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muriel_volestrangler

(104,429 posts)
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 02:41 PM Jul 29

UK to recognise state of Palestine in September unless Israel holds to a ceasefire

Source: The Guardian

The UK will formally recognise the state of Palestine this September as a result of the “increasingly intolerable” situation on the ground in Gaza, unless Israel abides by a ceasefire and commits to a two-state solution in the Middle East.

Keir Starmer’s cabinet has agreed a roadmap for peace in the region after coming under intense domestic pressure over the mounting humanitarian crisis in the territory, and calls to follow France in acknowledging statehood.
...
In a significant shift in the UK’s approach, Starmer said that recognition would take place ahead of the UN general assembly in New York this September, unless Israel agreed to a series of conditions set out in the UK-led eight-point peace plan, and backed by allies.

These were for Israel to take “substantive steps” to end the situation in Gaza, reach a ceasefire, commit to no annexation in the West Bank, as well as a long-term peace process. Starmer spoke to the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, before the announcement.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/29/uk-to-recognise-state-of-palestine-in-september-unless-israel-holds-to-a-ceasefire

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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UK to recognise state of Palestine in September unless Israel holds to a ceasefire (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Jul 29 OP
Off to read in Depth JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #1
Hamas will NEVER accept a two-state solution. They never have, and they never will. It is in their charter. I wonder lostincalifornia Jul 29 #3
Now I Know JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #6
It is complicated, but most sources indicated an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood was involved. lostincalifornia Jul 29 #15
Nor will Bibi iemanja Jul 29 #22
Hamas does not speak for anywhere near all Palestinians. Big Blue Marble Jul 29 #28
The Palestinian Authority does recognise Israel as a state muriel_volestrangler Jul 29 #7
So Palestine JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #8
Right now... SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #9
It's all a problem from hell JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #11
Wish I could rec this statement a million times n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #12
It was elected as the government in Gaza 19 years ago iemanja Jul 29 #23
I never said that Hamas was elected in the West Bank n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #24
You said is was the elected government of Palestine iemanja Jul 29 #25
Fair enough... SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #26
As the US voted for Trump iemanja Jul 29 #27
Do any of us who voted for Kamala deserve what we got? Nope SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #30
Did these people vote? Is this what they deserved? iemanja Jul 29 #32
A majority of Americans voted for Trump iemanja Jul 29 #34
Duplicate iemanja Jul 29 #33
The Palestinian Authority is the Palestinian govt... Violet_Crumble Jul 30 #36
No, it wouldn't "have to" muriel_volestrangler Jul 29 #16
The PA has proposed taking over Gaza after the war. Israel rejected it. AloeVera Jul 29 #31
OK... SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #17
It's not "irrelevant"; the West Bank has the majority of Palestinians (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jul 29 #18
So then you want three states? SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #19
No. muriel_volestrangler Jul 29 #20
Does anyone remember when Israel under Labor was comitted to a two state solution, and Hamas and others lostincalifornia Jul 29 #2
News flash: Hamas does not control Gaza; Israel does. Big Blue Marble Jul 29 #29
Hamas controlled it before they started this disaster, and continuues to hold the hostages, and refuses to lostincalifornia Jul 29 #35
bravo UK, and let us ponder bibi's place in history prodigitalson Jul 29 #4
Once again they will all moniss Jul 29 #5
And... SickOfTheOnePct Jul 29 #10
Fair point JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #13
I did say the outside world should impose a solution no matter who doesn't like moniss Jul 29 #14
That slow walk concerns me. That and I don't trust the UK at all -eom vanessa_ca Jul 29 #21

JustAnotherGen

(36,724 posts)
1. Off to read in Depth
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 02:44 PM
Jul 29

the press made a big deal out of President Macron's statement last week - but they didn't report on the FULL statement.

IE -he also expected Palestine to recognize Israel as a State.

I think this all falls apart in the end, but it will be interesting to see if the Arab League finally admits that Israel is a country.

lostincalifornia

(4,227 posts)
3. Hamas will NEVER accept a two-state solution. They never have, and they never will. It is in their charter. I wonder
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:00 PM
Jul 29

Last edited Tue Jul 29, 2025, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)

how many people realize that Hamas is a branch off from the Muslim Brotherhood, the group responsible for killing Sadat who tried to make peace with Israel.

JustAnotherGen

(36,724 posts)
6. Now I Know
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:32 PM
Jul 29

I didn't know the Muslim Brotherhood was responsible for Anwar Sadat's death. I do remember Arab Muslims referring to him as 'Nassers little black poodle'.

lostincalifornia

(4,227 posts)
15. It is complicated, but most sources indicated an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood was involved.
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 04:53 PM
Jul 29

" An investigation uncovered evidence that the killers had plotted the attack with Al Gamaa al-Islamiyya, a Muslim Brotherhood offshoot that had failed ambitions of launching an Islamic revolution in the mid-1980s.

