Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumIsraeli strike kills nine of Gaza doctor's children, hospital says
Mallory Moench
BBC News
Nasser hospital said one of Dr Alaa al-Najjar's children and her husband were injured, but survived. Graeme Groom, a British surgeon working in the hospital, said he had operated on her surviving 11-year-old boy.
A video shared by the director of the Hamas-run health ministry and verified by the BBC showed small burned bodies being lifted from the rubble of a strike in Khan Younis on Friday.
---snip---
Dr Muneer Alboursh, director of the health ministry, said on X that the al-Najjars' family house was hit minutes after Dr al-Najjar's husband Hamdi had returned home after driving his wife to work.
Dr Alboursh said the eldest of Dr al-Najjar's children was aged 12.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0eq9lq7xr1o
The AI program called "Where's Daddy?" was designed specifically to track targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their familys residences, often at night when their entire families were sleeping. Or at any time, apparently.
This is why there are so many women and children casualties. It's unconscionable.
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

John1956PA
(4,124 posts)That technology was in place regarding the missile strike which Hegseth blabbed about to his brother and to his lawyer, and which the Atlantic editor was privy to via the Signal Chat snafu.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Hegseth and the U.S. may have copied it or borrowed it?
It's used in conjunction with another AI called Lavender that generates targets based on some questionable criteria. It has resulted in some "errors".
As for smart bombs, this is what the 972 Magazine article says:
(Bolding mine)
"Unimportant people" and their unimportant neighbours and families....not worth the price of smart bombs.
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)were located and killed?
Surely you must know by now what happens to hospitals that are used to commit, outside their
humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy, and why the presence of a protected person may not be used
to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, and which party to the conflict is responsible for the treatment accorded to protected people, no?
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)And the lack of concern for nine dead children, killed through a war crime of bombing a civilian home while knowing it was full of kids - is noted indeed.
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)And forgive me for not giving your presumptive assertions equal weight to the Geneva Conventions.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)Why would the doctor's husband be targeted?
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)AloeVera
(2,903 posts)N/T
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)there's a coterie of folks who showed up on tiktok October 8 through October 14, 2023, and before Israeli had taken a single step against Hamas, the absurd talking points were on full display.
Two things are always consistently missing from the melodramatic tiktok videos: there has never been any anger towards Hamas for destroying Gaza, using civilians as human shields, and stealing food from children over the past two decades and none of the melodramatic hand-wringers has ever come forward to any offer to help to the anti-Hamas protestors and resistance fighters in Gaza who continue to risk their lives every day to try to rid their fellow Palestinians of the scourge of Hamas. There is never even a mention of them. Their cause has been lost to a different agenda.
Not everyone is an easily gaslit by the continual gong of the same repetitive sanctimony that influencers disseminate day in and day out. Odd that there is never content either against Hamas or for the people of Gaza. But because influencers are anything but subtle, it is obvious exactly who it is exactly for and who it is against.
Influencers need to spare the rest of the world their sanctimony and wake up to the fact that they are being used bad actors with one goal.
Of course, I could be proven wrong if any of those who shill content ever get off their asses and do something, anything to help and support the anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza who they have been ignoring for the better part of 18 months.
I won't hold my breath.
-------------------------------------
I find it enlightening to read profiles and first posts.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Over 10,000 bombs dropped in the first week on that crowded, little strip of land. Just a little inaccuracy I wanted to clear up. Cuz there really WAS something to protest in the first week. Not that Israel's supporters saw anything wrong, cherrwd it on.
As for the rest...there you go AGAIN.
Ever mindful of the TOS, right?
But what does any of that have to do with the murdered children?
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)You didn't know that?
Did you also not know that healthcare workers are also targets? Odd. It's been widely covered. Perhaps not in pro-Israrl media. Might be time to broaden your horizons.
More than a thousand of them have been killed. Often along with their entire families. As seems to be the case here.
Hundreds more imprisoned, tortured. Over 300 still in Israeli torture-jails.
All victims and hostages to Israel's systematic destruction of the health-care system.
It's astonishing and saddening that, in a thread about nine dead children and Israel's war crime of deliberately killing targets' families through the use of a sadistically-named and designed AI program - there are still people who think this is all ok "because Hamas".
This refusal to see and to defend atrocities is very disturbing. I wager to most people by now.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)https://jewishchronicle.timesofisrael.com/journalist-doctor-held-israelis-hostage-in-gaza/
--------------------------------------------------
In the aftermath of last months rescue, neighbors in Nuseirat, a refugee camp in central Gaza, told CNN they were shocked to learn that Ahmed Aljamal, a physician, and his family had kept hostages in their midst.
Had we known, had he told us, we would have taken safety precautions, hide or move to somewhere else, one neighbor, Abu Muhammad El Tahrawi, said.
Dr. Aljamal, 74, was a general practitioner and also led the call to prayer at the local mosque, waking early every day to get there before dawn.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/19/middleeast/gaza-neighborhood-israeli-hostages-intl-cmd
--------------------------------------------------------------
To the outside world, they were a physician, a journalist. No one suspected their apartment had become a prison.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/the-hostages-next-door-inside-a-notable-gaza-familys-dark-secret-2896f6aa

AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Collective punishment of course is Israel's thing. You just confirmed you see nothing wrong with it.
You can't seem to grasp the very basic laws of war or humanity. It's an issue I see with most Israel supporters.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)He relied on his neighbors to serve as human shields and exposed his grandchildren to all the dangers concommitant to the terrorist lifestyle.
Picaro
(2,005 posts)Taking a specific incident and generalizing it to condemn an entire population is what others have done. It has always been proven to be wrong.
