General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWatch and appreciate how Democrats are governing to pressure republicans
...for whatever individual motive, eight senators, Dems and independents, exercised a political decision to join with republicans to temporarily fund the government.
We can fight about that among ourselves, endlessly, as it's clear so many people who like to flame and ignite Democrats against each other to deflect from or avoid the vexing task of actually dislodging and moving republicans are wont to do.
But maybe, instead, consider the political landscape that's emerged now that the only hook republicans and the WH had available to divert from their sophistry that Democrats voting against their CR meant they couldn't advance their budget on their own votes; either through a simple majority eliminating or neutering the filibuster requirement for the budget; or with a simple majority in reconciliation.
Thing is, putting aside that Trump has to agree to sign the thing, there's still debating and voting to be done over this compromise looming ahead in the House. And let's make this clear, the vast majority of Democrats in the House, as well as in the Senate that just passed this agreement, including the two Democratic leaders, are still strongly against the resolution.
Moreover, the political conversation and debate is now firmly on Americans' health care costs and the republicans' efforts to make life harder and more expensive for all Americans, not just Democrats. That's a direct result of the two Democratic leaders' relentless drumbeat about the ACA tax credits and their transition over to defending SNAP benefits.
Remember, both of those were already cut viciously by the republican budget and indifference and inactivity to address those concerns before the shutdown. Dem leaders and others have firmly established who is responsible for these things which are hurting Americans and the election victories demonstrate that political progress in bring Americans along with us, all the way through to showing up and voting.
That's no small measure of progress for an opposition party.
Even more interesting is there's still the swearing in of Raúl Grijalva's daughter pending, ostensibly held up by Maga Mike Johnson to avoid a vote on releasing the Epstein files. Now the onus is back on republicans to reopen the House of Representatives they've deliberately kept in recess, with their republican members on vacation for nearly seven weeks now.
...here's Leader Jeffries putting it in perspective today:
But the fight is getting ready to shift back to the House where we're going to work hard to hold the Republicans accountable. All of these loudmouths on the House Republican conference side who's been saying for the last several weeks that we have to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. Now is their chance.
This week they have to come back from their seven week prolonged taxpayer funded Republican vacation. They can no longer hide. They can no longer hide. Mike Johnson apparently still hiding. Refused to even answer a single question today. That's extraordinary.
But they're not going to be able to hide this week when they return from their vacation.
Speaking of the House, uh, Speaker Johnson has not committed holding a vote on subsidies even though the Senate agreement would have them do so. What do you say to that? And then also, what do you think that would do to the relationship between Republicans and Democrats on the House?
Well, the failure of Republicans to address the health care crisis that they've created in the House and in the Senate is no surprise because House and Senate Republicans multiple times this year have been given an opportunity to vote to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits. And multiple times this year already in the context of the debate around their one big ugly bill, they voted against unanimously voted against extending the Affordable Care Act tax credits.
So over the last several weeks, it's become increasingly difficult from the for them to hide from their position as it relates to the healthcare of the American people. And, House Democrats, joined by our colleagues in the Senate, we're not going to stop the fight. We're going to continue to lean into the fight over the next few days and beyond until we actually get an outcome that makes life better for workingclass Americans."
watch full presser:
SSJVegeta
(2,012 posts)To put the premium credits into fsa funds?
Is that in any of the bills?
mzmolly
(52,540 posts)Republicans now own healthcare.
yaesu
(8,807 posts)mzmolly
(52,540 posts)their jobs.
Bettie
(19,116 posts)jobs.
Their districts are gerrymandered to the point where they could put a literal pig on the ballot with an R next to it and the people there would dutifully vote for the pig and declare it to be the greatest rep in history.
mzmolly
(52,540 posts)safe? Mike Johnson has no reason for concern about 2026?
Bettie
(19,116 posts)people tend to vote for incumbents.
The Republican party has a lot of money and spends it freely, usually on advertising that is a. effective, and b. all sensationalistic lies.
