It's the "starting the shutdown in the first place with zero chance of prevailing" part. Before it even started I had gamed this out as a bad plan, and that we'll end up caving, looking like fools, and pissing off 90% of our voters, and thus said, here and elsewhere, I hope Democrats don't shut the government down over this.

And people saying this (caving) was "Democrats plan all along" are really under my skin because that is the WORST message to convey. I don't know if it's true, or not, I doubt it? Either way, I'm sure as hell not publicly taking that angle.

The only saving grace in this fiasco is if Dem's can honestly convey that they TRIED. And remind people, Democrats gave the people the subsidies in the first place, and TRUMP/GQP are the ones taking them away. If you say Democrats were never actually sincere in trying? That will be viewed by way too many ignorant people as being "worse" than just having done nothing.

Obviously it's nothing compared to the insincerity and gaslighting that oozes from IQ47's pores day-in and day-out, but of course, our side is held to a completely different standard

... **HOW** much GOP didn't give a shit and at that we failed

I know other people will have their own definitions of what winning looks like but the lack of definition of winning going into this shutdown was a failure of communication of leadership

Would you have told our WWII generation not to use such tools had the Nazi factions (yes, they existed and were asserting themselves--do some reading if that comes as a surprise, go listen to Rachel Maddows' past podcasts) in THIS COUNTRY had taken an even stronger hold?

What is with this appeasement at all costs? Fucking FIGHT!

The American people WERE rightfully blaming R's for this shutdown, and the courts were behind us as well. No one on the Left likes government shutdowns, but CAPITULATION (announcing in ADVANCE that you won't ever act to fight in a way that ensures the R will shut down the government) is SURRENDER in ADVANCE.

from a different viewpoint. A government shutdown by Democrats in the minority in every front would be like the allies bombing their own cities or blockading their own ports.

As I said in the OP, Republicans hate government and shutting down the government is like holding your own kids hostage to force somebody who hates you and your kids to do something you want but they don't.

What the fuck does he care and the Republicans feel the same way about working people, the poor and government workers. They just don't care.

(devastatingly TIMED bill) that would ensure nothing imminent (health care subsidies, among others) WOULD be addressed. It was the ONLY leverage Dems had.

That YOU seem to believe that Dems DID shut down the government or voted FOR it shows that you are buying into RW-MAGA memes.


And resistance includes both our representatives standing up for us in CONGRESS, our votes (accomplished last Tuesday, but more to come), AND our SACRIFICE. I lost half my income during the shutdown. YOU? Tell me about YOUR sacrifice. It was worth it to me to save health care, but now my sacrifice was for naught--as that of countless others.

As to WWII analogy, you clearly do not know what I am referencing in terms of NAZISM in THIS COUNTRY during the period from the late 1930s to Pearl Harbor. Read some history, please.

Democrats voting to shut down the Government is not a winning strategy.

We are the party that believes Government can solve problems. The Republicans believe Government is the problem.

FDR and Churchill did demand purity from Stalin. They just wanted him to kill Nazis, as many as possible.

Whatever it takes to rectify the situation, I'm in favor of it.

How do we do that?

Tell them?! ... We don't own their amplification network so they lie insepently.

Outside of experience how does one communicate the horrid of GOP policies?

Some people have to touch the hot surface themselves, continuing to protect them from their own actions gets... Regressive

...could have stopped this shutdown anytime they wanted to, but that's not the point...

...didn't those Dems know where this was going...?

...why start something like this if you're not going to finish it...?

...why didn't Schumer ask the turtle for some advice...?

...the turtle seemed to be pretty good at leveraging minority status...

...oh welll...