...lol back at you.

Your loss, not mine.

That's the sort of thing that people who have spent too much time inside of politics, and too little time being one of those 15M, would do.

...now firmly established in the public's view that republicans have been completely in control of that since before the shutdown.

That's due to the success of both Democratic leaders and others in making it appear to be a consequence of the shutdown by prioritizing it in every statement and appearance.

I'm sure they both recognized the value of that advocacy and focus was unlikely to result in republicans just giving something away that they had already refused to just because Americans were hurting, just as republicans had intended.

So we postponed the fight until after the holidays. Republicans can still do the thing they haven't yet done, and no federal worker, no person relying on the government for their basic needs has to sacrifice those things for the politics, at least over the holidays.

The most interesting development is that the vote scheduled on the ACA subsidies will occur after higher premiums have already gone into effect a few weeks previous. I don't know what people expected republicans to care about a government they don't appreciate and are trying to end, enough to bend on an ACA tax credit they didn't want for Americans in the first place.

The ONLY lever the party has is a people-powered elevation of the issue, and they've pulled a hat trick on that one, making it the most important issue today when NO one was prioritizing it. Not to mention the Schumer-Biden feat of forcing this vital benefit into a reconciliation budget during the pandemic, knowing full well that the temporary credit would be politically fraught for anyone trying to remove it.

That's not shutdown politics, it's advocacy that stretches from the creation of the tax benefit to the showdown over the expiration deadline. Even though the shutdown aided the politics through the deftness of our party leaders, it's not the end game. It never was, banking on republicans caring about the pain caused to anyone in their way.

This is now down to their relationships with their own voters, not Democrats ready to bail them out of the hot water that Schumer and Jeffries have drawn for them to drown in.

Let them own it. We are in the minority, we are not required to govern.

...at the same levels, except for an increase in SNAP benefits that they negotiated?

I dunno, they waited some 40 days and basically just got the paychecks rolling to their federal worker constituents, and other money and assistance that the government provides when it's open through the holidays.

No using them as pawns while the rest of us maintain our own livelihoods throughout the confrontation.

It's not as if that was moving republicans to act, anyway. The real movement will come when their constituents who saddled us with Trump start to suffer.

Tragic that we have to as well, but we'll have to see if republicans care about that because the vote on the ACA extension is scheduled for a few weeks AFTER the rates go up for their voters as well as our own.

There's nothing prev4enting the fight from continuing in January while we pump up the politics in the interim.

It's not as if there was some certain outcome from the shutdown, other than this hat trick where the Dem leaders made health care the most salient issue being discussed.

Your old road is rapidly aging; get out of the new one if you can’t lend a hand…

PS - posting complete transcripts is a copyright violation- you should edit your post down to the legal limit of 4-5 paragraphs, to protect DU from lawsuits (DU has been sued in the past, which is the reason for the rule)

...there's zero in what you responded with that addresses any of the issues, much less the politics which favors Democrats right now.

Unfortunately, it seems so many think this fight begins and ends with the minority of members Democrats managed to elect.

If you can't do the maths that get us to a Democratic majority, it stands to reason you can't do the politics that get us there...

And Dems will win a clear and solid majority in the house next year.

As for the senate and its hallowed traditions, voters in general don’t GAF- they want results.

PS- nobody can “force” the release of the Epstein files. The discharge petition merely forces a vote on an unenforceable resolution calling for the release of the files.

...and they need more than rhetoric that dances around that math.

Again, none of what you wrote adresses anything I posted, or what Lawrence took the time to relate from his years in the Senate staff, much of it working side by side with Sen. Moynihan when I was a young man.

I don't really have time or interest to dance around what I took the tiime to post. Take a listen, or don't.

I’m personally thrilled that Trump is currently telling voters what they “need to understand.” It works SO WELL.

...to decide what they want and then do what it takes to get it.

It's fucking that simple. A binary system of government, but the internet and media will tell you that they're a political entity that knows something something, instead of the people doing the actual work, like we're going to vote in a year on their podcasts instead of endeavor to achieve a majority.

