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pnwmom

(109,845 posts)
Thu May 8, 2025, 09:26 PM 15 hrs ago

White smoke, Black pope? Genealogist says Leo XIV has Louisiana African roots

Last edited Thu May 8, 2025, 10:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: National Catholic Reporter

Louisiana Creole expert Jari Honora has traced Prevost's ancestry to the Black community of New Orleans. His maternal ancestors lived in the Crescent City before migrating to Chicago in the early 20th century, Honora said.

Leo XIV is not known to have publicly commented having African ancestry, which is part of a mixed heritage that also includes French, Italian and Spanish roots. According to the U.S. Census, Prevost's mother, the late Mildred Martinez, was the mixed-race daughter of Black property owners, the Haitian-born Joseph Martinez and New Orleans native Louise Baquié, a Creole.

As such, Leo XIV could be considered the first Black pope in the history of the Catholic Church, though it is unclear how he identifies racially.

"It's more complicated than that," Honora told Black Catholic Messenger. "I think that a person can be of Black ancestry or have Black roots, but to identify as Black, I think, is all about the lived experience."

Read more: https://www.ncronline.org/news/white-smoke-black-pope-genealogist-says-leo-xiv-has-louisiana-african-roots



From the NY Times;


Lolita Villavasso Cherrie, a co-founder with Mr. Honora of The Creole Genealogical and Historical Association, said that the research appeared to signal a tremendous moment for the history of Louisiana Creoles, if a branch of the pope’s family tree indeed stretched back to New Orleans.

“It would be so fabulous to have someone who has some connection to our people, who give us the recognition we deserve,” said Ms. Villavasso Cherrie, 79, a retired teacher. “I hate to say it, but we feel, many of us, that our history was hidden from us.”

That is in part, she said, because many Creoles have been able to “pass” as white over the years. It was only with the advent of the internet, she said, that many people began to research their family history and became aware of their Creole roots.

Ms. Villavasso Cherrie noted that in the 20th century, a significant number of Louisiana Creoles migrated to the Chicago area and California.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/08/us/pope-leo-creole-new-orleans.html
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
White smoke, Black pope? Genealogist says Leo XIV has Louisiana African roots (Original Post) pnwmom 15 hrs ago OP
I wonder JustAnotherGen 14 hrs ago #1
yep. tread lightly here. stopdiggin 14 hrs ago #2
The article makes that clear. But the Church publicly announced this geneology right after the Conclave, pnwmom 14 hrs ago #4
He does not appear to have discussed his ancestry publicly - Ms. Toad 13 hrs ago #8
This message was self-deleted by its author pnwmom 12 hrs ago #11
There are documents backing up the genealogist's findings, which he posted online. pnwmom 12 hrs ago #12
and you prove my point ... stopdiggin 10 hrs ago #15
I said: "I don't think any of them would think he was "claiming an experience he did not live." pnwmom 9 hrs ago #16
and yet you seem to be very insistent ? stopdiggin 1 hr ago #20
I wasn't disputing his ancestry. Ms. Toad 1 hr ago #21
... Solly Mack 14 hrs ago #3
That is so cool. Clouds Passing 14 hrs ago #5
Better every minute!!! elleng 14 hrs ago #6
LOL, I had just added that to the OP. And I agree -- better yet! pnwmom 14 hrs ago #7
Frankly, since Obama, such analysis of ancestry seem ultimately counter productive beyond saying Bernardo de La Paz 13 hrs ago #9
More to love about mzmolly 13 hrs ago #10
TY! I Discovered that myself when I Searched for Cha 12 hrs ago #13
The significance of this is that it means the hideous "One Drop" doctrine is dead in European Catholicism. /nt artemisia1 11 hrs ago #14
Clickbait headline BaronChocula 7 hrs ago #17
2 out of 4 grandparents were Black, by the Census records. That would be more than any Pope in history, pnwmom 7 hrs ago #18
Cool Kid Berwyn 5 hrs ago #19

JustAnotherGen

(34,850 posts)
1. I wonder
Thu May 8, 2025, 09:32 PM
14 hrs ago

If they moved to pass?