So, no, he doesn't have to worry. More gerrymandering means more Republicans in the House. It's way harder for a Democrat to win a house seat because truth is less compelling that continual, sensationalistic lies.
mzmolly
(52,540 posts)NotHardly
(2,226 posts)mzmolly
(52,540 posts)I think people are going to be enraged.
yaesu
(8,807 posts)bigtree
(93,231 posts)...this is what minority politics looks like.
Want a different scenario other than performative actions from a party without the ability to legislate on their own votes? Vote in a Democratic majority.
In the meantime, grousing about the political landscape and acting as if all politics stopped at that one vote in that one body is really short-sighted.
I mean wallowing in it while calling actual opposition efforts pigish makes no sense at all.
MichMan
(16,263 posts)bigtree
(93,231 posts)...it was a slick effort to give the American people something vital and dare republicans to take it away.
There were never enough votes to make it permanent, and not because the majority of Dems disagreed, but because the two fake Democrats Manchin and Sinema wouldn't agree to allow it.
Another example of the broad brush against the party assuming the vast majority of Democrats did something wrong when it was actually one or two in a slim majority blocking action or advantaging republicans, either in committee or on the floor.
mzmolly
(52,540 posts)There is no attempt to insinuate we had good options and took one of them. There were no good options.
LR3
(87 posts)However, I guess some people enjoy making excuses for failure after failure.
Two-thirds of Democrats are pissed off that Democrats don't show sufficient fight, and here we are again.
bigtree
(93,231 posts)...and nowhere in this post have I excused any Democrat voting for this.
My point is that the sky isn't falling any faster than it already was, and that there are real political advantages for any Democrat looking to confront the republicans.
They don't have a final budget vote, just a temporary extension, but some people can't seem to find their footing to keep the pressure on, demanding we dissemble and attack our own party instead, despite only what 6 actual Democrats defecting for this short rope?
Be as pissed off as you want. But the fight right now isn't with a handful of Democrats in one body of Congress who didn't actually do much except burst this shutdown bubble, and the die is already cast in this fight against republicans with the public now rallying against republicans.
But, sure, lets' roll around on the floor fighting among our selves, or better yet, let'rs reward the rest of the party for standing against the extension with this dragging on the entire party like we can't tell the difference between them.
Continually trying to write off failures as "no worse that it was before" is why we don't hold a single branch of government.
It's blatantly obvious that Shumer was on board with this, not only from who voted to end the shut down but from Shaheen's own words. So not only did Dem leadership OK this, they didn't even bother to ensure the House also took a vote on the subsidies. And "with the public now rallying against republicans" has been pissed away in one vote.
"Don't get mad at the Democrats, it was only 6 of them (it wasn't only six) that caused catastrophic failure" is spouting the same losing nonsense as "What else could Garland have done?"
Freddie
(9,998 posts)Think about it. They would rather have children starve than do something good for people.
Proof again that Republicans will. not. negotiate. This is the party that once claimed bipartisanship is date rape. This is a major disappointment but we cant just throw in the towel and let them win the midterms. We need to remind people that Republicans were going to extreme lengths to STARVE PEOPLE rather than give a little on the healthcare issue. Theyd rather throw thousands out of work, refuse to pay the ones still working, and disrupt vital air travel rather than help people. We have to turn this disappointment around and show the people who Republicans really are. In their minds, working together to help Americans is date rape.
Autumn
(48,599 posts)who are evil. Elected Democrats will own it too because they didn't fight. And there will be a price to pay. When people have nothing left to lose they really don't fucking care.
Freddie
(9,998 posts)Yes this is a discouraging development (to say the least) but giving up will only make things infinitely worse.
Autumn
(48,599 posts)edisdead
(3,396 posts)There is no way for dems to force the repubs to do anything.
edisdead
(3,396 posts)because you want them to? That makes zero sense. The Dems cant bring it to a vote shutdown or not. All the shutdown was doing at this point was keeping folks from getting a paycheck. It served no purpose to get the extension. And just allowed the repugs to sit and point about how the dems wouldnt open the gov in order to vote on it. Now repugs cannot hide behind that.