If you muddle that reality with bullshit, you'll get the same result as the last time people thought diverting from fighting republicans to navelgaze and dissemble was some genius political move.

..stepping back out again...

Again, as I told the poster above, this kind of reply doesn't address the op at all, and I don't have time or interest to dance around the effort I chose to relate here (or Lawrence and what he related from his own years of actual experience in the halls of Congress).

Like I said, it’s a tactic I am quite happy to see Trump adopting.

...I'm not a pundit or a campaign operative.

I'm a retired person writing from home.

I'm not trying for a Pulitzer, I've laid down some facts, and you got my feel on them.

I'm afraid that my feels are inseparable from what I write.

No apologies, no regrets.

They don’t care about any of Lawrence’s waxing nostalgic about the days of old in the senate.

Voters want results, and “traditions” like the filibuster are obstacles to producing results.

The next couple of cycles, in 2026 and 2028 will likely see a seismic shift in politics-as-usual, and an abandonment of “traditions” that have stood in the way of getting shit done .

...you're representing petulant people who can't be bothered to look to see how their government works and blaming the people who are doing the actual job for those same voter's refusal to give them the tools they need to do the fucking job.

I'd tell them to fucking elect Democrats, not the fascist that's trying to end you.

I'm not their goddamn parent, but they need to grow the fuck up or just accept the shithole they allowed to happen.

You present voters as spoiled children, that's the response you get from me.

It’s not spoiled for voters to expect results from their elected officials, instead of gridlock and inertia.

The only tools congress needs are the courage to remove the filibuster, and then the courage to pass laws that serve and protect the people- then government will “work”.

“That’s how government works” has been an excuse for far too long, and, if indivisible’s primary challenge campaign is successful, not for much longer.

"One of the many congressional committees that held hearings on the Clinton health care plan was Senate Finance, headed by Moynihan. His chief of staff was Lawrence O'Donnell ... . 'At the end of the last of the two dozen hearings on the indescribably complex Clinton healthcare bill,' O'Donnell told me, 'I'm sitting behind Chairman Moynihan, and he puts his hand over his microphone and turns over his shoulder and whispers to me, 'Why don't we just delete the words 'age 65' from the Medicare statute?'"

Kurt Andersen "Evil Geniuses"

...off his shoulders

or almost nothing could be posted on this site. Google's YouTube has contracted permissions from MSNBC to use their videos. Google's YouTube policy is to take down a video if the owner makes complaint of copyright infringement. That's it.

Copyright is protected regardless of whether the reproduction is for personal or commercial use (and posting on a site the generates revenue from ads makes it commercial use in any case); Read the FBI warning at the beginning of every DVD if you don’t believe me.

Fair use only permits a short excerpt, not a lengthy cut and paste of a transcript.

I encourage you to review DU’s TOS for more information on this issue- to reiterate, DU was sued for this very type of copyright infringement in the past.

Pretty EarlG is experienced enough with his business to already have informed big if this were a problem.

So now what. You gonna report this?

Thanks for the transcript!

Unbelievable.

then what other facts is he dead wrong about?

wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Glenn

Military service
Branch/service

United States Navy
United States Marine Corps

After Pearl Harbor, Glenn first tried to sign up with the Army Air Force – but instead ended up as a Naval Aviation Cadet. He transitioned to the Marine Corps, though, and was sent to the South Pacific.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/john-glenn-combat-career/

"I was doing test work for about four years. I lucked into that, too, because ... it was the first of the Navy and Marine supersonic fighters, and attack aircraft were just being tested, and that's when I hit Patuxent [Naval Air Station, Maryland]," said Glenn. "It was a great time to be there. ... I came off test duty and was assigned to the old Bureau of Aeronautics in Washington as a project officer. ... About six or seven months after that was when they started looking for astronauts, and I immediately volunteered.

https://allhands.navy.mil/Stories/Display-Story/Article/1840493/john-glenn/

He was known as a Marine. And he died a Marine. PERIOD!!!

...you're really digging into this nothing.

It's almost like you don't want to talk about the point Lawrence was making about Glenn..

It's as if you want to distract from that.