I have a diverse background but no one would look at me and say "White lady".

stopdiggin

(13,652 posts)
2. yep. tread lightly here.
Thu May 8, 2025, 09:41 PM
14 hrs ago

having 'some ancestry' is clearly not the same thing as 'identifying' or 'claiming'.
And I have no doubt that people will ignore that and make this into their own version or narrative. But I am also confident that this admirable and accomplished person is perfectly capable of claiming (and articulating) his own 'identity'.
( probably something along the lines of 'human' )

pnwmom

(109,845 posts)
4. The article makes that clear. But the Church publicly announced this geneology right after the Conclave,
Thu May 8, 2025, 10:06 PM
14 hrs ago

so that tells me he IS claiming this. Good for him.

Ms. Toad

(36,824 posts)
8. He does not appear to have discussed his ancestry publicly -
Thu May 8, 2025, 10:36 PM
13 hrs ago

notwithstanding anything others have said about him.

It’s unclear whether the new pope, who took the name Leo XIV, has ever addressed his ancestry in public, interviews or his writings.


https://archive.li/fazbR#selection-743.0-743.132

Martinez’s descent has been widely reported as Spanish, and Pope Leo XIV does not appear to have made major public statements regarding Creole heritage


https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2025/05/08/pope-leo-xivs-ancestry-celebrated-congressman-genealogist-tout-possible-creole-black-roots/

All of the reports I have seen are traced to the genealogist, not the church (but, again, the church making a statement is not the same as the Pope claiming it). And genealogy is different from lived experience. My guess is that he would be very cautious about claiming an experience he did not live, based on his geneology.

Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #8)

pnwmom

(109,845 posts)
12. There are documents backing up the genealogist's findings, which he posted online.
Thu May 8, 2025, 11:48 PM
12 hrs ago

And the Black Catholics I know are thrilled about this discovery. I don't think any of them would think he was "claiming an experience he did not live." They know why many people decided to "pass," once they moved out of a Black neighborhood.

The maternal side of Pope Leo XIV’s family can be traced back to at least the 1840s among “free people of color” in New Orleans, according to Jari C. Honora, a genealogist with the Historic New Orleans Collection, a research center documenting the city’s history.

Rep. Troy Carter, D-La., who represents New Orleans, also released a statement Thursday highlighting Pope Leo XIV’s “ancestral ties to our Creole and Haitian families,” saying he was proud “As a Black man” and “a proud son of New Orleans.”

Pope Leo XIV’s maternal grandparents, along with his mother’s older siblings, were “identified in records as Black or mulatto,” Honora told Forbes, but the family “passed … into a white racial identity” when they relocated to Chicago, where the pope’s mother—Mildred Martinez—was born in 1912.

. . . . Honora said in a Facebook post Thursday “Our Holy Father, Pope Leo XIV, has Creole of color roots from New Orleans on his mother's side!” He told The Times-Picayune a marriage license shows Joseph Martinez and Louise Baquié, the pope’s grandparents, married in 1887 at Our Lady of Sacred Heart church in New Orleans. Those records show Joseph Martinez listed Haiti as his birthplace, Honora told the newspaper. He added the family was listed as living at 1933 North Prieur St. in the city’s Seventh Ward, an area that was demolished during the construction of the Claiborne Avenue overpass, which critics say significantly disrupted vibrant Black neighborhoods in the city.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2025/05/08/pope-leo-xivs-ancestry-celebrated-congressman-genealogist-tout-possible-creole-black-roots/


Honora tracked down a marriage license that showed the Pope's maternal grandparents, Joseph Martinez and Louise Baquié, were wed at Our Lady of Sacred Heart on Annette Street in 1887. Joseph Martinez claimed Haiti as his birthplace, Honora said, "which could very much be true, given the back-and-forth that has always existed between New Orleans and Haiti. Or he could have deeper New Orleans roots. (I'm) still working on that."

