And who wants that more than anyone else in the world?

Putin.


Read between the lines.

Xi Jinping and any other adversary of the United States and the West. They all know this will lead to catastrophic consequences for the U.S. and every one of our current allies. America will become isolated.

If it happens, the champagne corks will be popping in Moscow and Beijing.

I can't believe there still aren't some old line Republicans raised on the "better dead than red" meme who aren't viscerally opposed to playing into Russia and China's hands. Not saying we should put our fate on those folks hands - just that we need every ally in this fight against this insane monster.

... that ALL of Trump's obscene crimes serve a dual purpose: They are petty retribution against those who refuse to kiss his fat, pimply ass, and they serve Putin's psychotic wet dream to bring America to its knees from within, thanks to his Useful Idiot, Donald J. Trump.
There is absolutely NO doubt that trump is a traitor; the proof is overwhelming. A 3rd-grader could connect the dots. But those who have the power to stop him... won't. So it's time to put their feet to the fire. Update your resumés, Republicans; we're coming for you, and there is no possibility of escape. You. Are. Toast. Every last fucking one of you are going down.
There aren't words to describe how much I hate these people. They HAVE to pay for their treachery, and none of this Pollyanna "truth and reconciliation" bullshit. They'll just slither away, sniggering in the shirtsleeves, then turn around and do it all again. Just meaner and bloodier.

fills my mind, and it literally sickens me.

Will we need to be ruined in order for our own people (my own brother is included in that) to realize what they have done to us?

I am just praying for some light in the darkness.

But Republicans are all in on him. Literally nothing, even starting a war with Europe and the rest of the world, will matter at all. Not even a little. They will twist it to be all Europe's fault and demand we nuke them or some crazy shit.

Also, don't think for a second the military wouldn't do it because they are 100% behind him too. It's a giant death cult to end the world.

They desperately want it to happen.

In the past week, we have seen numerous Republicans defect and pushback against Trump on various issues in both floor votes and public statements, including about Greenland.

If the EU starts selling off its treasury bonds and the US dollar is on the verge of collapse, not to mention seizing/banning US companies, donations to republicans will evaporate, and the pressure from the financial elites for congress to rein Trump in or remove him altogether will be tremendous.

Let’s take Musk, for example- If Tesla is blocked from doing business in Europe, Starlink is shut down, and X is banned, what do you think his position will be?

Now ask Jeff Bezos, Tim Cook, Peter Theil, Jamie Dimon, etc. Their supplication to Trump will flip in a heartbeat if European retaliation becomes a bigger threat to their bottom line than Trump’s wrath.

There are only a small number of true die hard Trump cultists among Republicans in congress and among the financial elites- most are just opportunists or terrified scaredy-cats. When the heat ramps up, they will flee like the cowardly rats we always knew them to be.

Up to this point they could shrug off Trump’s worse impulse because it didn’t impact them personally and business/politics was still soaring in their favor, but an invasion of Greenland would end that overnight.

Hopefully they will use their leverage before it’s too late for them or us.

PS- you must have missed the reports yesterday that JCOS pushed back on Trump order to develop plans for an invasion of Greenland, saying it would be illegal, as well as past reports of National Guard CO’s stating they would refuse to order troops to use force against Americans (Oregon commander specifically, but others made similar comments).

Yes, some have followed orders of questionable legality, using justifications from Trump’s Yes Men JAGs as legal cover, but I think you do a great disservice to both the military and the general morale of the resistance by using such a broad brush to smear the entire armed forces. They aren’t “100% behind” Trump, and your “giant death cult to end the world” comment is way over the top.

PPS- you might want to go furniture shopping for a new chair, as the one you’ve got seems to be clouding your perceptions.

PPPS- Breathe. We’re each going to need all the stamina we can muster to get through this.

In Republicans and the military than I do.

History teaches a very different lesson. The military has never hesitated to commit war crimes or murder innocent people.
Republicans are literally standing by, even supporting, this administration is grinding the city of Minneapolis to dust.

The tech billionaires have been building bunkers for a reason. They are not exactly vacation spots.

I have zero faith in Republicans or the military to do the right thing.

nm

nm

By what mechanism would Congress "remove him immediately"? I'm pretty sure there's no mechanism for Congress to remove a president other than impeachment. Perhaps you believe that an impeachment and removal could take place with some sort of instantaneity, but I know of no history that supports that proposition.

