the point was to illustrate the republicans lack of ability to govern. That helped immensely in n the election. What were we supposed to do? Never open the government again? Because they were NEVER going to vote on it. That worm would have turned. Now the message is the same republicans will not fix healthcare prices. And they cannot tie Dems to a shutdown as their excuse.

There were like 7 million people in the No Kings thing

Govs were kicking ICE out of their states

Democrats SWEPT the elections

wtf? "Here, we're taking you to the brink of ruin and all the anxiety that entails so we can further ILLUSTRATE to you how badly Orange Man and his people govern"

Indivisible only counts those who sign up on their site as participating in a protest. It is a stupid way of making estimates and should be changed. When people see others joining they follow their peers. Indivisible should get a new system, it would benefit them and us greatly.

"Despite early estimates that 7 million people attended No Kings, it turns out that 21 million did. Three times the estimate! And we had been excited about that 7 million estimate!"

"21 million is a lot of damn people willing to give up their Saturday to march and carry signs and sing and chant and fight for our freedom!"

"And that doesn’t count the millions of people who wanted to go but couldn’t for many, many reasons. I know plenty of those."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220764907

But they are not counted in the totals.

and I am pretty good at making crowd size estimates by now. The MSM usually wouldn't even mention a nationwide protest with millions of Americas showing up. A few did, Rachel Maddow is one of them.
The April "Hands Off" march was super huge and barely got noticed (over 3 million people showed up). The June 14th NO KINGS finally got noticed (11 million) and then the Oct 18th NO KINGS was on most news stations and sites. There were 21 million at that protest.

I keep track of this sort of stuff for my own research as an activist.

assumptions.

The organisers themselves have never went back and made that claim of 21 million, nor has any major, reliable organisation. It is all wishcasting IMHO.

the point was to illustrate the republicans lack of ability to govern?

I agree with the OP; the ACA extensions were dead the moment the GOP dug in their heels. This is always how the shutdown would end. There was no chance the GOP would capitulate on their extension, and no chance the government would stay shut down for months on end.

What the shutdown did do was very clearly show exactly who will be to blame WHEN, not IF, the ACA premiums skyrocket. Bear in mind the majority of people on the ACA live in red states. All that remains to be seen is if the Republican and Independent voters who use the ACA will keep voting for the Republican politicians trying to ruin their lives.

The people at risk aren't the red state MAGAs on low-income ACA "Obamacare"

It's the independent purchasers of the ACA market plans. Bronze, Silver, Gold. Those weren't cheap to begin with.

The constituents who blasted GOPers when McCain had to give the thumbs-down on the attempt to get rid of ACA were the former

Thanks for that

I forgot how the ACA pandemic subsidies pretty much doubled enrollment. And yeah, it makes sense it would explode in states that hadn't adopted Medicaid expansion. It's suddenly accessible

So that makes cutting the subsidies risky for GOPers. Assuming their constituents understand what's happening

It’s on DU linked here:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220793383#post12]

fight so we get the leaders who have our back…the leaders we deserve!!

You meant. Also I believe all 50 states should be reached out to by Democrats. We need more states and more people who want to be part of our party. Also democrats live in the states you mentioned.

to show us that they're fighting for us, even though they knew it would fail? So what you're saying is that it was a show. That's even worse.

So, they caused needless anxiety for millions of SNAP recipients to show that they're fighting for us?

That is bizarre and also perverse.

they gave up the fight because they wanted us to know that they will only fight for a moment or two, then capitulate while making it all worse!

Bizarre and perverse indeed.

He is the leader he put the package together and thought not voting for it would make a difference. It doesn’t.

They will wait us out.

..... the fact that that didn't happen, and the fact that some predicted it wouldn't happen (NYT, No Paywall) doesn't mean that wasn't the point. That was the point.

If there was a possibility it could work, even if there was a possibility it wouldn't, some people would rather try than not try.

Was it worth the gamble? Maybe we will find it was, maybe not. Only hand wringing will tell.

Party leaders doing dumb things in the party's name is worthy of some handwringing, no?

that was the point and still republicans couldn’t and wouldn’t do it. And they lost big time. Now it is solely on them to fix healthcare and they won’t but they weren’t under the shutdown either.

Literally nothing has changed other than Democrats and leftists shitting themselves.

It was always what they. Wanted.

“THeY PRoVed A PoINt”

NO

pays the co pay on 1 chemo treatment.

those treatments come in weekly or semi weekly infusions . i would have killed myself rather than see my wife homeless to pay for my disease.

Cost $400,000 +

Next February: "Gee, what a shame that we couldn't afford to fund the ACA subsidies this year. Too bad you don't just have that money on hand to make your own healthy choices. We'll fix that."