During the 1900 U.S. census, the couple was listed as residing at 1933 North Prieur Street, a site later demolished due to the construction of the Claiborne Avenue overpass. They were also described as Black, and Joseph Martinez was said to have an occupation as a cigar maker.
About 10 years later, the family moved to Chicago, where the pope's mother was born.

"Martinez's older brothers and sisters were all born in New Orleans, in the 7th Ward," Honora said. "They moved to Chicago between 1910 and 1912, and like so many Louisiana families, they shifted their racial identity. They moved to a big metropolis and go about what people assume you are."

https://www.nola.com/news/first-american-pope-roots-new-orleans/article_3c7bfdf1-8f69-452e-af01-90aa012366df.html#tncms-source=featured-top

pnwmom

(109,845 posts)
16. I said: "I don't think any of them would think he was "claiming an experience he did not live."
Fri May 9, 2025, 03:10 AM
9 hrs ago

How does that prove your point?

He does have the experience of having lived as a man with Black ancestry, whether or not he's discussed it in public.

Just as my father had the experience of having lived as a gay man for decades, before he ever discussed it in public.

You don't have to be "out" to have a lived experience.

stopdiggin

(13,652 posts)
20. and yet you seem to be very insistent ?
Fri May 9, 2025, 11:05 AM
1 hr ago

(and authoritative?) in speaking for his experience ....

Ms. Toad

(36,824 posts)
21. I wasn't disputing his ancestry.
Fri May 9, 2025, 11:18 AM
1 hr ago

But there is a difference between a genealogist tracing his family roots and finding black/Creole ancestors, and him claiming to be black.

I have a Jewish ancestor, which was discovered through genealogical research. She happens to be in my paternal line, but even if she was in my maternal line I would not claim to be Jewish. To do so would feel like appropriating an identity which carries with it a cultural experience I did not have.

Your post focused on his claims - and no one, that I has found, had claimed that he has publicly claimed to be black/Creole.

Ancestry is a matter of fact - and to use your example, it is far different to live as a gay man, without being out, than to have, for example, a gay grandfather.

And blacks being thrilled that he has grandparents who are black is far different from him claiming to be black.



elleng

(139,376 posts)
6. Better every minute!!!
Thu May 8, 2025, 10:10 PM
14 hrs ago

New Pope Has Creole Roots in New Orleans, Genealogist Says
Robert Prevost’s maternal grandparents were married near the French Quarter and later moved to Chicago, where his mother was born, records show.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/08/us/pope-leo-creole-new-orleans.html

Bernardo de La Paz

(55,336 posts)
9. Frankly, since Obama, such analysis of ancestry seem ultimately counter productive beyond saying
Thu May 8, 2025, 10:43 PM
13 hrs ago

"mixed", which is what most Americans are. Even neo-nazi white supremacists are routinely found to have some mixtures.

I think we get beyond race analysis by mostly ignoring it.

Dinosaurs are obsessed by heritage. Real humans are more focused on evolving forward by letting people fall in love with people. DEI and such stuff have some use as remediation: helping people with a leg up, not propping up. The sooner it is not needed the better.

Be the change you want.

Cha

(310,397 posts)
13. TY! I Discovered that myself when I Searched for
Fri May 9, 2025, 12:20 AM
12 hrs ago

Pope Leo XIV's Heritage and I posted it on a Thread.. Fascinating.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20303449

Mahalo for Posting this, pnwmom! A lot more information and history..

I've never been interested in a Pope before but here we are.

artemisia1

(996 posts)
14. The significance of this is that it means the hideous "One Drop" doctrine is dead in European Catholicism. /nt
Fri May 9, 2025, 01:00 AM
11 hrs ago

BaronChocula

(2,685 posts)
17. Clickbait headline
Fri May 9, 2025, 04:50 AM
7 hrs ago

Black pope? Yeah. No.

But I find him impressive with what I know thus far.

pnwmom

(109,845 posts)
18. 2 out of 4 grandparents were Black, by the Census records. That would be more than any Pope in history,
Fri May 9, 2025, 04:59 AM
7 hrs ago

and enough for many people to consider themselves Black.

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