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aranthus

(3,398 posts)
Mon May 19, 2025, 09:24 AM May 19

International 'do-gooders' aren't helping Gazans

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/international-do-gooders-aren-t-helping-gazans/ar-AA1F1QLQ?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=2b1d8cb5e24146ccb4f303e073b2860f&ei=37

Two of Israel’s war aims are to destroy Hamas’s military capabilities and prevent it from continuing to govern Gaza. Last week, the IDF began an intensive campaign to finish off the terrorist group. This has been prepared over the past 11 weeks by blocking supplies into Gaza. That has been necessary because until now Hamas has been hijacking food and other aid entering the Strip, stockpiling some for its own use and selling the rest to the population at inflated prices. The proceeds of aid sales have been essential for Hamas to fund its terrorist activities, given that most other sources of income have been cut off.

Israel has come under fire, including from our own Government, for preventing aid from entering. Many have claimed this is a breach of international law, citing Article 23 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which requires essential aid to be allowed into enemy territory. They conveniently ignore the proviso that this need not be done if there are “serious reasons for fearing that the consignments may be diverted from their destination”. The IDF is clear that aid has been hijacked and looted by Hamas. Numerous videos and eyewitness reports have shown that same picture.
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International 'do-gooders' aren't helping Gazans (Original Post) aranthus May 19 OP
Amazing the Arab countries don't form an interim police and governance force. All claim the Palestinian cause and... dutch777 May 19 #1
Are you thinking it's time for a Middle East War? AloeVera May 19 #5
I do not recall any Arab countries declaring war on Israel recently. And a police force and civil admin is not an army. dutch777 May 19 #9
Might want to read up on the author, Richard Kemp. Ocelot II May 19 #2
No one is unbiased. aranthus May 19 #4
Yeah, choie May 19 #3
Not one aid agency has said looting by Hamas is a problem. AloeVera May 19 #6
None of them said that the Pope is Catholic either. Beastly Boy May 19 #8
Nearly 100 food aid trucks violently looted in Gaza, UN agencies say Mosby May 20 #10
When people have nothing to eat, they resort to looting! AloeVera May 20 #11
UN uses Hamas government numbers and words as absolute truth. Most of this has been debunked, including AZLD4Candidate Saturday #12
It was from the IPC report. Not Hamas. AloeVera Saturday #13
UN and IPC quota Hamas government officials. It's always women and children, but there seem to be AZLD4Candidate Saturday #14
It is Israel. Rather, it's Netanyahu and the extreme right-wing lunatics blackmailing Israel into its self-destruction. AloeVera Saturday #15
It is Israel. That's where this ends. As I have stated for years, Israel can nothing nothing correctly AZLD4Candidate Sunday #16
Those who invoke Article 23 of the fourth Geneva convention never bothered to read it. Beastly Boy May 19 #7
Is Hamas a "high contracting party" to the Geneva Conventions? lapucelle Sunday #17
Yep, none of the vocal critics of Israel ever acknowledge that Hamas has no intention Beastly Boy Sunday #18

dutch777

(4,533 posts)
1. Amazing the Arab countries don't form an interim police and governance force. All claim the Palestinian cause and...
Mon May 19, 2025, 09:32 AM
May 19

...then do very little meaningful to help Palestinians with an on the ground effort. Sending food and medicine that never gets delivered and prayers and well wishes is just BS to a starving child. African nations can even manage this. Trump was just in the Middle East and did zippo...par usual...well, line his own and family's pockets doesn't count.

AloeVera

(2,903 posts)
5. Are you thinking it's time for a Middle East War?
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:02 PM
May 19

It's the only way I can interpret this:

Amazing the Arab countries don't form an interim police and governance force. All claim the Palestinian cause and...
...then do very little meaningful to help Palestinians with an on the ground effort.


The only way Arab countries could get into Gaza would be over the dead bodies of IDF soldiers. After having declared war on Israel. Not a likely scenario.

As for food and other aid not being delivered - why do you think that is? Yes, there are hundreds of trucks at the border, all that food going to waste. Who do you think is preventing the entry of all those aid trucks and enforcing a literal siege? It's not the Arab countries.

dutch777

(4,533 posts)
9. I do not recall any Arab countries declaring war on Israel recently. And a police force and civil admin is not an army.
Mon May 19, 2025, 07:58 PM
May 19

Yes, I would say that Iran and Yemeni rebels firing missiles etc. at Israel are a de facto declaration of war. The prior Syrian regime was hostile, although the current one seems willing to sit this one out despite IDF incursions and bombings. Egypt, Jordan and others have peace treaties with Israel. Certainly a major Arab military operation would be viewed as hostile and certainly any policing and alternative government effort would need to be with prior agreement that remaining Hamas elements are to be disarmed and arms caches and such still sought out. And maybe the Israelis would have none of of it. But, I still think it is interesting Arab neighbors have proposed NOTHING on behalf of the Palestinians while telling their own populace that they care about Palestinian lives and their domestic political support somewhat reliant on that.

