Great thread.

or hear hear
or
+1

The point he was trying to make was Patriotism is about how we support and treat each other, and not performative gestures made with inanimate objects. It is something the right never understood and never will.

I don't need the flyovers. They are cool. But I don't need them. I would rather have our soldiers, and our civilians as well, treated well, because that's what people deserve.

the ‘flyovers’ as part of the required ‘air-time’ training for our military (‘Hey, if we’ve gotta’ do it, let’s make some kinda’ show out of it!”). But really, giant flags that use enough material to clothe hundreds of people that were devastated by floods or storms - come on, show the flag on the ginormous screen, play the Jimmy Hendrix version of the National Anthem, send all the money saved to the VA to help the true patriots that give it up for us.

Agree 100%!

when making deliveries in a red area, it pisses a few off, but for the most part, I get winks, nods, smiles, thumbs up and compliments.

I belong to VetsAgainstTrump,

https://vetsagainsttrump.org/

?v=f1983067
Trump is waging war on veterans— all while cashing in and calling them "suckers and losers" behind closed doors.
Nearly a fifth of VA jobs — targeted for elimination. Frontline care crippled. Wait times explode. Veterans left behind.
VASP — terminated. 17,000+ veterans ambushed and at risk of losing their homes.
Project 2025 — a tactical strike on disability benefits. Claims slashed. Denials surge. Wounds ignored. Veterans left to bleed.
Veteran support programs — casualties of war. AmeriCorps gunned down. Meals on Wheels gutted. Federal hiring freezes keeping hardworking veterans from continuing their service to country.
This isn't making America great again. It’s scorched earth. It's treasonous.
Veterans deserve better than betrayal from their own Commander in Chief.

... many of us joined to serve and protect our nation and families

Folks in uniform bear the hardships and risks of war.

The soldier's prayer is dona nobis pacem - give us peace.

regard war with anything even remotely resembling "like".

I last heard a shot fired in anger in 1971, and while I don't believe that my mental state amounts to PTSD, I still occasionally awaken entangled in sweat-soaked sheets after one of a couple of recurring nightmares.

don't send them to war unless absolutely necessary and fully support them when they come back no matter what. We have failed at the first since the end of WWII and failed at the second point since the Revolutionary War.

Tent cities, promised war bonuses not given, they were homeless, hungry and not given what they were promised. The Fat Cat US Businessmen tried to prevent FDR's election by exploiting their misery.

The rich businessmen (people like JP Morgan) tried to snooker a very popular general who came up thru the ranks into leading WWI veterans in a rebellion so they could pull off a coup. General Smeldly Butler played dumb and pretended to go along with the plan to get more info on what they were doing then he blew the whistle on them before Congress.

Really good book:
The Plot To Seize The White House
by Jules Archer (Author)

since the Revolutionary war!

But it is part of their job, like other dangerous jobs.

I agree, I hate the military at sporting events.
Being active duty is not a damn sporting event, a game.

And most military I know are humble and don't need constant adoration
and attention.

They want some basic respect for a deadly and hard job.
And humble recognition for the sacrifice.
Which means the promised benefits at the end of the career.

well said.

You had a dangerous job while active duty yet you tell people it was safe and no big deal.

When I know you could have been killed at any moment.

You downplay it.
Don't want accolades or attention about it.

But you don't want the president putting you down,
denigrating you, and cheating you out of what you were promised.

Ever since Ike, the Republicans haven't given a wit about the soldiers and sailors. Esp when it came to financing any help the may need due to traumatic injuries, being maimed, or their brains scrambled in fighting.......

Interesting that IKE warned us about wars and the Military Industrial Complex. He also had this famous quote/statement/speech about his party....

"If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right, and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power"
Dwight Eisenhower
March 6th, 1956

So glad to see you join in the conversation.

Thanks for all you have done while in the US Army and as a civilian.

In the early summer, there's a Pow Wow I go to in Grand Rapids, MI. It's held in a park along the Grand River and is across the street from a home for veterans. Native Veterans are always the first to lead the Grand Entry of dancers when the Pow Wow begins. Then they go to the veteran's home to drum and sing them an honor song before a bunch of us prepare a big meal for the residents.

I remember doing this about 30 years ago, and a Vietnam veteran came up to me, tears running down his cheeks, and told me, "This is the first time anybody has ever honored my service and I'm ashamed it came from the very people my ancestors stole land from and tried to eliminate. Thank you from the bottom of my heart."

I'm sure he's long gone, but I will never forget the look on his face and the words he spoke. We don't like war either, but if it comes to that, we should never forget their service.

I agree that we have an obligation to these people.

But we also have an obligation to take care of everyone else.

The only reason we don't is because the rich and powerful call all the shots.

We could easily pay for universal healthcare for all people in the US if the wealthy and corporations paid a fair share.

