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PeaceWave

(3,616 posts)
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 03:27 PM Saturday

When we get back into power, we're coming for the wealthy. But, how do we define the "wealthy?"

This one question, I believe, is going to define more than any other whether Democrats merely temporarily regain the levers of power in Washington or are able to present the American people with a lasting deal they trust for decades - not unlike the New Deal that resulted in Democrats controlling Congress from the early 1930s all the way until the dawn of Ronald Reagan. In order to do this though, we need to have a defined target. Because, if we start infighting over this issue, we're never going to get to the real root of the problem.

Increased taxes - both income and wealth - on billionaires? That's a no brainer. The statistics paint a scathing picture of the degree to which wealth distribution in the US has gotten completely out of control. Currently, the top 1% of US households hold a record 31.7% of the nation's wealth (up from 22.8% in 1990). More disturbing, the top 1% own nearly as much wealth as the bottom 90% combined. In total, the top 1% hold a record $52 trillion to $55.8 trillion in wealth - enough to pay off the entire US national debt with another $13 to $16 trillion to spare.

So, the top 1% should clearly be a target of change in policy. What about the top 10% though? In order to fall into the top 10% of US households in terms of wealth, you need to possess at least $1.8 million to $2 million in wealth. For most Americans falling into this category, the vast majority of their wealth is held in home equity and/or retirement investment portfolios. Are these households really all that "wealthy" though, especially given the rapid rise in inflation, particularly home prices? Should these folks also be a target of policy change?

At present, as a party, we Democrats have yet to clearly address what it means to be "wealthy" in America. The Van Hollen/STEP Act proposed in 2021 by Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen and joined by Senators Cory Booker, Bernie Sanders, Sheldon Whitehouse and Elizabeth Warren listed as one its suggestions for tax reform the taxing of inherited wealth in excess of $1 million. A low bar for sure. But, also an indicator that we may be losing sight of the real culprit in our broken economy and broken wealth distribution.

The wealth in the US is there, amassed and stalled in the hands of the few, just waiting to be taken back by the people - much to the horror of the truly wealthy - but only if we as a party can first decide whether we want to hunt apex predators or waste our time hunting small game.

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When we get back into power, we're coming for the wealthy. But, how do we define the "wealthy?" (Original Post) PeaceWave Saturday OP
Start with average income vs median income.. I'm willing to negotiate from there ck4829 Saturday #1
Progressive or graduated taxes Cirsium Saturday #2
I think the problem is that the "wealth" of the ultra wealthy Bettie Saturday #23
I Need To See Data... ProfessorGAC 20 hrs ago #38
Tax the wealthy like you want to drown them in a bathtub. bucolic_frolic Saturday #3
Using Grover Norquist's words against him? I like it. Might I also suggest... PeaceWave Saturday #21
I don't think that's a difficult question Bluetus Saturday #4
I'm a big fan of a wealth tax... WarGamer Saturday #9
Maybe... The Revolution Saturday #15
10m wealth... that's a lot of house and assets. and 0.3% on 10m wealth is just 30k tax WarGamer Saturday #17
The people with $10M of net worth are not the problem in our society Bluetus Saturday #25
Wealth Tax isn't punishment lol... WarGamer Saturday #30
We should set a high bar. I agree with you. Bluetus Saturday #32
I have no problems with billionaires... they just need to pay up! WarGamer Yesterday #34
I don't have envy of those who work hard and are successful because of it Bluetus 21 hrs ago #37
We'll know that when we finish. -misanthroptimist Saturday #5
Start at the top income...work your way down... ret5hd Saturday #6
How is it defined when giving out TAX CUTS?! leftstreet Saturday #7
$400k was the last dividing line... WarGamer Saturday #8
In income, not net worth. NutmegYankee Saturday #10
For the wealth tax... I'll start taxing families and individuals at $10M WarGamer Saturday #11
And, what happens when that $10 million is wrapped up in a farm that feeds the whole community? PeaceWave Saturday #16
I'm only referring to personal wealth... the farm should be an LLC WarGamer Saturday #18
These are the kind of exceptions that created the wealth disparity in the first place. PeaceWave Saturday #19
Every billionaire will suddenly put all their money into an LLC tinrobot Saturday #24
I think something can be worked out for family farms which was the example. WarGamer Saturday #31
And what if Superman was a Nazi? dpibel Saturday #33
Top down, and I'll let you know when we get there. Iggo Saturday #12
How was it done under Eisenhower? thucythucy Saturday #13
I'm thinking you need to include any income asset or investment, haele Saturday #14
This message was self-deleted by its author. demmiblue Saturday #20
"...taxing of inherited wealth in excess of $1 million." IMO, stupid. flvegan Saturday #22
Agreed ... That's too low a number. Personal story JT45242 Saturday #28
First off, thank you for your public service. Second, your story is exactly why I wrote what I did. PeaceWave Saturday #29
Varies by kind of tax... JT45242 Saturday #26
How many... ZDU Saturday #27
I am a TSP Millionaire DenaliDemocrat Yesterday #35
Bill Clinton taxed the wealthy. Maybe see how he did that and Nixie Yesterday #36