Aboud El Zomor, the leader of Al Gamaa al-Islamiyya, was convicted of plotting the assassination and spent almost 30 years behind bars before his release in April, among hundreds of political prisoners detained during President Hosni Mubarak’s regime.

Three decades later, in his first interview with a U.S. television news organization since his release, El Zomor was unapologetic about being a part of the killing of Sadat.

“Our role was related to assisting but not decision-making,” El Zomor recalled in his interview with CNN. “All that we did, our role, is that we had ammunition that we sent” to the assassins."

https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/06/world/meast/egypt-sadat-assassination

Also, Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood.

HAMAS, an acronym for Harakat al-Muqāwama al-Islāmiyya, or the “Islamic Resistance Movement,” was founded in 1987 as an offshoot of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood, which was formed at the beginning of the first intifada. In case some are wondering why there is criticism on the use of "globalize the intifada"


iemanja

(56,564 posts)
22. Nor will Bibi
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:00 PM
Jul 29

Israel has made clear it's goal is to rid Palestine of its people. Hence the mass starvation and building of a death camp in Rafah.

Big Blue Marble

(5,636 posts)
28. Hamas does not speak for anywhere near all Palestinians.
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:19 PM
Jul 29

Palestinians need the right to freely vote for their own government which they have
not had in decades. They need to choose the leaders who speak for them as people.

Hamas does not equal Palestinians.

muriel_volestrangler

(104,429 posts)
7. The Palestinian Authority does recognise Israel as a state
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:36 PM
Jul 29

The PLO did so in 1993, and it continues.

The Palestinians do not currently have their own sovereign state. Proponents of the two state solution argue that this should change and that the West Bank and Gaza Strip should form a single Palestinian sovereign state that exists alongside the sovereign state of Israel. That would leave two states: Israel and Palestine.

The idea has been around for decades and steps were made towards it in the early 1990s, with the signing of the Oslo Accord. As part of that agreement, Israel recognised the Palestinian Liberation Organsiation (PLO), led by Mahmoud Abbas, as representing the Palestinian people – with the PLO agreeing in return to end violence and recognise Israel as a legitimate state.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-is-a-two-state-solution-and-do-israelis-and-palestinians-want-one

“We can no longer accept massacres and famine,” Italy’s Foreign Minister Antonio Tajani told state news agency ANSA on Friday. “Italy is favourable to the solution of two people and two states but the recognition of a new state of Palestine should be done at the same time as the recognition of a state of Israel by the Palestinians.” While the Palestinian Authority does recognise Israel, Hamas does not.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/25/macrons-palestine-recognition-does-it-matter

JustAnotherGen

(36,724 posts)
8. So Palestine
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:46 PM
Jul 29

Would have to eliminate Hamas - and take control of Gaza. Because Hamas does NOT believe that Israel is a country.

I wonder if the Palestinian Government has the will?

I don't think they do - or they would have done so already.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,371 posts)
9. Right now...
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:48 PM
Jul 29

...Hamas is the elected Palestinian government...and I agree with everything you said.

iemanja

(56,564 posts)
23. It was elected as the government in Gaza 19 years ago
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:05 PM
Jul 29

not since. It was elected with cash that Bibi facilitated from Qatar in order to undermine the Palestinian Authority and with it a two-state solution. Netanyahu bears some responsibility for the terrorists he designed.

Hamas has never been elected in the West Bank.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,371 posts)
26. Fair enough...
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:14 PM
Jul 29

...I should have said the Palestinians in Gaza, which I did say in a different post.

Bottom line, they voted for terrorists to lead them, and that's what they got.

iemanja

(56,564 posts)
27. As the US voted for Trump
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:18 PM
Jul 29

Do you serve what you got? Only the current generation in Gaza hasn't had a chance to vote at all.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,371 posts)
30. Do any of us who voted for Kamala deserve what we got? Nope
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:31 PM
Jul 29

But in three years we'll have another chance. Gaza voted in a terrorist group as an FU to Israel, not even thinking about the consequences.

iemanja

(56,564 posts)
34. A majority of Americans voted for Trump
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 08:24 PM
Jul 29

In 2006, a plurality--not a majority--of Gazans voted for Hamas, after Israel's direct interference in the election and clamp down on movements of people during the election. You absolve yourself of the actions of the Trump administration, while you blame starving babies for an election that they never took part it. Most living Palestinians never voted at all, and most of those Palestinians who were alive in 2006 didn't in fact vote for Hamas. Yet you use that claim to justify mass starvation and death camps.

