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Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 05:05 PM Aug 1

I've stumbled across a strange problem posting a specific block of text.

I've been trying to post a reply in GD. I've tried multiple times and only get a forbidden 403 response, and something about a danish/english translation.

Here is the text:



Here is the error message I get when I try spellcheck:


Here is the error message I get when I tried to post (both here and in GD)


I can reply to the post - with different words in the body
I can reply to my own reply - as long as I don't use the original text in the body
I pasted the message as plain text - same error
I retyped the entire message just in case I had some odd hidden character.
I deleted the embedded link
And I tried to paste it in the message here.

In case it matters, here is the link to the post: https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20529492

But - both here and in GD - all the same result (despite successfully having successfully posted at least two other posts, as well as different text in response to the post). Any ideas?

ETA: by eliminating sentence by sentence, and then character by character, I've narrowed it down to this phrase that is the issue:


13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I've stumbled across a strange problem posting a specific block of text. (Original Post) Ms. Toad Aug 1 OP
Try retyping the offending text by hand. usonian Aug 1 #1
I retyped it multiple times. Ms. Toad Aug 1 #3
Will try on the computer. usonian Aug 1 #5
Correct - Ms. Toad Aug 1 #10
OK - I replaced the double quote with 2 single quotes and it seems to work...wonder why? walkingman Aug 1 #2
"smart" quotes? usonian Aug 1 #4
Cool - never heard the term "smart" quotes - thank you. walkingman Aug 1 #6
They point in different directions, unlike "" usonian Aug 1 #9
I think I have to set the curly quote conversion in Word. Ms. Toad Aug 1 #13
It isn't even the entire quote. Ms. Toad Aug 1 #7
It's really bizarre. Ms. Toad Aug 1 #11
Test usonian Aug 1 #8
It's actually even narrower than what you have highlighted. Ms. Toad Aug 1 #12

usonian

(19,907 posts)
1. Try retyping the offending text by hand.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 05:58 PM
Aug 1

DU will reject some odd characters that look like "normal" ascii codes. Evil folks use them in phishing emails to make fake addresses look real.

One might have snuk into the text (this is from two diffrent "unicode" characters looking the same. )

Just my best guess. I have had some characters bounced back to me but forgot which ones. Typing new ones otta fix it if I guessed right.

ETA

If you are on a computer, copy the text into a PLAIN text editor. (Like a programming editor) Odd and invisible characters will show up. Examples: Sublime Text, BBEdit, not sure what's cross-platform. E.G. "show invisibles" and so on.

Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
3. I retyped it multiple times.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:16 PM
Aug 1

I typed it directly into the text box.
I copied it and repasted it in plain text.
I pasted it into Word, copied that and pasted in plain text
Then as a last resort, I typed it again a second time directly in the text box.

After that, I eliminated one sentence at a time from the end of the text and checked spellcheck until it stopped giving me the 403 error

Tested just the last sentence eliminated and got the 403 error again.

Then I deleted word by word from the front and back of the sentence until no error, then added back in a character at a time until it reappeared.

Whatever bugs it is in this phrase:

I'd love to know if you get the same error when you type in that phrase. (I just retyped it and got the same error.)

I'm usually the one doing IT problem solving. This one has me stymied.

usonian

(19,907 posts)
5. Will try on the computer.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:23 PM
Aug 1

Word is not plain text, it does styled.

On the phone now. The computer doesn't fit on the easy chair. See note on smart quotes. If they are the problem, Word may be set to substitute them for the simple version.

Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
10. Correct -
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:50 PM
Aug 1

But if you right click, you can select paste as plain text (which I did, both with the copy made from the DU direct type, and from the version I dumped in Word temporarily - I have a lot of experience with making text conform to the various requirements of Word, Excel, .csv files so I can move back and forth depending on what format is required.

The quotation mark wasn't a smart quote - you can see the quote is a straight quotes in the images.

Whatever was going on is now inconsistent. In response to another comment, it performing as I've described most of the time - but when I tested it seconds before posting, it suddenly allowed spellcheck and preview. But now it doesn't, again.

It is the 4-word phrase beginning with " and ending with "the"

Removing the initial quote without changing anything else allows it to be posted
Removing the word "the" without changing anything else allows it to be posted
Removing either the word "subject" or the word "to" without changing anything else allows it to be posted

And now I've found something even more bizarre . . .