Bettie

(19,784 posts)
23. I think the problem is that the "wealth" of the ultra wealthy
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 08:32 PM
Saturday

is all in investments/stock holdings and they live on loans, from one year to another, without ever having any official income.

So, they pay practically nothing and own....everything.

ProfessorGAC

(76,977 posts)
38. I Need To See Data...
Sun Apr 19, 2026, 11:42 AM
20 hrs ago

...on how prevalent that "borrowing against assets" thing really is.
A billionaire making 10.5% could still see a asset value increase of 8% while living off the other $25 million pretax.
Borrowing $25 million and paying 3.5% on that year over year is not an advantage over just living off $25 million in dividend money.
We see thus "borrow to live" thing regularly, but it seems it would only work if the entire portfolio is going up at a unusually high rate like the AI bros. And, there's just a handful of them.
I'm defending no uber rich people. I just doubt that many of the hyper wealthy actually rack up added debt for no good financial purpose.

bucolic_frolic

(55,432 posts)
3. Tax the wealthy like you want to drown them in a bathtub.
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 03:49 PM
Saturday

Problem solved.

Go big. Tax them and create a sovereign wealth fund, for the benefit of all, like they do in some European companies. The masses have funded the wealthy by buying their products. Shouldn't there be some sharing of the largess?

I sold books online in 1999. I didn't make my own Amazon.

BTW, were tariffs designed to cuff Amazon's import competition? AliExpress, eBay, not importing much to the US these days I think.

PeaceWave

(3,616 posts)
21. Using Grover Norquist's words against him? I like it. Might I also suggest...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 08:12 PM
Saturday

treating the act of relinquishing US citizenship in an attempt to avoid US taxation the same way that we treat death, triggering payment of an estate tax?

Bluetus

(2,947 posts)
4. I don't think that's a difficult question
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 03:50 PM
Saturday

The exact limits can always be negotiated, but if there is a wealth tax, I think $50million per household would be a sensible entry point at a modest level and accelerating sharply above the billion dollar mark. A 2% net worth tax above a billion dollars makes good sense. IOW, a person with $1bn in net worth would pay $20M every year and would never miss any of it. If they did decline below $1Bn in net worth, then their share would go down, so none of them would ever feel any pain.

As far as income tax, put it back where it was in 1960 when our middle class was healthy. A high top marginal rate ENCOURAGES investment because investments in your business and work force are deductible. The top bracket in 1960 was 91%. Nobody ever paid that because they did reinvest in their businesses and work force. But a few people did pay 50-60% and that's fine. Keep in mind they only pay that high rate on the topmost part of their income. Even a person reaching the 91% bracket is probably paying only a 50% effective rate.

And let's stop playing pillow fights about Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Remove all the caps on that. A billionaire should pay the full rate just like everybody else. And that will EASILY fund Medicare for all and keep Social Security solvent through the end of this century.

WarGamer

(18,738 posts)
9. I'm a big fan of a wealth tax...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:13 PM
Saturday

Every year you value all your assets and pay X% of that number.

