posts)That happens. If a doctor tries to treat an illness with one treatment and it doesn't work are they obligated to keep trying? If I start to read a book and find I don't like it, am I obligated to finish it because otherwise I'd be saying starting it was wrong? You don't keep doing a thing that isn't working.
Obviously some Democrats (including both of my Senators) wanted to keep the shutdown going. I don't know how I would vote in their shoes because I'm not in their shoes. I haven't paid any price that I know of this shutdown. I don't have travel scheduled, I don't have SNAP or work for the government. I don't rely on ACA subsidies either. I can see arguments in both directions, but what I can't see is how continuing the shutdown gets what we want. With this deal a bunch of fired government workers get their jobs back and all government workers get to get paid. SNAP gets funded and we get a vote on the ACA subsidies. None of that was true on Saturday. That's a bird in hand at least.
stopdiggin
(14,693 posts)"Fight, Fight, Fight !!"
What - you thought this was about cheering for your college football team ?
(and with approximately equal weight and consequence on the line?) Damn, people !
Sogo
(6,822 posts)Thank you!
Envirogal
(259 posts)The amount of economic loss and costs is enormous. The national parks have been vandalized. The federal workers, especially the air traffic controllers, have suffered severe stress and hardship, and all of the other hassles this shutdown caused. The question is WHY even do it if you knew you had little leverage and limited stomach for the fight? We know that Republicans are ruthless and will gladly cut the baby in half in this game of chicken.
Dems are the governing party but that isnt gotten us very far on the scale of effective messaging. Pretty thankless result. We are weak and any GOP game theory will predict we wouldnt have the stomach for playing hardball, even after an election winning cycle Tuesday. We cave. So again, the question is why even try? It almost looks worse when you got NOTHING for the effort and distracts the attention from Trumps cruel fleecing of the poor and middle class?
And Schumer is not going to get out of this easily despite him stacking the deck with senators voting that have no election coming up and allowing him to be vocal saying hes a no vote. Hes not fooling anyone that this was a stacked deck that he supprted to get them out of this mess. Maybe we shouldnt be calling for all the heads of the Democrats, but we certainly should be calling for Chuck Schumers. Hes been an ineffective leader and has well worn through his shelf. This is not the time for statesman and old school 74 year-old diplomacy that is from a long bygone era. We need strategic thinking and fighters, not strongly worded letters.
Give us his head and maybe that will allow for Democrats voters to move forward. But it is hard if nobody pays for this shutdown fail.
orangecrush
(27,534 posts)Baitball Blogger
(51,446 posts)Theyre good at governing. We got where we are today because Democrats have capitulated every fucking time. So Republicans keep giving us the worst version of themselves because they know the old school Democrats keep caving to their demands. In the end were looking at the only reason to vote for Democrats is because Republicans will kill us off faster.
Pototan
(2,918 posts)Only Democrats can beat Republicans. There's not another choice. I'm sorry that's the way it is, but that's the way it is.
angrychair
(11,468 posts)What was the point of pushing a shutdown in the first place? Telling people to "stand strong" only to screw people in the end?
We told people that healthcare was critical and we ended up making a deal for absolutely nothing in return. The "promise" for a vote is absolutely ridiculous and completely meaningless. It will not pass and we used our only leverage and pissed away all the good well we had coming out of the office year elections.
Billsdaughter
(105 posts)NOTHING!!!
There is no hyper intellectual explanation for what happened in that rotunda last night.
We were sold down the river.
Every ounce of leverage is now gone. Poof! Also gone? The people's trust in the Democrat party.
I look forward to hearing what Barack has to say since it is his signature legislation now at death's door.
dem4decades
(13,390 posts)Emile
(39,090 posts)thing this handful of centrists accomplished was for Trump to laugh his ass off.
Emile
(39,090 posts)thanks to centrists caving we're losing the ACA.
Orrex
(66,376 posts)The real problem is anonymous DUers failing to offer sufficient praise to elected Democrats.
Scrivener7
(57,772 posts)doing. If only YOU were doing enough, none of this would be happening!!1!
The screed is knee-jerk now.

Orrex
(66,376 posts)MineralMan
(150,208 posts)Response to bigtree (Original post)
BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
leftstreet
(38,208 posts)He'd have to know how that dilutes your base
yaesu
(8,807 posts)C_U_L8R
(48,521 posts)Or rather, like a tinpot militarized junta.