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brush

(61,010 posts)
Thu Jul 31, 2025, 11:28 AM Jul 31

DU economy experts: please explain why trump and his sycophants...

Commerce Sec'y Howard Lutnick was on cable this morning blathering how much money was flowing into the US Treasury from tariff deals made with S. Korea, Japan, the UK and other countries. Of course Lutnick knows that's not true and has to say such things to keep his job. Apparently trump somehow still believes that foreign exporting companies pay tariffs. Many others know that importers pay the tariffs and eventually recoup their costs by passing on the expense to us customers by raised prices, thus inflation.

GM right now is eating some one billion in tariff costs so as not raise their car prices but that won't last forever.

My big question iis why impose tariffs on countries in the European Union with approximately equal back and forth trade, why have any tarlff at all? TSF has recently set it at 15%. 15% minus 15% equals nothing, right?

9 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Bernardo de La Paz

(57,666 posts)
1. 1) Lies about revenue, 2) Onshoring lies, 3) National security lies
Thu Jul 31, 2025, 11:38 AM
Jul 31

1) As you state, the revenue is a tax on Americans. I get a sense now from economists and business analysts that about 80% of the tax will be paid by consumers and the other 20% will be split between exporting companies and importing companies.

Further, as international trade inevitably declines under tariff regimes, tariff tax revenue declines.

2) The social goal, as stated, is onshoring of manufacturing, supposedly for jobs. But Lutnick and others have spoken the quiet part outloud a couple of times that robots will get most of the jobs. So the onshoring for jobs is a lie.

3) Supposedly national security is a motivation so that in times of war the US could produce onshore all it needs for a war effort. Thing is that when an economy shifts to a war effort, consumer goods dry up as production shifts. So one doesn't need a massive industrial base to produce what is needed because even a big base, merely big as the US base, can carry the load. Some strategic areas like rare earth magnets do need onshoring, but those are few and far between.

4) I am no economy expert.

markodochartaigh

(3,698 posts)
2. Ha Ha
Thu Jul 31, 2025, 11:48 AM
Jul 31

Your post makes it sound like you are trying to ascribe logic to an authoritarian Strong Leader who is surrounded by sycophants who regurgitate policy based not on facts and logic, but on belief and the palatability of the policy to the Strong Leader and his self-interested supporters. An authoritarian Strong Leader who got where he is not by a well-reasoned campaign directed toward a base of rational and informed voters, but by a campaign distinguished chiefly by lies and an appeal to irrational prejudice directed toward a base of authoritarians who use their belief systems to direct their lives with little regard to the truth.

brush

(61,010 posts)
3. Guilty as charged. But even an authoritarian like TSF must know that 15% minus 15% equals nothing gained or accomplished
Thu Jul 31, 2025, 12:01 PM
Jul 31

Notice I was kind and called him an authoritarian and not a moron.

Abolishinist

(2,704 posts)
8. You failed to factor in the upbeat effect on the economy
Sat Aug 2, 2025, 03:07 PM
Aug 2

by getting drug prices down 1,000 percent, 600 percent, 500 percent, 1,500 percent.

brush

(61,010 posts)
9. You actualy attribute that to trump himself? Please. He figured that out while on one of his golf courses I guess?
Sat Aug 2, 2025, 03:13 PM
Aug 2

Farmer-Rick

(11,954 posts)
4. The thing is tariffs could work
Sat Aug 2, 2025, 09:46 AM
Aug 2

If there were a vibrant economy to fill the gaps caused by the failing import market.

But the US economy is dominated by corporations that prefer cheap labor to efficient and expert labor. So they move their manufacturing to Asia and other cheap labor countries while still selling their product here in the US. So, these corporations are the ones paying the tariffs, and they then pass on that expense to their customers.

As these corporations raise prices, a smart businessman could offer the same product for less if.......it could be made in the US. But the US no longer has the expertise, the supply chain, the infrastructure of markets to produce the products the corporations produce in cheap labor countries.

To go from a majority import economy to one dominated by in-country businesses takes careful planning and flexible policy otherwise you get the same sort of economic crash you got when you first sent all those jobs to foreign countries. Think 2008 crash.

Also the open borders for trade, when most all regulations were removed, where anyone can sell their products in the US market, caused millions of American companies to go bankrupt trying to compete with cheaper products from cheap labor countries. That American infrastructure of American based manufacturing went away when Free Trade agreements were handed out left and right.

So there is no infrastructure to rebuild an American based business environment. It needed to be created first, then apply tariffs to specific companies you want to encourage.

It's like they knocked down the dam, the flood waters rushed in and now they want to push back that water with tiny tariff paddles. It ain't going to work ...But also you have some very stupid people trying to figure this out and they aren't very good at it. There will be another crash much like when they took all the jobs and trade restrictions away.

brush

(61,010 posts)
5. Tariffs work? When? They cause inflation then recessions.
Sat Aug 2, 2025, 11:06 AM
Aug 2

See the Smoote-Halley Tariff Act and the Great Depression.
"Instead of stimulating the economy, it worsened the global economic downturn, leading to retaliatory tariffs from other countries and a decline in international trade. This drastic economic shift resulted in a 66% drop in world trade between 1929 and 1934, amplifying economic hardship."

As for trump's intentions to bring back lost domestic manufacturing, it'll take years to tool up with factories, many farmers will have lost their farms and there will be economic hardship.

Ya can't fight history. Tariffs cause recessions, and worse.

Farmer-Rick

(11,954 posts)
6. Yeah, they worked for the US back in the 1800s
Sat Aug 2, 2025, 12:08 PM
Aug 2

And early 1900s.But we did have huge undeveloped area with huge amounts of resources.

Tariffs are not an automatic trade killer. Many countries in the EU have tariffs. They use their VAT taxes in very similar ways to tariffs. When a product is exported out of the country, the VAT is removed. When a product is imported into the country the VAT is added. Adding a tax to imports is the very definition of tariffs.

But with VATs it is better controlled and based on actual costs. It's not arbitrarily added because their president is angry at the foreign country for not providing a big enough bribe.

If pedo Trump had been smarter, or if the idiots who wrote the 2025 plan had half a brain, they would have instituted a VAT tax, or at least called it something else.

Aside from that I agree with everything else you said.

brush

(61,010 posts)
7. We're not in the early 20th century. These trump tariffs are not working.
Sat Aug 2, 2025, 12:18 PM
Aug 2

India just cancel a big order for fighter jets because trump set a 30% tariff on them, and I doubt India's cancellation will be the last.

Lot' of jobs lost.

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