Easy.

the problem is... wealthy folks own LOTS of politicians.

The Revolution

(903 posts)
15. Maybe...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:25 PM
Saturday

But is your home an asset? You could have a fairly standard income, buy a house, then have the value of that house increase drastically. Should you pay a wealth tax on that?

We could have an exception for primary homes, but having exceptions is what starts making things more complicated, possibly creating loopholes that can be exploited.

Bluetus

(2,947 posts)
25. The people with $10M of net worth are not the problem in our society
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 10:24 PM
Saturday

Last edited Sat Apr 18, 2026, 11:03 PM - Edit history (1)

Lots of doctors, other professionals, and successful business people have that and more. I don't envy them, and I congratulate them for their achievement.. These are not the ones corrupting our political system. They are not the ones rigging our elections and our markets. If a wealth tax kicked in at $10M, it should be a very low rate and only on the wealth above $10M

There are about 1000 Americans with net worth of $1B or more and that is a total wealth about $7 trillion.

We ABSOLUTELY should be taxing that wealth at least 2% per year. That would provide $140 billion, which could fix a lot of problems in our system. And these assholes would never miss any of that,

WarGamer

(18,738 posts)
30. Wealth Tax isn't punishment lol...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 10:54 PM
Saturday

At a certain level of wealth they must pay it forward for the benefits the system gave THEM to get where they are.

140B is nothing. My plan produces 840B a year.

Bluetus

(2,947 posts)
32. We should set a high bar. I agree with you.
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 11:09 PM
Saturday

Candidates who boldly propose ideas like this will win a strong following. Americans instinctively understand we are being screwed by the extreme concentration of wealth in our society. No human needs that kind of wealth. For them, money is a measure of the love they never received in their lives. Let's give them gold stars and a pat on the head, but they don't need to hoard billions of dollars while so many suffer for no good reason.

Bluetus

(2,947 posts)
37. I don't have envy of those who work hard and are successful because of it
Sun Apr 19, 2026, 10:53 AM
21 hrs ago

But that is not what is happening in late stage capitalism. Nearly 100% of the obscenely rich either inherited that or else they were able to take advantage of their wealth to dial up special deals for themselves that took them from comfortably wealthy to unfathomably rich. Just look at the money that goes into defense contractor hands. Look at all the no-bid contracts Trump is illegally giving out. Look at hos these insiders are stealing hundreds of billions of dollars from regular people by their daily insider trading games.

If we can't police the white collar crime, we should at least tax the fruits of those crimes.

And regarding the inheritance factor, our founding fathers were very much against generational wealth because in the old country, that became pretty much the same thing as royalty. I have no problem with a person wanting to give their children a good start in life. But there is no earthly reason that a person should be able to pass along billions of dollars to their offspring. Our public policy should make it much more attractive to dispose of massive wealth through philanthropy than to give it to generations of the family so that they can lord over the rest of us forever.

I guess my point in all of this is that America is very much in an "Eat the Rich" state of mind, and our politicians should stop being so timid about saying this out loud.

ret5hd

(22,525 posts)
6. Start at the top income...work your way down...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 04:08 PM
Saturday

til the needs of the many are satisfied.

leftstreet

(41,063 posts)
7. How is it defined when giving out TAX CUTS?!
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 04:34 PM
Saturday

Ask Reagan, Bush, Bush, Trump

They all seem to have a "formula" for knowing how to give tax cuts to the rich

Maybe when the Ds have power they can RESCIND some of those?

Problem solved

NutmegYankee

(16,480 posts)
10. In income, not net worth.
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:16 PM
Saturday

1 in 6 Americans are millionaires in net worth, mostly locked up in real estate and retirement accounts. Few consider themselves wealthy.