It doesn't help to alter the conditions that lead to your complaint to call everyone in the military a "warrior".

or used something like "members of the military" instead.

I was thinking "service people", but your idea works great.

"All Tip, no Spear"
Damn idiot doesn't understand what makes great militaries is not so much strength and "lethality", but the logistics, support infrastructure, inter-operability of systems, and intelligence/initiative of the average military member.
Take away the support infrastructure, and diversity of talents for a rush to operations and "Uniform Soldier Man", and you get what Kegsbreath thinks the military should be.
A GI Joe doll.

I agree with everything in your post.

was created to remove the human cost of war from the books.

I’m not a big fan of sending off the military to secure resources for oligarchs and corporations.

But if we’re going to do this and not even include the people doing the fighting and dying in the spoils, the least we can do is take care of them when they’re done.

How about K-12 public school teachers? I want to see a business that has reserved parking for school teachers or that gives them a special discount. We need a national holiday to honor these people.

I've been offended... as a Veteran, and as an American. Granted, today it doesn't take much to get my dander up... not after living through 10 years of trump and his particular love of cruelty and sadism. But these commercials to me simply monetize our veterans. They tell me the U.S. government, which sent them to war, doesn't think enough of them enough to bind up their wounds and make them whole. These commercials tell me the government is simply throwing our veterans to the corporate wolves, that's all their service was worth.

Like so many other veterans of all the different wars we've fought, I've had to listen to trump denigrate and degrade us. And then, out of the other side of his mouth, "honor" us as "warriors"... like the best thing you can aspire to is the ability to kill another human being. There is no love of country coming out of his mouth... no ideal like freedom and democracy for everyone... just killing. Sometimes it takes a stronger warrior to know when to walk away, and when to give all in a fight.

But I also see these commercials as evocative of what is becoming big business in the U.S. - the beggarization of the country. People with medical bills, or other situations where they're caught up short using GoFundMe like older folks might have used loan companies. I don't blame them for trying this route... I've had to resort to it once, myself. But it's getting to be put out there more as a option for people to use, and it's still backed by corporate entities.

I admit I wear my heart on my sleeve. The suffering around me, or shown to me on the screen, gets to me big time. I will actually leave the room when one of the ASPCA commercials come on. And the cancer hospitals for kids. It just seems like we're getting pushed into boxes by marketers and then our feelings played on to the worst degree.

When I worked and had money, I did give monthly to the ASPCA. But knowing they can't be everywhere, and that a good portion of my donations was headed to corporate and administrative offices, I did my own work and rescued critters on my own. I paid vet bills and had surgeries for animals in dire distress and THEN worked to find them forever homes. These commercials make it seem like all you have to do is throw money at the business advertising and all the ills will be gone. It's a salve; the work afterwards is what's important.

My understanding of ASPCA is that they rescue animals but then turn them over to local animal shelters where the actual feeding and care of the starving animals takes place. I give to my local animal shelter a couple of times a year.

It seems strange to me that ALL it takes to solve these problems is a $19.95 monthly donation to these beggarization groups. .

Bernie is right of course, that we must take care of every person that we put into battle, regardless of whether the cause is just or not. That must be a given.

But we should be discussing what are just wars. I don't think anybody would deny that WWII was a just war. And there are certainly tactical missions that are just. Most people would agree the mission to try to free the Iranian hostages was just, as was the mission to kill Osama bin Laden. Was Kosovo just? Probably. VIetnam? No way.

What about Iraq and Afghanistan? There might have been some just causes somewhere in there, but not for the KIND of war we fought. And Ukraine is showing that the traditional kinetic confrontations are not the way to fight wars in the 21st Century. We must lead a change where it is possible to question whether actions are just while still honoring every soldier who finds himself or herself on the business end of orders.

One of the 14 points of fascism is

This is, and should be, a government responsibility.

However we clearly do not have a responsible government.

I think the soldier-worship in this country has really gone overboard since the Gulf War. The military-industrial complex is still a very real thing, and it's a problem without a countervailing force. That said, I respect those who choose to serve, and we absolutely MUST provide for any care they need as a result of their service--and it should NOT have to come from private charity!

My 2cts.

... of a Republican neighbor was refused benefits for PTSD, I suggested he call Bernie's office. He refused to do that, spouting a lot of right-wing horse shit. So I called on his son's behalf, since he was a close friend of our son, and they enlisted in the Marines at the same time.
Bernie came through, and the kid got his benefits. His father wouldn't even call to thank Bernie, thus ending our friendship, which had already become tenuous with his support of Bush the Lesser and his bullshit war with Iraq.

the U.S. Flag Code states the American flag should never touch anything beneath it, including the ground, floor, or water, as this is considered disrespectful and risks soiling or damaging the symbol of the nation. It should always be carried aloft and free, not flat or horizontally, though it can be displayed flat against a wall or in a window as long as the union (stars) is uppermost and to the flag's own right (observer's left).