You insinuate that he got other things wrong, other than this hair-slitting quibble over classification, but you haven't bothered in any of these several posts to make a case against the other things you've cast aspersions against him for.

And you claimed he was just a Marine, basically denying his service in the Navy, which Lawrence admittedly muddled.

You were also inaccurate. Just own it. It doesn't negate any of the points he made.

You own it. Glenn was a Marine and that's all there is to it. He regarded himself a Marine, he fought in combat as a Marine, and went into space as a Marine. He became a Marine before his flight training was even finished. He was given his wings as a Marine. To deny him that he was a Marine is an insult to his legacy and spin. You seem to not be able to accept that Lawrence was wrong. So my point is, if he was wrong about Glenn, what else is he wrong about or trying to spin?

I have no use for sloppy journalists.

is his opinion, not facts. None of us are privy to the facts at this point. I don't agree with his opinion.

Lawrence:

That is what I'm referring to. It's his opinion and I don't agree with it.

Now please, I'm done.

...Lawrence:

"A total of 271 Republicans who changed their positions and are now supporting a version of a budget bill that they said they would never support."

Caved.

And he needs that many words to so thoroughly obfuscate.

I will never understand people who are PickMe for power. Never. It's so baffling.

I listened to both men last night. Totally different takes. I really wish they'd interview each other.

But I still don’t see the relevance of the Epstein files. Everyone seems to think that once they are released, or opened, trump will be toast. Not gonna happen. What am I missing?

but he did not convince me last night. His "A block" kind of reminded me of urges I have occasionally to advise teachers who are teaching now (I retired recently) about successes I had in the past with certain techniques. Fortunately, I have enough self-awareness to realize that things have probably changed (in fact, I know they have) so I don't go there unless asked. That being said, he made a good point about replacing Schumer. Those calling for his replacement are not offering to run for his position. In other words, they are not putting their money where their mouths are. I find that compelling evidence about how difficult and thankless the job is.

While I might not agree with him on all issues, I am willing to consider what he has to say, especially since he as more experience working as a senate staffer than anyone else I know of.

My sense is that it is too soon to know what will come of this. I am leery of expecting Republicans to deal in good faith but also not really optimistic that the Dems would get what they wanted by holding out. It certainly feels bad that some Democrats and an independent "caved." I don't know what to make of it in terms of logical analysis.

While I question whether Chuck Schumer is the right person for the job as minority leader, I don't expect that he has that much power over all those senators in the coalition. As Lawrence said, it has always been like herding cats.

Thank you for posting this

Although I don't agree with Lawrence regarding Chuck Schumer, not even close, I do think there is something to be said about educating people that the Democrats got something out of the deal, no matter how minor it may seem.

Yes, it's infuriating that the Democrats caved once again, but I can also see that there is nothing to be gained by saying the Democrats got nothing at all.

The GOP constantly fools its voters by saying the sky is blue and it's sunny when it's actually raining. They get their voters to vote against their own interests time and time again. Heck, they got a 34-time convicted felon, rapist, and the man behind an insurrection re-elected.

I don't know the answer, other than that Democrats need to figure out a way to get much better messaging, and way ahead of the game. Bitching and moaning after the fact, much like I've been doing, isn't going to help win the midterms. I know that caving to the GOP demands isn't going to help either, but that horse has left the barn.

He wants us to believe that there is some greater strategy in play or that Schumer et al. are playing the long game that will somehow be a winner for us all. Well, I call BS. I think they're flailing and have no more idea how to beat the Repukes at this game than the average Joe on the street. They certainly have no idea how to explain themselves. Angus King saying we can't beat Pumpkinhead at this game; Jean Sheehan saying she trusts the Repukes to hold her magical vote? PLEASE!

Lawrence is a former Senate staffer, as he loves to remind us, and I think he'd love to return to that job. It certainly seemed like an audition for it to me.

...they need to keep up.

The fight has shifted to the House.

today:

House Democrats Fight On to Save Healthcare

Today, Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries and First-Term House Democrats from across the country spoke to press in the steps of the Capitol about their ongoing fight to save healthcare for the American People.

watch: