Creative thinkers can't be contained in the box of traditional education. That is a difficult situation for any but the best of educators to deal with. I always heard the same crap from my teachers. He doesn't perform as well as his IQ says he should. Performs below expectations.
Well hell yes! I was bored beyond tears. I spent most of my time watching the real world out the window or sketching things I wanted to build. I only had three or four teachers who could really challenge me to do my best. They were all science and math.

I don't think teachers don't like creative students. They just realize how much of a challenge they are.
My field is electronics repair. I love it because I want to understand how things I can't see work. I've always been pretty good at my job. I think a good teacher needs the same skills as I rely on. You might not be able to see the direct results of what you do or can only measure some result of what's going on.
Teaching, like my trade are as much art as science.

During my working life, I was usually the first choice to get trained on new products. One thing that taught me was that the best learning exersize is to teach someone else. I probably spent three times the hours preparing lesson plans as I did in class learning the information.

her head is in the clouds dreaming of her future acting career She's focusing enough to get mostly A's and a few B's, so I refuse to respond to the teacher who told me "she's a little firecracker isn't she?". She sure the hell is, and I wouldn't want her any other way. The day she stops questioning authority is the day I've failed.

I do coach her on watching her temper and try to make homework more fun but it's a challenge. I certainly don't have to do that when she goes to rehearsal for children's theater however - there she is completely focused and has no problem doing what her director asks. Of course he also allows questions and suggestions from the kids. Some teachers welcome that, but not the typical math or science teacher in a public school.

I'm already thinking ahead to when she enters high school. I've got a local performing arts school in mind ... will likely have to go back to work so I can afford it for her.

I am an art teacher. I do nothing but encourage creativity.

Maxwell never follows my assignments, and doesn't always come up with great stuff, but he is wildly creative. I encourage him. Others do follow the assignment but make it their own. I have lots of talented, creative kids.

I note that the OP quotes studies going back to the early '60s, with the most recent study being 1980. How viable is this?

Old studies. Bashing teachers.

Why do you feel the need to post this HERE?

The conclusion of this report is:

PS, don't worry about the "professionals" who post here. They've got a fat pension to protect and want *no* changes in the educational system.

Last edited Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Any reason to post this libertarian trash here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_Revolution_%28blog%29

Yes, teachers struggle with classroom management and large classes and helicopter parents - but the vast majority of teachers LOVE creatives students! Teachers recognize kids who think out of the box and usually encourage them!!! I know from experience there have to be limits because some creative activities don't work well in school (you can't let the students make a porn movie or light things on fire; which is not really far-fetched 'cause those are proposals that I've gotten from HS students!). Creative students love satire (see Torrance) and rebellion - and the TEACHER catches hell when those students write a news article criticizing the local state representative!

Performing arts and independent work is discouraged by HIGH-STAKES TESTING that holds the teacher responsible for a paced and scripted curriculum and specific content to be memorized! Most teachers steer creative kids into special programs and let them go, except the administrative observation will call them down if ALL the kids aren't ON-TASK. Remember, the principal is often "a football coach who lost too many games so they put him in charge" or some similar aberration.

Five of the last ten American Idol winners were identified and encouraged by ELEMENTARY teachers (look it up). Teachers in college education programs are taught to watch out for creative students; help them to enrich their thinking, and work with parents for the best interest of the students.

Teachers from all these new "alternative programs" often don't get that information. Well-funded schools have programs for gifted, creative, and performing students (not just athletics). If you schools don't have that - then get out there and fight for better funded public schools!!

The most recent being 1992. That doesn't automatically negate their findings, but I'd dispute the conclusions.

THIS teacher has always loved creative people, including students in my classrooms. The structure of the system we work within doesn't always support the fostering of creativity as described in this article, though, especially in the decades since those studies were done. "The classroom isn't designed for impulsive expression..." that's true. Who "designed" the classroom structure we work within?