The repugs control ALL of government. They will allow peoples healthcare to skyrocket. How do you tie that to Dems????
CentralMass
(16,722 posts)edisdead
(3,396 posts)They were never going to hold a vote on it. So what was the shutdown going to do?
CentralMass
(16,722 posts)bigtree
(93,231 posts)...with this temporary extension just delaying a fight that saw the WH deliberately crippling Americans already hurting until after the hilidays.
But the hair on fire stuff would be hilarious if it wasn't so tracically feckless and self-defeating.
MarineCombatEngineer
(16,762 posts)but understand our dismay at what happened last night, IMHO, we just got a pig in a poke.
I hope you're right, because as it stands right now, we are in danger of losing the momentum of last Tues. elections going into the mid terms.
Like I said, I appreciate the attempt to calm things down.
bigtree
(93,231 posts)...but these Dems have been signaling for weeks now that they weren't going all the way with the protest.
But look, the actual pressure on republicans to make the ACA subsidy extension is still out there, albeit these Democrats gave them rope.
Remember, these issues existed BEFORE the shutdown. SNAP is already cut mercilessly in the budget, but there wasn't any national discussion or debate until the president blocked it and Democrats stood up and defended the people in need.
Republicans had all year to extend the ACA subsides, but it was the clever pivot from Dem leaders to make the shutdown appear to be about those subsidies.
The effort to block the advancement of the budget was basically this, to keep it from steamrolling to final passage. The politics of demanding this or that hasn't ended, nor the leverage, it's just shifted the fight to after Christmas.
There was actually a demand that ACA subsidy vote take place in December, but the republican leadership balked and shifted that vote to January.
Instead of just assuming that republicans cared enough about the people they were hurting in the shutdown to agree to Dem demands to extend the ACA, maybe take this time to deepen the concern and expectation that Dem leaders generated among Americans that Congress should extend the temporary benefits to address what Jeffries calls the 'republican health care crisis.'
There was never an assurance that republicans would bend to demands over hurting people they have been kicking around for months now. It makes little sense, except in the way Dem leaders used the tension and concern in the public to effectively put the hat on republicans.
Notwithstanding 'deals' which are likely nonstarter with any republican they expect to vote along with Democrats on these benefits, and just a delay before another shutdown fight in January when this resolution expires, this has always been an uphill political fight, not a realistic expectation of bending republicans to our will.
The hope is that we can get voters to do that, so I'm seeing nothing but political opportunity in this present landscape which is increasing, not diminished at all by the vote, and likely enhanced by the removal of the bandaid of pointing at Senate Dems which republicans advantaged (with the cooperation of the press) to obscure the deep gash in actual public support for anything they're doing with the budget.
gab13by13
(30,624 posts)is going to allow Congressional Magats to save Obamacare?
Krasnov hates Barack Obama, especially since the correspondence dinner beatdown.
Last I heard was that Krasnov was on a revenge tour.
A handful of Democrats voted to kill 50,000 Americans because of the loss of Obamacare subsidies. Spin the good deal to the loved ones of those 50,000.
rampartd
(2,958 posts)happy birthday, top. semper fi.
leftstreet
(38,208 posts)I don't want to say mark my words, BUT this is going to shift the healthcare conversation away from single payer and back to Bush era bullshit. Health savings accounts, etc.
bigtree
(93,231 posts)...we're in an election season, and this is opposition politics, not actual expectations that republicans in power will do more than be republicans.
We saw the dynamic of Dem leader's activism working to bring voters to the end game of elections and support our Democrats in opposition to republican challengers, as several levels. The effect was undeniably a shift in public support and sentiment to our party.
That's the game here, not some expectation that we can derail republicans indefinitely with stunts, and not make substanitive changes to the makeup of Congress to achieve a Democratic majority, especially in the House where we're so close.