Next October: "Here is your Trump Golden Healthcare card, FULLY LOADED with (up to) $5000 in Annual Savings for all your healthcare needs! Don't let it affect your vote. Just remember which party trusts You to decide for Yourself and Your FAMILY."

I hope we have some exceptionally-skilled communicators ready to explain why voters should mark the Democratic bubble in November instead of the people who say they're sending money in the mail. Cos the R strategy damn near writes itself.

Pre-existing conditions come back- all the old horrors which will in effect deny/ and end healthcare.

If the shutdown was just to make a point then wtf?

Are you a member of the party leadership now changing your excuse?

it did so in a major way. Now that it is their problem and the public knows it why should democrats tie themselves to it in letting the Rs say their shutdown keeps them from voting on it

and how long before people start blaming dems?

When people can no longer travel, get food, cash a paycheck. Opinions change in a big hurry. Meanwhile there is no longer a shutdown to blame R’s lack of governing on.

You replied to my post. I replied to yours. You should do the same. Going looking for your canned reply isn’t a discussion.

So the mob got what it wanted.

It was never a smart idea, everyone knew that the people causing shutdown have historically never gotten what they were demanding.

Now why the shutdown dragged on beyond a week without giving ourselves any sort of off-ramp, coupled with the messy uncoordinated endgame certainly leaves much to be desired.

At this point the shutdown wasn’t accomplishing anything except punishing federal workers and threatening SNAP families Trump is trying to starve.

Thank goodness these 8 Democrats put this shutdown out of its misery.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, which is fine.

People wanted a shutdown to show 'fight' and they got it. Now that its over they are mad that it even happened.


Some people just want to be mad at Democratic leadership, and any reason will do.

Americans from the horrors of no health insurance. We will never get the ACA back. We need better leaders.

No leader of a minority party was ever going to force the majority to vote for policy it doesn’t want.

These subsidies have been doomed since election day 2024.

At least now voters will have no question on who took away their healthcare.

That is when we would get not just extensions to subsidies... but actual single payer Medicare for all. Maybe we would need to wait until 2029 to actually have it signed into law... but it would be there. Not to mention the end of Trump's plan to wreck the economy ( if we can last until Jan 2027 ).

That Dems would cave.

and the dems would have been held accountable for it.

The Repukes owned the shutdown by 60-40... the stance they took of leaving town, refusing to even talk about a deal... sealed it for everyone but the 35 percent MAGA who are owned by Trump.

and the last hungry child starves. Praise purity!

I worked for the federal government for 10 years.

I was a contractor during the Newt Gingrich shutdown... As a essential worker, I had to work without getting paid. I loved my job. So I could have left and made money working for some non-government related job... or stay on.

And, btw, the CONTRACTORS, unlike the civil servants, were NEVER paid for the shutdown period.

There is a fight going on in our country right now... the right wants a civil war... they want ICE and CBP to start shooting protesters... they want to declare US the "enemy within"... and marxist terrorists. That includes all of us here on DU. Pretty sure they will sick the DOJ on all of us... better hope your taxes are paid and documented perfectly.

I hope you don't need the ACA because we just gave it away. I had already contributed to help feed the SNAP card holders, and was prepared to help them even more. As for the federal workers... well, when it was done to me I turned from being fairly non-political to a rabid anti-repuke person... a vote blue no matter who... I think a number of federal workers from this shutdown would have done the same as I did.

Whether the government is shutdown or not, it is the Republicans who control the fate of these subsidies, and if they are determined to blow up the insurance market and kick millions off their coverage, they’ll have to face voters next November.

But the indefinite punishment of the federal workforce that some seem to crave is not just pointless it is cruel, and is not accomplishing anything but causing more pain.

Trump would never give in because he doesn't give a shit. The Republicans are going to held responsible for the cuts in healthcare in the midterms.

Dude is ruling by fiat and somehow he is going to carr about government being shut down?

That people would suffer under a year long gov shutdown? Of course there wold.

I dunno maybe I shouldn’t have come back to those site. It seems people just want to piss and moan about democrats and proclaim the end of everything.

There is very little to whine about as literally NOTHING has changed from yesterday to today except federal workers getting paid. The repubs still are on the hook (even more so now) so what is the issue other than Democrats running around with their hair on fire.

Good luck pissing yourselves. See how it works out I guess.

Respectfully. But this isn't even remotely serious - as either strategy, policy, or economic reality.

Cannot imagine what you are thinking.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

No government worker would remain. No SNAP, no government services, nothing for over a year

tRUmp would love to be king over a minimized and corrupted US govt

be no path to anything because we caved. They win every time. And the ACA is destroyed. Millions will die. We have lost healthcare. It was worth fighting for.

They were never going to bring it to a vote and they had the ability to say they couldn’t because of the shutdown. That doesn’t sit well with most voters especially those that get paid from the fed. Literally nothing has changed. The repubs still are to blame for it and they cannot blame their lack of a vote on the gov not being open.

Which includes the destruction of the ACA- bad call. I mean I feel for all the poor millionaires who’s planes were affected really. But I can’t help but feel that the ACA was much more important.

The plane thing was one of the many excuses employed to pass this terrible bill.

The ACA Subsidies (like EV Subsidies) were allowed to die ("Expire" ) via the Reconciliation Bill - Dems cannot stop Reconciliation Bills.

The goal of the GOP has been to destroy ACA any way possible from the moment it was passed. If they can't outright repeal it, it will be via a 1,000 cuts. Make it so dysfunctional that it might as well be dead.

At least now, America might notice that is happening.

included in the American Rescue Plan, and they were scheduled to expire this year unless extended. But there was never any way in Hell the GOP was going to agree to extend the existing subsidies past their expiration date; they've been trying to kill the ACA one way or another since it was passed. Was the reason for the shutdown to hold the GOP's feet to the fire they've always been willing to burn theselves up in? It's much harder to take away an existing benefit than it is to provide it in the first place, but evidently they would have been willing to keep the government shut down indefinitely, notwithstanding all the inevitable harm to millions of people and the economy in general. My question is, why did that handful of Dem senators finally agree to the funding bill? Was it the recognition that the GOP would gladly set the economy on fire and starve a few million children before they'd extend the ACA subsidies? Do they think some compromise extension can be negotiated? Some other reason? Cui bono? I'd like to understand, if someone can enlighten me.

I knew it was the ARP subsidies that were expiring.

I have no clue why the Centrist Cowards blinked.

shelve the ACA subsidies? You want to guess why some people are doing your little god damn handwringing dance? You got grandkids that depend on the insurance through the ACA? I do and they will not be able to afford insurance now.

before the crowd turns on you.

Many things were starting to turn on the dems including air travel and loss of wages. The shutdown did its job on informing the public of the R’s refusal to help Americans with healthcare costs, snap, etc.

Now the R’s are on their own with it without the ability to blame their lack of voting or extending on the Dems shutdown.

Cite any articles or research that support is was turning bad for the Dems. Appreciate it

And they had the excuse if the dems not opening the Gov to blame that on.

They would have had to deal in the face of mounting pressure and last week's elections.

Now they don't.

That simply isn’t true.

Of course they have to face that pressure. They are going ti be the ones that either vote it down or don’t vote at all and let it expire. And they won’t be able to point their finger at the boogeyman dems for shutting down the gov.

Why on earth would you think they won’t get heat for allowing people’s premiums to skyrocket??? But they would feel the heat of people’s premiums skyrocketing if the dems were keeping the gov from opening? it is the same thing except dems are out of the way.

If enough to the public got angry with them,

There was no reason for them to cave. The shutdown gave them the excuse to not cave. They wanted ACA gone from the moment it was born. Not caving meant that the extension simply expired.

Now it is solely on their plate.

If the polls started turning hard against them some might peel off hoping to save their own skins.

What the OP is advocating for is 1990s style triangulation. In essence their position is it’s worth letting the ACA die for a chance to use that as a bludgeon down the road. They hope the media will cover those stories and referee on our behalf, which is of course utterly ludicrous.

The ACA was passed 15 years ago in a much different political climate/landscape. What the OP, and others who are celebrating the capitulation as some sort of win don’t realize, is that it’s highly unlikely Democrats will ever be in the position to reconstitute the ACA again because the senate math is inherently more favorable to republicans. We’d need 60 seats.

In short, pre existing conditions, caps etc will eventually be eliminated as the ACA disintegrates.

Trump can screw things up enough to make that happen.

All he has to do is continue like he did before.

do you not understand? Republicans were happy to have the government shut down. They knew the public blamed them and didn't care. They were never going to change their minds. They've been dreaming of permanently shutting down the federal government for decades.

They surrendered a week after the elections. They are like a manila folder--dull and doing the same thing over and over.

But I'm not a federal worker. Or get snap benefits. Or depend much on the government for anything. It's easy for me to say hold the line until the last plane falls from the sky. But who feels it knows it. Cold hunger and no money to pay rent is an awful place to be. Sucks. But I get the cave Dems

unless you have a crystal ball no one in their right mind can say the shutdown wasn't a path to ACA extension because the dumbass turncoats put an end to it so I guess we will never know. What I do know is millions will lose their healthcare because of the dumbass turncoats, that you can be sure of.

Right?

ACA football.

And that a Republican's "word" is for the naifs of the world.

And that we would fight hard via the shutdown.

Then it turned out to all be a lie and a stunt.

I have literally hundreds of emails from people saying they needed my money to fight this fight.