This is what Snopes says about your claim. https://www.snopes.com/news/2023/11/01/majority-palestinians-gaza-elect-hamas/

Violet_Crumble

(36,336 posts)
36. The Palestinian Authority is the Palestinian govt...
Wed Jul 30, 2025, 01:45 AM
Jul 30

And as has been pointed out, it's acknowledged the right of Israel to exist, which is far more than Israel is doing with its campaign of destruction and outright opposition to a Palestinian state.

muriel_volestrangler

(104,429 posts)
16. No, it wouldn't "have to"
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 05:01 PM
Jul 29

States do not stop being states when one part does not recognise another as the government (eg the USA did not stop being the USA when the Confederate states rebelled). It's not a matter of "will" (I'm sure Fatah would love to be rid of Hamas); they don't have the firepower. I mean, Israel hasn't eradicated Hamas yet, and that's after 2 years of war and 60,000 dead. If Fatah got close to developing the firepower to attack Hamas, Israel would level the West Bank.

AloeVera

(3,632 posts)
31. The PA has proposed taking over Gaza after the war. Israel rejected it.
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:43 PM
Jul 29

Israel says its corrupt. But that's not the real reason, surely.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,371 posts)
19. So then you want three states?
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 05:19 PM
Jul 29

Israel, Palestine I (in the West Bank) and Palestine II (in Gaza)?

There can't be a "well, this part of Palestine recognizes Israel, but the part over there doesn't". It's all or nothing, and that will never happen while Hamas is in charge of Gaza.

lostincalifornia

(4,227 posts)
2. Does anyone remember when Israel under Labor was comitted to a two state solution, and Hamas and others
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 02:57 PM
Jul 29

who were controlling the Palestinians were against that?

As long as Hamas is in control of Gaza, the only thing they want is the destruction of Israel. Just read their charter.

Big Blue Marble

(5,636 posts)
29. News flash: Hamas does not control Gaza; Israel does.
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 07:21 PM
Jul 29

And they are systematically destroying Gaza.

lostincalifornia

(4,227 posts)
35. Hamas controlled it before they started this disaster, and continuues to hold the hostages, and refuses to
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 09:41 PM
Jul 29

agree to a ceasefire.

That in no way means I approve of what Israel is doing under Netanyahu, but a sad reality is that both Hamas and Netanyahu use each other to maintain their power.

Biden actually moved to pause a shipment of heavy weapons to the Israeli government because of concerns over its plans to invade Rafah, but the House republicans pushed a bill that would force those arms shipments through.

https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/16/congress/israel-bill-passes-00158457

So when the protesters, Abandon Harris groupies, and others decided there was no difference between VP Harris and republicans, what did they think would happen?






prodigitalson

(3,138 posts)
4. bravo UK, and let us ponder bibi's place in history
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:06 PM
Jul 29

Bibi will go down as the guy who so overplayed what was indeed a horrific terrorist attack into a Palestinian state.

Forever inexorably linked to the founding of modern Palestine.

that's gonna leave a mark, good job dickhead

moniss

(7,923 posts)
5. Once again they will all
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:30 PM
Jul 29

talk about "recognition" but put the idea of borders on a very long and very slow walk. Israel should have been forced to go back to the 1967 borders long ago but everybody gave in to the idea of "needed for security" and "we will administer the West Bank and Gaza fairly". So now here we are 77 years down the road from when the leaders of the world said they would address displacement, compensation, right of return and they have done none of it. The promises were hollow then and although it is somewhat of a step forward for major powers to recognize a "state" of Palestine any of the meaningful issues will be slow walked and picked apart and conferences scheduled and people refusing to come and on and on like it has been.

That is why the world must impose borders whether Israel, the Palestinians, the neighboring countries etc. like it or not. This situation in the Middle East has brought the world to the point of problems of nuclear weapons and we cannot risk it escalating and that escalation will not be stopped by bombing the nuclear sites of one country while leaving in place the problems in the region created over the last more than 100 years.

The whacks in Israel running things really won't abide by any recognition of a state of Palestine anyway. They'll be angry at the countries that do but that will be about it. They may pull some diplomats and yell about trade etc. but that will be it.

SickOfTheOnePct

(8,371 posts)
10. And...
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 03:49 PM
Jul 29

...The whacks in Gaza running things really won't abide by any recognition of the state of Israel anyway.

moniss

(7,923 posts)
14. I did say the outside world should impose a solution no matter who doesn't like
Tue Jul 29, 2025, 04:28 PM
Jul 29

it didn't I? No more decades of slow walking discussions etc. Everybody had their chance and now the world should step in as it should have long ago.

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