WarGamer

(18,738 posts)
11. For the wealth tax... I'll start taxing families and individuals at $10M
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:19 PM
Saturday

Maybe a small 0.3% tax... write down all assets on single form and it's $10M... x 0.3% = $30,000 annually

Maybe 0.5% at 25m, .75% at 50m, 1% at 100m... 2% at 250m and 3% over 1B

according to Gemini... my plan would generate $840B a year. More than the DOD budget

PeaceWave

(3,616 posts)
16. And, what happens when that $10 million is wrapped up in a farm that feeds the whole community?
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:26 PM
Saturday

Some years the farm makes money. Some years it doesn't. Small farms often have a tenuous existence. Imposing a wealth tax may well push them over the edge of selling to some developer of McMansions. When you factor in the externalities, the community as a whole ends up worse off than before the wealth tax was imposed.

tinrobot

(12,092 posts)
24. Every billionaire will suddenly put all their money into an LLC
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 09:01 PM
Saturday

That's a pretty big loophole.

dpibel

(3,989 posts)
33. And what if Superman was a Nazi?
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 11:12 PM
Saturday

You think a farm with a value of $10 million is a small farm?

You're hilarious.

Also, please point me to anywhere in the US where a single farm feeds a community. You're about 150 years behind times on that one.

thucythucy

(9,113 posts)
13. How was it done under Eisenhower?
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:24 PM
Saturday

We had a much higher tax rate for the uber wealthy then--and a much stronger middle class.

haele

(15,465 posts)
14. I'm thinking you need to include any income asset or investment,
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 05:25 PM
Saturday

That does not also provide a tangible income or other asset, financial or tangible to someone else or to a business that creates a product -
Tax buy-back shares, but not any excess revenue that's pumped back into the business or given to all employees as some form of shares or benefit payments (bonus, additional payments into a Roth IRA that's added to the company 401Ks, ect...).
Maybe there should be a "hoard" tax. If you're able to use it for a loan collateral, it can be taxed.

flvegan

(66,374 posts)
22. "...taxing of inherited wealth in excess of $1 million." IMO, stupid.
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 08:24 PM
Saturday

That's not "wealth" in comparison. Killing generational "wealth" is a terrible idea at that low level.

Oh, and let me know when these folks bar the rights of congress to trade/speculate securities.

JT45242

(4,065 posts)
28. Agreed ... That's too low a number. Personal story
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 10:39 PM
Saturday

I was a school teacher for 20 years. I rolled that pension onto a 503b when I joined a non profit.

I have lived frugally and will hopefully end with between 1-1.5 million when wife and I die if we don't require long term nursing care.

Giving about 20 percent to a variety of charities. The rest is split between our two kids. If it was taxed heavily would not be fair relative to how we lived.

But if I had climbed the corporate ladder and had $5 million, that should be taxed at some decent rate. Especially since most of it was put in as tax deferred money into retirement accounts or the equity build up in the house.

PeaceWave

(3,616 posts)
29. First off, thank you for your public service. Second, your story is exactly why I wrote what I did.
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 10:43 PM
Saturday

There are millions of folks in your exact position. And, including them (and you) as targets of future tax reform would - i believe - be wrong.

JT45242

(4,065 posts)
26. Varies by kind of tax...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 10:32 PM
Saturday

First, social security it should be everyone, all income. The donut plan of $400 k is acceptable.

For income taxes... Increase tax over $400k to much higher percentage and escalate as well.

For the wealth tax, even if you take the top 10 percent or 5 percent makes sense to me.
Hit anyone over $500 million hard. If you want to wait until it's billionaires for messaging for harsh wealth tax, that is ok as well.

ZDU

(1,305 posts)
27. How many...
Sat Apr 18, 2026, 10:33 PM
Saturday

... homes do they need?
... rental properties, Airbnb, etc. do they own?
... how much do they receive from royalties?
... earned income?
.... millions per second do they make?

Shall I continue?

DenaliDemocrat

(1,793 posts)
35. I am a TSP Millionaire
Sun Apr 19, 2026, 05:30 AM
Yesterday

I invested the max into my 401K for 30 years. That money needs to last me 25-30 years. It’s my retirement fund. I’m not “wealthy”. I saved as I was told to do since our pensions were severely reduced.

Nixie

(18,021 posts)
36. Bill Clinton taxed the wealthy. Maybe see how he did that and
Sun Apr 19, 2026, 08:20 AM
Yesterday

was the only president in recent history to leave office with a balanced budget.

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