Ocelot II

(125,038 posts)
2. Might want to read up on the author, Richard Kemp.
Mon May 19, 2025, 09:50 AM
May 19

He's a British conservative commentator and the head of the UK Friends of the Association for the Wellbeing of Israel’s Soldiers (UK-AWIS), the UK branch of AWIS, an Israeli organization managed by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), so he isn't exactly unbiased. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kemp

aranthus

(3,398 posts)
4. No one is unbiased.
Mon May 19, 2025, 12:02 PM
May 19

Last edited Mon May 19, 2025, 01:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm aware of Kemp's. In this case, he's not wrong.

AloeVera

(2,903 posts)
6. Not one aid agency has said looting by Hamas is a problem.
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:26 PM
May 19

Rather, they have said that there is very little, IF ANY, theft by Hamas. They state they have rigorous mechanisms for tracking "leakage" and have not found any issues of concern.

Where is that "overwhelming evidence" IDF claims to have? Do you know? (Please no one post those few laughable videos from a year or so ago). Hard evidence from aid agencies, showing the amount of "leakage", where and when it occurred and how. That would be non-existent.

Who are you gonna believe? The IDF and Netanyahu or the aid agencies tasked with saving lives who have no axe to grind and nothing to gain from lying?

Unfortunately some people continue to push the IDF narrative, including this Richard Kemp, an opponent of DEI in the military, and of investigating soldiers accused of crimes, a Brexiter, and overall right-wing supporter of Netanyahu and his wars on Gaza.

Beastly Boy

(12,558 posts)
8. None of them said that the Pope is Catholic either.
Mon May 19, 2025, 03:00 PM
May 19

So the Pope being an observant Jew is not a problem to them, right?

Mosby

(18,587 posts)
10. Nearly 100 food aid trucks violently looted in Gaza, UN agencies say
Tue May 20, 2025, 02:25 PM
May 20
Nearly 100 trucks carrying food for Palestinians were violently looted on Nov. 16 after entering Gaza in one of the worst aid losses during 13 months of war in the enclave, where hunger is deepening, two U.N. agencies told Reuters on Monday.
The convoy transporting food provided by U.N. agencies UNRWA and the World Food Programme was instructed by Israel to depart at short notice via an unfamiliar route from Kerem Shalom border crossing, said Louise Wateridge, UNRWA Senior Emergency Officer.


https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/large-gaza-food-convoy-violently-looted-unrwa-says-2024-11-18/


Witnesses and aid groups report a surge in looting in desperate Gaza
Updated 10:30 AM MST, May 3, 2025

Armed groups and others have looted warehouses of supplies in northern Gaza as desperation spikes after more than two months of Israel’s blockade of the territory, locals and aid workers said Saturday as Israel’s latest airstrikes killed more than a dozen people.

Unidentified people, both armed and unarmed, have been looting U.N. and aid groups’ warehouses, as well as bakeries and shops since Wednesday, according to witnesses, organizations in Gaza and messages that were circulated among security officials for aid groups and were seen by The Associated Press.


https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-news-03-05-2025-ed66bddfcfbb543677b38dcdde2e18b3


AloeVera

(2,903 posts)
11. When people have nothing to eat, they resort to looting!
Tue May 20, 2025, 03:24 PM
May 20

In both cases the looting occurred after weeks - 2 months! - of Israel's siege on aid. When no food had been allowed in.

So just think about please. If you were in that situation, with YOUR family starving... It's only human...

Further, according to these articles, these looters were not Hamas fighters. They were either unarmed civilians, but mostly armed criminal gang members. In fact, as mentioned, Hamas, through its police forces, fought the criminal gang looters and killed many of them.

But you want to know something very strange? I have read that sometimes the IDF looks the other way when these armed criminal gangs loot the lorries or warehouses. That is not good at all.

The solution to the looting, of course, is for Israel to allow aid through, as it is obligated under international law. There are 14,000 BABIES in Gaza at risk of starvation in the next 48 hours, according to the UN. Please let that sink in.


AZLD4Candidate

(6,647 posts)
12. UN uses Hamas government numbers and words as absolute truth. Most of this has been debunked, including
Sat May 31, 2025, 05:43 PM
Saturday

last week.

This 14,000 number comes from what OBJECTIVE source please. Saying the UN doesn't work anymore. The UN uses Hamas' word as etched in truthful stone. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143463434

That have been on the 48 hour verge of starvation for over a month now.