As for the 25th, the VP assumes the presidency immediately upon the submission to Congress of the declaration of inability.

But then, when the president submits a counterdeclaration (and surely you do not believe that would not be instantly forthcoming from Miller), the president is president again and the same crew has to resubmit the declaration of inability and then Congress has to decide the issue. That's all supposed to happen on an accelerated timeline. You may be right that it would happen very quickly.

But the article to which you are responding says the dire results would be truly instantaneous. And irreversible.

Anyway, as you are wont to chide people for not explaining how, for instance, Trump might cancel elections, I'm sure you have some basis for asserting that Congress can immediately remove a president. I eagerly anticipate being educated.

You know how impeachment works, and yes it would take some time, but not as much time as Trump’s or Clinton’s previous impeachments. It probably could be done within 30-45 days under the extreme circumstances described above, if not quicker. Remember, impeachment is not a legal proceeding, and Trump’s typical delay tactics would not affect a truly determined congress.

If an order to invade was imminent, the 25th amendment might need to be used to forestall or countermand such an order. From Wikipedia:

I was just asking about your assertion that all of this would happen "immediately," especially how you might get congress to immediately remove the president, what with there being no mechanism that allows that.

I guess when you said "immediately," you meant "pretty quickly," rather than instantaneously.

As for your beliefs about saber rattling and warnings, remind me how many sabers rattled before the U.S. kidnapped Maduro. I'm thinking the number was pretty close to zero, so I'm not sure why you're so certain it would be different in Greenland.

BTW: You're unnecessarily undercutting your own argument when you say the 25th buys Congress 21 days. If you read Section 4 carefully, you'll see that Congress is mandated to act within 48 hours of the second declaration even if Congress is not in session.

Since you are positing a Congress champing at the bit to remove the rogue president, it could, under the provisions of the 25th, happen much more rapidly than 21 days, and you're saying Congress would do it.

But you said that Congress alone could remove him immediately. That is simply incorrect.

On edit:

As to your words that you cannot find, here they are, from post 3:

A Quick Look at a globe will reveal that Venezuela is located in South America, not Europe. Europe has much more leverage to impose consequences on the US, such as threatening to sell off Treasury bonds or expel US businesses from the EU.

Reports over the weekend say EU leaders are in talks about potential responses; Starmer says he is considering deploying UK troops to Greenland.

As for the 25th, there is some gray area in that 48 hour/four day timeline (and it’s never been tested before ), but I imagine it could potentially unfold this way:

VP and cabinet send declaration to congress;
Miller immediately sends reply;
VP and cabinet immediately send their reply, triggering the 21 day window.

If, at the end of the 21 day window, congress hasn’t acted, or finished its process, I see nothing that would prohibit a repeat of the above steps/timeline to keep Trump out of power but, as I said, it’s never been tested. It does seem fairly clear that SCOTUS has no role in this process.

I directly quoted your post, #3 in this thread. Here's a direct link: https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20931981

I even put the word immediately in the bolded section.

Here is a cut/paste from my comment 27 in this thread:

You have a bright future in proofreading.

Now that you’ve parsed that single word in my response to the OP, did you also glean the broader context of my post describing the tremendous pressure that would come to bear on Congress to act with all due haste?

"38. I just reread all my comments in this thread, and I don't find the word "immediately" anywhere"

"Without facts, you can't have truth."

Or is this a case of rules for thee, but not for me?

But I’m not.

As you follow me around from thread to thread, you appear to be the only one to have such a HUGE problem with my occasional lack of exactness, a flaw that doesn’t obscure the point of my posts, or reduce or negate the factual substance of the information I’m sharing (as opposed to the substance free defeatist posts that I frequently challenge, that spread doomerism, misinformation and negativity about imagined future dystopian fantasies/nightmares, such as cancelling the elections, without bothering to offer a single scintilla of information of justhow they might actually happen).

You seem primarily driven by the need to argue and harass, rather than engage in an exchange of opinions and ideas.

You’ll excuse me if I’m not eager to engage with you in the future.

It’s humanizing because we’ve all been there, but funny nonetheless.

The more likely outcome is what they have already done thousands of times after he does something horrible - not just bend the knee, but over compensate by making it out to be the greatest thing in the history of the US and scream how much we hate America for objecting. They will make whatever negative ramifications occur about how the libs did or didn't do this or that and how whoever does it are scumbags because of this or that.