If I put the phrase anywhere in this post before the paragraph beginning "It is the 4-word" I get a 403 error.
If I place it later in the text it will spellcheck and post without error.



walkingman

(9,710 posts)
2. OK - I replaced the double quote with 2 single quotes and it seems to work...wonder why?
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:09 PM
Aug 1

Ultimately, it is the Supreme Court's job to decide whether to adopt that interpretation or
not. They are the ultimate arbiters of what the constitution means. And even if it agrees
with Trump's interpretation, the constitution is exactly as it was before. It is just that the
words of that amendment have a new interpretation - which happens more frequently than
you might think.
Trump contends that the phrase, ''and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,'' should be
interpreted to mean people with a permanent legal right to be in this country.
It hasn't been challenged before - and the assumption is that the phrase applies only to
people like foreign dignitaries and their families who are not subject to the jurisdiction of
our criminal courts (e.g. https://hrvoices.org/article/united-nations-diplomat-accused-of-
raping-nyc-neighbor-released-without-charges-after-claiming-immunity/). So if a foreign
dignitary is stationed in the United States their diplomatic immunity protects them from the
jurisdiction of US criminal laws. Because they are not subject to the jurisdiction of our
laws, any child born to them in the US is not granted US citizenship.
I don't see even this Supreme Court buying the argument that immigrants without a legal
status are equivalent to diplomats. But that is Trump's contention.

usonian

(19,907 posts)
4. "smart" quotes?
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:20 PM
Aug 1

I don't remember a problem before.

But there was a software change yesterday.

Those are the only variants I saw for quotes.

usonian

(19,907 posts)
9. They point in different directions, unlike ""
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:36 PM
Aug 1

Styled text editors will convert " " to them if you enable them. May be the default.

Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
13. I think I have to set the curly quote conversion in Word.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 07:03 PM
Aug 1

It's been a while since I set it up - but curly quotes and two spaces after a period are things I use for readability - and I have to set one or both in Word.

Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
7. It isn't even the entire quote.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:31 PM
Aug 1

It is from the initial quote marks to the word "the"

If you leave the quotes and remove the word the - no error.
If you remove the initial quote mark - no error
If you remove the word "subject" or "to" - but leave the initial quote and the word "the" - no error

. . . and now between starting to type this post, playing around removing internal words, and retesting everything - it suddenly doesn't give an error.

In the last 10 minutes I literally checked the phrase - got an error, ran a check to make sure of everything in the three "if" statements above, then retyped the phrase, and now it works without error.



(Sorry about the need to OCR it - I wasn't being cagey, I just couldn't get it to post as text)







Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
11. It's really bizarre.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:58 PM
Aug 1

Removing the quote makes it work. Removing the word "the" (but leaving the quote) makes it work. Removing any of the words in the middle of the phrase (but leaving the quote mark and the word "the&quot

And the newest quirk I've found - placement within the text box matters. Higher up the phrase gives a 403 error; farther down it doesn't.

usonian

(19,907 posts)
8. Test
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 06:34 PM
Aug 1

It's the quote signs. OCR'ed text, and it bounced. See below


states how it interprets, for purposes of enforcement, a provision in the constitution which has not previously been interpreted.
Ultimately, it is the Supreme Court's job to decide whether to adopt that interpretation or not. They are the ultimate arbiters of what the constitution means. And even if it agrees with Trump's interpretation, the constitution is exactly as it was before. It is just that the words of that amendment have a new interpretation - which happens more frequently than you might think.
Trump contends that the phrase, quoteband subject to the jurisdiction thereof,quote should be interpreted to mean people with a permanent legal right to be in this country.
It hasn't been challenged before - and the assumption is that the phrase applies only to people like foreign dignitaries and their families who are not subject to the jurisdiction of our criminal courts (e.g. https://hrvoices.org/article/united-nations-diplomat-accused-of-raping-nyc-neighbor-released-without-charges-after-claiming-immunity/). So if a foreign dignitary is stationed in the United States their diplomatic immunity protects them from the jurisdiction of US criminal laws. Because they are not subject to the jurisdiction of our laws, any child born to them in the US is not granted US citizenship.
I don't see even this Supreme Court buying the argument that immigrants without a legal status are equivalent to diplomats. But that is Trump's contention.

Test 2 it is not a glyph formed by the quote and an adjacent character. Added spaces and it bounced.

Not included for obvious reasons.

Report as strange bug to EarlG.

Ms. Toad

(37,523 posts)
12. It's actually even narrower than what you have highlighted.
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 07:01 PM
Aug 1

It's just from the initial quote mark to the word "the."

If I remove the word "the" it is fine.
If I remove the quote mark it is fine.
If I remove "subject" or "to" it is fine

And the oddest thing is that if it is at the top of the text box it throws the error, but farther down it doesn't.

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