AloeVera

(2,903 posts)
13. It was from the IPC report. Not Hamas.
Sat May 31, 2025, 08:04 PM
Saturday

Whether it was a lie or a misinterpretation of the IPC numbers, it doesn't matter. It doesn't take away from the reality of what the people of Gaza are enduring.

The god-awful reality is that people are starving. I can link to any number of articles and reports but you can find them too - if you wanted to.

It is horrendous.

AZLD4Candidate

(6,647 posts)
14. UN and IPC quota Hamas government officials. It's always women and children, but there seem to be
Sat May 31, 2025, 10:43 PM
Saturday

enough supplies to keep their fighters in good health.

Maybe people saying supplies going into Gaza are being siphoned off by Hamas to feed their fighters isn't FAR from the truth.

But I know. . .it's always Israel.

AloeVera

(2,903 posts)
15. It is Israel. Rather, it's Netanyahu and the extreme right-wing lunatics blackmailing Israel into its self-destruction.
Sat May 31, 2025, 11:03 PM
Saturday

Those who love Israel should be saying enough! before it's too late. Even those who don't particularly care about Palestinians.

Not one aid agency has said Hamas is stealing aid. Cindy McCain of the WFP has come out and outright denied it.

The "Hamas is stealing aid" lie is just a convenient excuse to sideline humanitarian aid agencies that can actually prevent the starvation and replace them with the shady, ineffective, inexperienced and dubious private mercenary contractors - ensuring Palestinians remain on the verge of starvation while being corralled into smaller enclaves and displaced from their homes. Those enclaves are located close to the Sinai, through which they will eventually be ethnically cleansed.

A few days ago desperate, hungry people overran the warehouse of the new privatized "aid" agency, and the trucks, looted everything. One Palestinian was killed by the IDF and others injured. Exactly what the UN warned would happen.

The whole thing is a diabolical invention and unmitigated cruelty.

Your mmv.

AZLD4Candidate

(6,647 posts)
16. It is Israel. That's where this ends. As I have stated for years, Israel can nothing nothing correctly
Sun Jun 1, 2025, 09:29 AM
Sunday

and Hamas has amazing PR for their terrorism.

Lost in all of this. . .THEY STARTED THIS WAR!!! If Hamas really cared about the people that elected them, Oct 7 would never have happened.

Beastly Boy

(12,558 posts)
7. Those who invoke Article 23 of the fourth Geneva convention never bothered to read it.
Mon May 19, 2025, 02:41 PM
May 19

But it would be of interest to some DUers who would make you believe that Israel's obligations are unconditional. So here it is, in its entirety (bolding mine):

ART. 23. — Each High Contracting Party shall allow the free
passage of all consignments of medical and hospital stores and
objects necessary for religious worship intended only for civilians of
another High Contracting Party, even if the latter is its adversary. It
shall likewise permit the free passage of all consignments of
essential foodstuffs, clothing and tonics intended for children under
fifteen, expectant mothers and maternity cases.
The obligation of a High Contracting Party to allow the free
passage of the consignments indicated in the preceding paragraph
is subject to the condition that this Party is satisfied that there are no
serious reasons for fearing:
a) that the consignments may be diverted from their destination,
b) that the control may not be effective, or
c) that a definite advantage may accrue to the military efforts or
economy of the enemy through the substitution of the above-
mentioned consignments for goods which would otherwise
be provided or produced by the enemy or through the release
of such material, services or facilities as would otherwise be
required for the production of such goods.
The Power which allows the passage of the consignments
indicated in the first paragraph of this Article may make such
permission conditional on the distribution to the persons benefited
thereby being made under the local supervision of the Protecting
Powers.

Such consignments shall be forwarded as rapidly as possible, and
the Power which permits their free passage shall have the right to
prescribe the technical arrangements under which such passage is
allowed.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

lapucelle

(20,250 posts)
17. Is Hamas a "high contracting party" to the Geneva Conventions?
Sun Jun 1, 2025, 10:39 AM
Sunday

If not, then Israel's obligations under the Geneva Conventions are further limited.

Although one of the Powers in conflict may not be a party to the present Convention, the Powers who are parties thereto shall remain bound by it in their mutual relations. They shall furthermore be bound by the Convention in relation to the said Power, if the latter accepts and applies the provisions thereof.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

Beastly Boy

(12,558 posts)
18. Yep, none of the vocal critics of Israel ever acknowledge that Hamas has no intention
Sun Jun 1, 2025, 11:02 AM
Sunday

to abide by any rules at all, let alone their ridiculous expectations of Israel. And they keep pretending that the lawless terrorists who mock the Geneva Conventions are entitled to the same protections as their signatories.

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