But we're seeing the positive political effects of Dems keeping republicans off blance over SNAP, over ACA subsudies, over Epstein...
Watch how the WH and republicans squirm and ultimately disappoint Americans on these issues that Democratic leaders and others have made the defining concerns of the moment with their activism and advocacy inside their respective bodies.
None of that goes away because of this dynamic of the phony obstacle the media was pretending along with republicans that Senate Dems were supposedly making which republicans were claiming prevented them from helping Americans instead of hurting them
Let's not lose sight of the political landscape which hasn't really changed at all except for the removal of a band-aid over a deep gash Dems have made in the credibility and character of republicans and the president.
Let's take advantage of that. The stakes haven't changed, and the politics has shifted in our favor with fights still looming on whether to allow the republican budget to continue advancing to implementation - with all but a handful of Democrats still firmly against the republican budget, despite this continuing resolution.
The deal extends current levels of government funding through January 2026.
We will never have single payer or anything close. Even with the ACA, there are still millions with any insurance or healthcare at all. Yet, they are forgotten in any conversations. As I remember, that was one the first things negotiated away in the debates over the ACA.
edisdead
(3,396 posts)why are we talking about single payer?
gab13by13
(30,624 posts)Krasnov is in charge of Congress and he hates Barack Obama.
BigMin28
(1,804 posts)as an example of Democrats caving in to repukes. That concession left millions out, and they aren't even mentioned anymore.
Autumn
(48,599 posts)Scrivener7
(57,768 posts)berksdem
(886 posts)but I had to reread this to make sure it wasn't satire.
bigtree
(93,231 posts)...I'm thinking you didn't read what I wrote at all, since your response is obtuse to it.
I don't really give a shit about 'positivity' in relation to any of this. 'Progressive' and progressing would be my most vain hope and expectation of a party out of actual legislative power.
berksdem
(886 posts)still don't agree with you. Not being obtuse -- I think your relying on fractured hope.
Even if MJ swears in Grijalva we are not going to see the files. It's not like MJ swears her in it is going to be automatically released. They passed the BBB when public support was low and they will kick the ACA to the curb even if it does go to a vote. They don't care! MAGA doesn't care and they all get off on being cruel.
Happy Hoosier
(9,260 posts)There is no way to spin this as anything other than an catostrophic failure of leadership and a complete failure to read the public's mood. I'm sick to death of excuses for shitty, failed strategy and leadership.
Sogo
(6,822 posts)edisdead
(3,396 posts)I have no idea how people cant see this
gab13by13
(30,624 posts)Make no mistake, if this bill passes, it will lead to New Jerseyans paying far more for their healthcare, when they are already paying more and more for everything, Making this deal is malpractice. Mikie Sherrill.
LonePirate
(14,308 posts)Sometimes I think some on our side can be as difficult as the far right: inflexible and black and white thinking. I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. I saw no end in sight. Republicans could care less about health care. What was the end game here? Continue the shut down til when? The Republicans give in and what if they don't then what? I think this puts us in a better position to fight for health care and to continue pressuring the repubs. We are coming off of some really good wins and with voters blaming Republicans. If we continue hoping the republicans give in and this goes on and on with no end in sight, we stand the chance of voters turning on us as well. Its not always about winning the battle. Its about winning the war.
Quiet Em
(2,483 posts)There is no doubt that the Republicans and the con artist own all this.
The con artist is an unhinged, cruel, vindictive, wannabe dictator who was willing to starve people, place a huge financial burden on Federal workers, disrupt air traffic and make it completely unaffordable for many to purchase health insurance, because he doesn't like President Obama.
If I were a Senator I would have held out longer. The momentum was on our side, the public is on our side, and it's clear to even cult members like MTG that his bill is going to cause tremendous financial hardship and pain.
mcar
(45,473 posts)This was a great presser.
IcyPeas
(24,603 posts)Okay then. Do it.
synni
(639 posts)Or will Trump be allowed to axe that program, too?