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progree

(11,900 posts)
Thu May 15, 2025, 08:50 AM 13 hrs ago

US wholesale prices unexpectedly drop 0.5% in April

Last edited Thu May 15, 2025, 08:26 PM - Edit history (3)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-wholesale-prices-unexpectedly-drop-123153059.html
No more in this article at the moment. Here is from the BLS:

BLS news release https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm

I use a double minus to make minuses stand out more

I highlight the latest numbers: April and the 12 month numbers

Regular PPI: Jan-Apr, month by month: +0.7%, +0.2%, +0.0%, --0.5%), 12 months: +2.4%,
The average of the last 3 months annualizes to a --1.2% rate (using the actual index numbers for this calculation)

This is the core measure that the BLS highlights:
Core PPi (ex food, energy, and trade services): Jan-Apr: +0.4%, +0.4%, +0.2%, --0.1%, 12 months: +2.9%
The average of the last 3 months annualizes to a +1.8% rate (using the actual index numbers for this calculation)

This is the core measure that the media usually highlights
Core PPI (ex food & energy): Jan-Apr: +0.6%, +0.2%, +0.4, --0.4%, 12 months: +3.1%

Edited to correct the Core PPI (ex food & energy) using the BLS timeseries https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/WPSFD49104 (I previously used the "Less Foods & Energy" in Table A which is under the "Final Demand Goods" columns, and apparently that doesn't include the service components.
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US wholesale prices unexpectedly drop 0.5% in April (Original Post) progree 13 hrs ago OP
You see that word "unexpectantly" is what makes me wonder gab13by13 13 hrs ago #1
Yup. The MarketWatch calendar's group of economists were predicting +0.3% in April for both the regular and core progree 13 hrs ago #3
I think reflex cynicism is as bad as reflex credulity. Both should be avoided Bernardo de La Paz 13 hrs ago #4
This is very good news for the regime -- wholesale prices dropping by 0.5% in April progree 13 hrs ago #6
Prices going down is deflationary. That is NOT good. Case of "careful what you wish for". Bernardo de La Paz 13 hrs ago #7
Not what I heard the head of the LA port say yesterday, gab13by13 13 hrs ago #10
He said there "might" be a rush to stock up. Tariffs on most Chinese stuff is 50% (20% pre-existing + 30% tRump) Bernardo de La Paz 12 hrs ago #11
Everything I read is that the tariffs on most Chinese goods is 30% -- the 10% universal tariff plus 20% as a sanction progree 12 hrs ago #12
Everyone I listened to said the tariff was 30% also. gab13by13 12 hrs ago #14
The PPI is quite volatile (edited) progree 12 hrs ago #13
Core PPI ex food&energy is down 0.4%, is it not? Month on month. Annualized it is up 3.1%, which is less than 4.0% March Bernardo de La Paz 12 hrs ago #15
I'm getting my Core PPI wo food & energy from Table A "Less Foods and Energy" progree 12 hrs ago #16
Very interesting to see the Jan-Apr month to month. Had not seen that together before. Thanks! . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz 13 hrs ago #2
I'm glad you found it helpful 😊 progree 13 hrs ago #5
This also helps Krasnov push Powell gab13by13 13 hrs ago #8
"This also helps Krasnov push Powell to cut interest rates." - for sure /nt progree 13 hrs ago #9

progree

(11,900 posts)
3. Yup. The MarketWatch calendar's group of economists were predicting +0.3% in April for both the regular and core
Thu May 15, 2025, 08:57 AM
13 hrs ago

Bernardo de La Paz

(55,566 posts)
4. I think reflex cynicism is as bad as reflex credulity. Both should be avoided
Thu May 15, 2025, 08:57 AM
13 hrs ago

In this case, the unexpectantly is bad for the regime's case but the reflex is to distrust it just because. IF, big if, those numbers are cooked, why would the regime cook them against themselves.

Relax. Paranoia is sometimes justified, but not in this case.

progree

(11,900 posts)
6. This is very good news for the regime -- wholesale prices dropping by 0.5% in April
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:08 AM
13 hrs ago

which is what Krasnov has been saying all along - that prices are going down.

And the BLS's favored core measure is down 0.1% in April.

Unless the main ppi's drop of 0.5% is so large that one might be worried its a symptom of recession...