Key problem is that the defectors/negotiators reinforced the biggest "brand," problem the Democratic Party has: Dems are Weak, and elevated "Trumpublicans are strong." And they did it at a crucial juncture.

We had more cards to play, had there been the will. One sort of interesting idea from Prof G to minimize the pain of airline chaos would have been to call for air traffic to be cut back by grounding all private jets (it takes as many air traffic control resources for a small private jet as a giant airliner). Private planes make up about 12% of the air traffic to fly 1% of the people. So, solve the traffic problem by inconveniencing only 1% of travelers.

Anyway, even the threat of that would get some very wealthy people on the phone to Republicans to break the stalemate. And if the felon's FAA refused, it's another, "they don't give a shit about you, only the wealthiest."

I have little doubt that creative minds could have found other ways to threaten or inflict shutdown pain the billionaires running the felon.

in the first place? This sets the Democrats up for blame for the entire fiasco. Bending over for Trump makes our party look worthless. This after the election blow out is obscene.

And a pretty weak narrative, at that. Even by the standards of wildly devoted fans.

I concur and share your puzzlement.

I don’t understand this position. Explain why we should have made this deal?! Please, I need to hear the philosophy here.

It gets us nothing. Do you really think MJ is going to hold a vote? We caved! It’s not just us Dems… we need independent votes on our side and this is just another loss for our party.

I’m sorry but I don’t share in the hope of some grand Dem plan that has yet to come.

...there is an opportunity for the eight to redeem themselves.

Until the cuts and harmful changes in the Murder Budget are implemented in an appropriations bill, they have no real effect.

The MAGA Murder Budget remains one of the most despised pieces of legislation in my memory -- and perhaps ever.

Democrats have a chance to fight like hell -- and to stick it out this time -- again in January.

Job One Right Now is pushing the Democrats in the House and Senate -- not just our own electeds, but the leadership too -- to define a set of demands to mitigate the most hated and harmful of the cuts and destructive changes to the rules in the MAGA Murder Budget "blueprint" that are scheduled for 2026. Along with declarations to fight as hard in 2027 against the cuts in Medicaid and SNAP.

Trumpublicans must be forced to defend the indefensible. And if they refuse to change course and step back on the worst things in that bill scheduled for 2026, we must bring all the pressure we can muster to convince the Senate Democratic caucus to shut down the government again.

Then it will be up to us to keep the pressure on to make sure the February shutdown ends in ONLY
one of two ways:

- Trumpublicans meet our demands.

- Trumpublicans invoke the nuclear option. If they won't change course and deviate from the "blueprint" let them take 100% responsibility for it by passing it with only their own votes.

People thinking otherwise are unfamiliar with how these Republicans operate.

And the Democrats folded. It’s that simple. The basic concept is Democrats shouldn’t vote for all this shit Trump is doing. Stealing our $$, power,dignity , way of life, police state. If you vote for it you endorse it. More pain for federal employees, travelers, etc means we are (were) finally showing the country how bad it is getting with fascists in charge. Democrats actually getting headlines for something other than pitiful whining. Now Trump can go on with whatever he was doing without having to worry about Democrats. Wow, great job guys, nice backbone. Way to inspire the populace to rise up. Or knuckle under.

For a show? That is just making excuses for these capitulators.

To add, Garland was the best AG EVER!

Unproven supposition.

I’ll believe it when Trump signs it. Still has to officially go through the House and I’m not totally convinced that Trump will sign it.

If they knew it was a waste of time and fruitless why did they use this strategy and
tell us to fight fight fight. Then tell us never mind, it was some sort of sick game.

It never served a purpose and they knew it.

In the US military someone would be courtmartialed for this.

Sometimes you cut your losses. Repubs can own their evil all on their own without being able to blame the dems for a shutdown.

They are responsible for the tactical and strategic response.

Real leaders take this responsibility seriously and admit and fix their errors.

but, any hope we had for the future has been squashed...which may have been the point, to ensure that our expectations remained "realistic" which actually means to expect nothing good for anyone with a net worth under a hundred million or so to come from our government....ever again.

And realized he was never going to cut a deal to reopen the government. He's a lame duck. He doesn't need the public's support. He doesn't care if people suffer. He doesn't care if the airlines go bankrupt (his billionaire friends will buy them for pennies on the dollar).

And I would say there are enough Republicans that are too chickenshit to do anything about it. Or maybe they are just as evil.

I don't know.

O'Donnell has been in the Senate luncheon meetings and knows how the Senate works. I agree with O'Donnell's assessment.

@lawrenceodonnell.msnbc.com: With Trump's shutdown ending, Dems are closer than ever to forcing Epstein files release youtu.be/Eqe0Suhoats?...

— The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell (@lastword.msnbc.com) 2025-11-11T04:47:54.019Z