In days gone by

I want the Trump surname to be so toxic, so instantly disqualifying, that 250 years from now it is seen as the most evil name in United States history.

This would be the end of our country.

The U.S. already has bases at troops in Greenland per a 1951 treaty with Denmark. None of the other things stated will happen either. Some new treaty or other bargain will be struck and Trump will essentially get away with it like he always does. What you describe is hypothetical and more fantasy than reality.

which provides everything we need WRT national security. While it's unlikely that Trump will actually try to take over Greenland using military force, I wouldn't put anything past him. This piece describes a worst-case scenario in which there is a military invasion, which would be resisted by Denmark (and they've already said they'd do that), which would also mean the invocation of NATO Article 5, with the likely results as described. Again, not my analysis, but food for thought. There are a lot of things we didn't think Trump would do that he has done.

But based on Europe's lackluster resistance to Trump's previous behavior, there are other scenarios. They may decide to just ride out a temporary occupation of Greenland, waiting for a complete reversal that could occur three years from now. That doesn't sound like a very good bet but it does seem more consistent with Europe's weak-kneed handling of Trump so far.

The writing is on the wall for western Europe, though, just as it is for Canada. In a new world order, where might-makes-right, they will need a closer Political Union and a common military force to present a strong deterrence (both conventional and nuclear).

At the present moment, they should be shouting threats to do the very things described in the worst case scenario. They should dump some US debt right now as a warning signal. France, Germany, Britain, Spain, and Italy should deploy token defensive forces to Greenland. The US is using the threat of military force to pressure Denmark into a "Deal". That is assault with a deadly weapon.

the Law of the Land, and the US military has a sworn duty top to bottom to refuse unlawful orders per the US Constitution and all U.S. treaties.

If "none of this is going to happen" it's for those reasons, not those you opine on.

This would be such a clear cut illegal order, made when we are obviously not threatened. i had given up hope that the military would refuse any orders--at least abroad. But they might not do this.
I also hold out hope that they won't fire on American peaceful protesters. But in the heat of the moment, I'm afraid some would and some wouldn't--don't know how that plays out.
The Greenland thing though. There's time to make this case to the military--starting now.

You say they might not do this, but so far no order to invade an ally under NATO has been given, and so this will be the US military's point of refusal. I think you can feel confident about that.

Were the U.S. Military to break the law and follow the felon's order to attack a NATO ally, then the USA commits an act of war, at which point all foreign treaties are rendered null and void, and the USA becomes a rogue state sponsor of terrorism internationally.
The U.N. can eject the USA from its security council. Other serious international trade consequences will follow.

saying his colleages in the Senate including Republicans won't support military action against Greenland. Of course, the relevance of Congress these days is questionable so your analysis helps.

attacking a NATO ally is not up to Congress alone. Trump will ignore Congress, which votes too slowly to have any impact, anyway.


THE most important thing for Americans to know is that Trump and/or Hegseth CANNOT FORCE the US Military -- the largest, most powerful military on Earth -- to do anything unlawful like break an international Treaty through military attack --
whether Congress weighs in or not, and whether Trump, Hegseth, or both, order an attack on a NATO ally or not.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, an American diplomat offered to show Charles DE Gaulle the classified evidence which underlay the US response. His response, "I trust the American President."
I fear those days are gone already.

The people of Greenland & Canada should launch a class-action lawsuit against the US for tRump's terror campaign against us.
tRumps invasion threats cause emotional harm, loss of sleep & loss of real estate value in the billions of $ b/c no one want's to move to a country that might be invaded.

The people of Greenland & Canada should launch a class-action lawsuit against the US for tRump's terror campaign against us.
tRumps invasion threats cause emotional harm, loss of sleep & loss of real estate value in the billions of $ b/c no one want's to move to a country that might be invaded.

— (@fordskrackpipe.bsky.social) 2026-01-12T16:41:54.207Z

Trump is the perfect reflection of the dipshit hillbilly redneck morons who voted for him: stupid and easily manipulated. Imagine hating a black President, and the thought of a female, or woman of color President so much, that you would rather see the United States utterly destroyed. I can't even comprehend that level of fecklessness.

and wonder if she regrets leading the "burn it all down" mantras of 2016.

media platform, particularly Facebook, is another critical tell.