Speaking of which, also just out at 8:30 AM ET:

Retail sales slow sharply in April as pre-tariff spending burst reverses
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/retail-sales-slow-sharply-in-april-as-pre-tariff-spending-burst-reverses-123408102.html

Unemployment insurance claims out too: (AI overview, yeah, I'm being lazy)

In the week ending April 26, 2025, initial jobless claims in the US rose to 241,000, the highest level since February and exceeding market expectations. This marks an increase of 18,000 from the previous week's revised figure. The 4-week moving average of initial claims also increased to 226,000. These figures suggest a slight weakening in the labor market, though some economists still see the overall economy as health


Edited to add: These (retail sales and unemployment insurance claims) are NOT recessionary level numbers, but they are slowdown numbers (edited again to add the "NOT" )

Bernardo de La Paz

(55,566 posts)
7. Prices going down is deflationary. That is NOT good. Case of "careful what you wish for".
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:12 AM
13 hrs ago

These are Producer Prices, which are a step removed from Consumer Prices. Consumer prices are more directly affected by tariff taxes.

It may mean distributors and wholesalers and retailers may not be ordering as much, driving US production down. Or production is steady but inventories are building up and prices being lowered to try to move it. The Great Depression was triggered by overproduction (esp agricultural). Also don't forget that US exports are under pressure due to reciprocal tariffs.

gab13by13

(28,088 posts)
10. Not what I heard the head of the LA port say yesterday,
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:19 AM
13 hrs ago

He said there will be a rush to stock up inventories.

Bernardo de La Paz

(55,566 posts)
11. He said there "might" be a rush to stock up. Tariffs on most Chinese stuff is 50% (20% pre-existing + 30% tRump)
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:26 AM
12 hrs ago

I got a sense that any such rush would be less than the 30 % dropoff.

Plus the 145% tariff taxes are not erased. Just paused. tRump's big announcement from Geneva was a commitment to talk. No real change in rules or practices.

progree

(11,900 posts)
12. Everything I read is that the tariffs on most Chinese goods is 30% -- the 10% universal tariff plus 20% as a sanction
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:31 AM
12 hrs ago

for China's alleged role in fentanyl production. That's from several articles.

Though 30% is still a lot. And yes, it is only a temporary reprieve.

gab13by13

(28,088 posts)
14. Everyone I listened to said the tariff was 30% also.
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:40 AM
12 hrs ago

Chinese ships take time to sail to the US and I think it was around May 10th that the last 30% tariffed ship arrived here. Most of the 145% tariffed Chinese ships never left China.

progree

(11,900 posts)
13. The PPI is quite volatile (edited)
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:39 AM
12 hrs ago

Last edited Thu May 15, 2025, 10:44 AM - Edit history (2)

This is a month-by-month graph I made in March when the February numbers came out.

from: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143416825#post6
which also shows the core PPI (ex food, energy, and trade services) graphs.

I note also that April's core PPI (ex food and energy) is +0.4%, and that the Federal Reserve is much more focused on core measures than the "everything" headline measure. Edit: Correction: MINUS 0.4%, thanks Bernardo. 0.4% is a worrisome drop for one month, especially since the less food & energy core is considerably less volatile than the regular PPi number. On the other hand, the core measure that the BLS highlights: the one ex food, energy, and trade services, is down a considerably less precipitous 0.1%. Trade services is very volatile month-to-month which is why the BLS (and presumably the Fed) prefers a core measure without it.

Bernardo de La Paz

(55,566 posts)
15. Core PPI ex food&energy is down 0.4%, is it not? Month on month. Annualized it is up 3.1%, which is less than 4.0% March
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:44 AM
12 hrs ago

progree

(11,900 posts)
16. I'm getting my Core PPI wo food & energy from Table A "Less Foods and Energy"
Thu May 15, 2025, 10:09 AM
12 hrs ago
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm

Admittedly it's under the "final demand goods" column.

I don't see any column in any of the tables that gives the annual number for this quantity.

But, I found the BLS time series for this: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/WPSFD49104
YEAR Jan Feb Mar Apr etc.
2024 140.757 141.200 141.375 142.070 142.479 143.245 143.137 143.756 144.376 144.897 144.836 145.431
2025 146.247 146.477 147.061 146.410


Yes, from March to April it declined 0.44%
and April'25 over April'24 is +3.054%,
rounding to the numbers that you say: -0.4% and +3.1% 

I'll redo my core ex food & energy in my OP using these index numbers, sigh.


Bernardo de La Paz

(55,566 posts)
2. Very interesting to see the Jan-Apr month to month. Had not seen that together before. Thanks! . . . . nt
Thu May 15, 2025, 08:53 AM
13 hrs ago

gab13by13

(28,088 posts)
8. This also helps Krasnov push Powell
Thu May 15, 2025, 09:16 AM
13 hrs ago

to cut interest rates. Krasnov wants a weak dollar, wants strong Crypto so he personally makes more money.

Yeah, terrible of me believing that someone like Krasnov would cook the books. I also think he cooked the latest CPI numbers.

I don't know shit about the economy but I know a lot about Krasnov.

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