General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumslast line of declaration of independence. just above the john hancock.
"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."
they "mass deported" the loyalists = 1/3 of the colonial population
they ethnically cleansed the indigenous population
they enslaved millions
maybe these freemasons were so confident in their class solidarity and secret society omerta , backed always by the dueling code, that they committed the crime of the millennium.
and now, to celebrate the 250th anniversary of that crime, this epstein gang is doing it again, but bigger and better than anybody has ever seen!"
"we all hang together or we all hang separately" franklin
SSJVegeta
(3,458 posts)rampartd
(5,606 posts)they were beset by barn burning night riders and lynched if they did not move.
trump might call it "self deportation."
SSJVegeta
(3,458 posts)Hence why you put deported in quotes
rampartd
(5,606 posts)there were 4 million slaves by 1865, but in 1790 census only abt 700,000.
given trump's famous numerical accuracy i'd hate to be off by that much.
Troubling to consider that massive increase
peppertree
(23,594 posts)South Plantation types are known for their fuzzy math (especially when it comes to filing their taxes - which they see as Yankee confiscation).
Volaris
(11,869 posts)After Nov, the hammer is coming down.
lonely bird
(3,132 posts)Masonic dueling code and secret society omertà
OhioBack2Blue
(237 posts)#resist
Zackzzzz
(425 posts)Eleuthera, Bahamas.
ThreeNoSeep
(334 posts)Are you upset at the hypocrisy of the people who wrote the words, because only pure souls should utter anything profound, or try to set lofty goals? Are you saying these founders should not have declared independence, or just that we shouldn't celebrate that moment in history because it came before later bad things? And who cares about Freemasons?
Why would you equate the writer's of the Declaration of Independence to the Epstein clique?
Martin Eden
(16,101 posts)With eyes wide open we can see flaws in those men of the late 18th century through the lens of our 21st century culture. We are not fully qualified to judge them. We should acknowledge the sacrifices many of them made in winning independence from a tyrant, embrace the highest ideals they expressed, and work to improve upon the system of self government they created and bequeathed to future generations.
TommyT139
(2,528 posts)So in favor of theocracy? Monarchy? Something else?
And why the exception for Ben Franklin (implied by your use of his quote at the end, at least).
https://www.freemason.com/benjamin-franklin-freemason-founding-father/
rampartd
(5,606 posts)supported by about the same percent as current "maga"
among the few things i know about the masons is their secrecy which is similar to, among many other things, the mafia and epstein's clique.
TommyT139
(2,528 posts)Like other institutions, the Freemasons are made up of human beings, prone to excellence as well as corruption.
But many of the ideas you likely have about the ideals of democracy, equality, and integrity -- which as ideas at least, undergird what America at best aspires to -- can be traced back to the [European] Enlightenment, carried across the Atlantic by freemasons.
I don't get the "tragic mistake" part, but in a land of No Kings supporters, I shouldn't be surprised that some do wish for a "king." And yet I am surprised.
Martin Eden
(16,101 posts)Personally, I prefer democracy with Constitutional rule of law.
But, to each his own.
rampartd
(5,606 posts)which could have been achieved by sending reps to parliament.
i have no desire to serve a king, but a unitary executive might just be the same thing. i'll tell you as soon as jr is inaugurated as trump ii in 2029.
do either exist here in more than the most aspirational sentiment?
Martin Eden
(16,101 posts)By "either" are you referring to democracy and rule of all "in more than the most aspirational sentiment?"
My answer is an unequivocal YES.
These aspirations expressed by men of the 18th century Enlightment were written in the Declaration of Independence then codified in our Constitution.
Were those original documents perfect at their inception, or put into practice to match the highest aspirations? HELL NO.
Almost nothing in this realm is all or nothing. It is a matter of degrees, improved upon at times with some major setbacks. The sins against Blacks, Native Americans, and other groups have been horrendus. No document, law, or legislation can change human nature. Those who possess wealth and power have always sought more, actively manipulating the public to keep them ignorant and turn people against each other.
I do not make excuses for any of it, but to state the reality of the complex imperfect country and world we live in. I was born a month before the Russians launched Sputnick, so I have some experience. My parents and the aunt who helped raise me were of the WW2 generation and hardcore lefties back in the day, active in the labor and civil rights movements.
Progress has been made, but it has always been a struggle. Our political/electoral system is highly dysfunctional, infused with Big Money. Public perception is influenced by corporate media owned by oligarchs, and by religion twisted to foster bigotry and serve mammon.
Our current president and congressional majority is the gravest threat to our democracy and Constitutional rule of law since the Civil War -- but we are not ruled by a king. Nor are we North Korea, Iran, Russia, China, etc. Millions of Americans are still putting their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor on the line to make those highest aspirations as much of a reality as can be in this complex difficult world.
Abject cynicism and condemnation of our entire history ignores all the hard work, sacrifice, and real progress which has been made. The arc of the moral universe is long, and people are still bending it towards justice.
ITAL
(1,449 posts)Yes, many left because they felt hounded, but according to what I have read, most actually stayed here. They kept their noses down and stayed quiet hoping their support of the crown would be forgotten, or they moved into the western lands where people would likely not know who they were and reinvented themselves.