For analysis to be analysis, one must ground it with a plausible premise based on real historical precedent.
There is NO precedent for the U.S. military attacking a NATO ally. Nor is there any precedent for the felon ordering a military attack on a NATO ally.
So the rest is "clear and concise" hypothetical, and given that it's on FB, probably posted by a fearmongering doom scroller.

Regardless of this poster's supposed neutral tone, this content is the hyping of baseless fear.

The repercussions will be as bad as Ocelot II predicts and worse. He failed to mention the consequences vis-a-vis China and Russia.

And don't bother replying because I have no intention debating someone so poorly informed.

Have a nice day.

Ocelot II predicts based on a hypothetical. Ocelot II can believe what s/he wants.
Furthermore I'm as well informed on what's happening, and not happening, as anyone here.

So I'm bothering to reply, so don't bother to read this, either, since you don't want to think about how threat is not force, and a USA takeover of Greenland is not gonna happen.

Or joke about it. But at the same time I don't know what else anyone can do. There is no preparation that will help you here unless you are already off grid and self sufficient and have the skill set and health to survive if and when society collapses...and it will.

Other than that it's a death sentence for most people. Most people will starve or die of thirst within a couple weeks. Especially in urban areas.

Get you a way to purify water and seeds to grow your own food. Beans and vegetable-based sources of protein are important because meat will become very hard to get unless you already have animals of your own.

Be safe out there.

The POS will back down, not for any of the catastrophic reasons you give above, but because he doesn't want to lose the Olympics and the World Cup (FIFA gave him a peace price, wtf)

This could be it. If even half of what is predicted comes true, it would be devastating.

But of course, the reality would (or will) be somewhere on the lower end of that spectrum. It seems hard to believe that Europe and NATO are ready to dissolve our relationship over Greenland.

They would first respond with a "Susan Collins."

And you could see sanctions and tariffs being imposed, but it seems unlikely that the rest of NATO or even the EU would have a large appetite for going to war with the U.S.--which is what would have to happen to kick us out of our European military bases.

You can also see moves to hurt the dollar and call in some U.S. debt happening if no compromise was reached via the "Susan Collins." But this would probably be dropped for reduced--not even eliminated--tariffs and other "deals." Money always talks.

Kicking the U.S. team out of the Olympics is pretty extreme, but that is also a possibility if the conflict drug on without a resolution.

Turnip likely looks at Europe's response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine and thinks (if this is possible,) 'if that's all they've got to hurt an enemy then they've likely got nothing to hurt an ally.'

Besides, when you're a superpower, they let you do it. You can do anything.... Grab 'em by the natural resources....

I don't think Trump thinking is part of the equation.
Either people will talk him out of it or they won't. He won't be looking chess moves ahead. He'll act, wonder what happened, and blame others.

It may not be rational or well-advised to act upon--but it's something.

And--very unfortunately--he's failed up so many times and so far in life that part of what he's thinking is that he knows what's best....

It may take a final and very huge miscalculation to disavow him of that notion at this point.

A miscalculation we are all likely to have to scramble to figure out how to survive and live with.

Malignant Narcissism complicated by Frontotemporal Dementia. He's literally incapable of figuring it out.
But all that failing up along the way hasn't helped.

What they have to do is stress all of his properties which will be closed down. Hit him in his ego.

what is written is the sum total of all that could possibly occur.

Not saying this scenario absolutely won't occur, but is more likely that what does occur will be some of what is noted.

How much .... likely on the lesser end.

End of the day, likely some loud objections, some action, but mostly everyone knowing they won't be able to change the outcome and being practical about that.

And, while it absolutely will be for the worse, MAGA will be absolutely joyous over the collapse of NATO and the media and a lot of the country will just shrug.

Our bases on the continent could attack those countries, and be joined by Putin. Instant war, with the feckless UN trying to broker a cease fire.

…and it all will end exactly as planned: the complete dismantling of the usa as any kind of democracy or world power.

No one cares enough to fight Trump or the US.

You have laid out a worst case scenario, BUT it depends on the rest of the world uniting against us. There are too many unknowns both here and abroad.

In order for us to survive, we must join together and resist these wackados. First of all we must stand up to these bullies. Encourage one another. One day at a time. Persist. Resist. Hope.

good!

minus the US, Hungary and maybe Turkey reconstitute a NATO-like compact on the day after if this happens. They need to have this policy in place. There is plenty of fire power among the remaining nations to deter Russia.

On the bright side, maybe the thought of their benefactors being harmed might wake the corrupt SCOTUS 6 the fuck up.