It might be interesting to poll teachers. How many teachers LIKE cramming as many kids as will fit into a classroom, teaching large groups in small spaces, with regimented standards, testing, and pacing? How many would run their classes differently given support and permission to do so?

In the current environment, creativity isn't tested, and we are all supposed to be obsessed with achieving acceptable standardized test scores. Our job evaluations and, in some cases, our pay, revolve around test scores. Everything is supposed to be "data-driven." Let's face it; that's a recipe guaranteed to kill creativity for all of us, teachers included.

Some of us get real creative in trying to find ways to sneak some things back in, under the radar, that allow for creativity. It's not easy, though, when our bosses are going to ask, not just us, but our students, what standard is being taught/learned for every activity we do, how that activity teaches that standard, and how students will be assessed to determine if they've mastered it.

It might be even more interesting to poll parents about what kind of education they want for their students; what kind of systemic structure they'd support.

I would call that a flat out lie.

If they want, instead, to suggest that traditional educational institutions may stifle creativity, or that creativity might be discouraged by some teachers, then I might be less disturbed.

there is a lot to fault our education system on, but this seems not part of the problem. Our system reinforces cookie cutter student types/behaviors/learning but I don't think teachers actively discourage these kids. It's just hard to keep the class focused and moving ahead to meet all those blasted testing goals.

Teachers in 2011 wish we could be more creative, accept creativity as an expression of knowledge, etc. The standardized tests, however, do not allow for it. Since its all about standardized tests, teachers have little room in their day for "little Picassos" as much as they might like to see them. The biggest mistake here is the belief that teachers don't like creative students. Its all about the pressure on teachers to make students test well on standards tests.

Interesting justification by a narcissist excusing themselves from societal norms.

I've been in the classroom 3 decades and have had thousands of creative souls come through here. I teach "regular" kids, yes, those souls that aren't in AP or IB or AVID or SpecEd, those that are warehoused into spaces while all the "important" groups are being agonized over.

How about:
The economics class that raised $450 ($15 each from 30 kids) and opened an online trading account and turned it into $6300 in 10 weeks during a stock market game? That one got me written up for allowing the students to gamble at school.

The entrepreneurs who talked teachers into giving them homework passes and then resold them to their fellow students? That one got me written up for "subverting school policies on late work."

The group of government students who sent 47 of their fellows to a school board meeting and who followed procedures to speak out individually against a district transfer policy? That one got me written up for contributing to a negative atmosphere at school.

The study group who ordered a small Chinese buffet for 10 every Wednesday delivered to my class while they worked? That one got me written up for violating the Food Services monopoly on eating on-campus.

This year, our Christmas door entry was titled "137 reasons we couldn't get our door decorated" and was covered with 3x5 cards with excuses in bright holiday colors. Some of my favorites: "I suddenly got allergic to that - cough - cough"; I thought it was tomorrow"; "You have no authority to question me"; "I was making hotpockets"; "This wasn't for a grade." Fun and many students and staff stopped by and read it until they were late to class. We were disqualified because we didn't have a holiday theme.

I now have students in the medical field, two studying at the London School, several restaurant owners, several landlords, and many who have their own families and whose children I now have the pleasure of teaching.

TEACHERS don't like creative students? BULLSHIT. ADMINISTRATORS don't like creative anything, that's what.

give me the resources I need to build a program, don't lay us off disrupting the continuity that building a program entails, don't change our teaching assignment every year or two making us start over...give us the time and resources to build capacity and we will do just fine.

More to the point of the OP, teaching and teachers have changed significantly since A Nation at Risk. These studies don't match the current reality.

Bashing teachers with decades old stats is just not productive and as I suspected, draws out DUers with a history of bashing teachers who also do not contribute positively to discussions.

For those new to the group, there is a long history of non teachers coming into this group and bashing teachers by claiming we are only taking the stands we take so we can protect our pensions or continue the status quo. And nothing could be further from the truth.

I believe we can have reasonable discussions without bashing teachers. We are not going there. It accomplishes nothing.

I've also blocked one DUer from posting here.

Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further.

proud