Trump is doing it with migrants now. The U.S. did this with native Americans. Later law enforcement did this with Italian immigrants and Irish immigrants.
This looks no better on the Israeli IDF and Netenyahu Likud government.
By your logic every massacre can be justified because someone in the hated group did something hateful and vile.
This is not how the moral scales are balanced.
Im utterly disgusted by what the Israeli government and the IDF are doing.
That doesnt mean I support mindless terroristic action against the Israeli people.
This man was wrong and was making the same error in ethical logic you are currently making.
NH Ethylene
(31,143 posts)Israeli was horrifically attacked. Palestinians are being indiscriminately slaughtered.
We aren't rooting for sports teams here.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)You do this very thing in your own post.
Picaro
(2,005 posts)Im from Missouri. Show me. Just reread my post and Im not seeing it.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)Reread your post again. Are there categorical statements?
Why yes, there are.
Picaro
(2,005 posts)When I categorize the IDF and the Israeli government it is because they are part of a system which, while they commit specific atrocities, are part of a system that pursues general results.
If we go down your path in asserting every category is individual and specific then everyone and everything becomes an individual and all acts are individual and general cannot ever be imputed.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)I thought you said that youre from Missouri.
Picaro
(2,005 posts)My family goes back to the founding of Springfield MO. My great grandfather was a close personal friend of Harry Truman.
Do you think people are trees and are permanently rooted?
Or are you threatening me by noting where I live?
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)Why say youre from Missouri if you dont want people to know?
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Or targeting healthcare workers.
Care must still be taken with both the hospital and the patients.
This is an illustration of the IDF definition of "care".
[url=https://postimages.org/][img][/img][/url]
You will be hard-pressed to find Geneva authorizing actions that result in mass graves of patients and civilians in hospital court yards, babies left behind to die in pediatric wards by a "forgetful" military or a disabled man in a wheelchair attacked by military dogs just for kicks.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c511k1nqx81o
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)And Geneva does not except hospitals that are in violation of Geneva conventions from being targeted.
And Geneva places responsibility for the treatment of any protected people on the party "in whose hands" they happen to be.
You are ignoring all of the above. For once, acknowledge Hamas' guilt in the horrors you so consistently ascribe to Israel.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)In addition to using it as a pretext for the systematic destruction of an entire health-care system with the goal of advancing an ethnic cleansing agenda.
You won't find that in Geneva either.
For once, will you admit to the much bigger picture?
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)Last edited Mon May 26, 2025, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)
Either as a war crime, or as a crime against humanity. But it does allow harboring top belligerent commanders to be used as pretext for targeting a hospital.
I DID find it in Geneva. But obviously you won't, and it is not because it is not there to be found. It is because you are preoccupied with finding things that are not there, like "going hog-wild in an orgy of destruction".
And I just challenged you to look at the big picture. You don't appear to be interested, so don't demand of me what you have never considered to do yourself.
I think I told you this Confucius story before:
A prince hired Confucius to be his advisor. The first question he asked Confucius was "How can I find honest people to advise me?"
Confucius responded without hesitation: "Be honest yourself".
The tale doesn't say whether Confucius kept his new job.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)... is allowed or can be rationalized by any clause in Geneva... best of luck to you. You've missed the entire point of the Geneva Conventions.
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)They set equal rules for everybody, to be applied universally and not arbitrarily. You either accept them all or reject them all, as written. You don't get to pick.
What you believe is irrelevant.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)The poor woman walked/ran 3 miles home from the hospital after hearing her house was hit, as she had no transport.
So no, it wasn't the hospital grounds as you surely already knew.
If you can't put yourself in her shoes and imagine the horror, maybe it's time to sit down and try not saying anything at all.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)on Hamdi Al-Najjar?
Interesting.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)This most recent strike was on the command center hidden underground in the vicinity of Nasser Hospital.
It was reported that Palestinian *journalist* Hassan Aslih (who live streamed his October 7 murder spree) was killed in the strike.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Last edited Mon May 26, 2025, 02:39 PM - Edit history (1)
The house where the nine siblings were killed so heartlessly?
Shameless obfuscation and distraction from a horrific crime.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Umm... really?
Have no clue what you are talking about! If you do, please elucidate.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)were hit versus what you claimed was a targeted AI strike on Hamdi Al-Najjar.
Folks need to keep track of what they write.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Please point to the post. My post.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)
riversedge
(75,861 posts)Such pain and loss... inflicted knowingly and not caring.. it is pure evil.
The magnitude of this woman's loss is what has made people sit up and take notice. Yet this has been happening thousands of times to other mothers. Children too, now orphaned and lost. None of it should have happened. And it still goes on..
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)whatever hellhole autocracy that will have them to spirit them to safety. Wasn't the coward Sinwar trying to negotiate for personal safe passage when he was eliminated?
Meanwhile, the people of Gaza continue to risk their lives to tell the world exactly what Hamas has done and is doing to them, and so many are too busy waging a public relations war to listen.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)Israel is evil and the country needs to do the honorable thing and dissolve immediately so the Hamas freedom fighters can win the war they started.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)But aside from that - these children were just family.
There is no indication that the parents were anything but doctors. Even Israel has not made that claim. Of course it's not going to admit it is targeting doctors at home with their children...
But let's pretend they were Hamas terrorists.That raises another ethical question, at least for me. Suppose Hamas had the capability to bomb an IDF commander or soldier and chose to do so at the precise moment they just got home, ensuring their families were killed too. Would you see a "problem" then? Would you then label the family as "human shields" or dismiss them as "collateral damage"?
Your statement doesn't advance the discussion. We are talking about a horrific crime leading to unbearable grief and the loss of nine young lives.
AZLD4Candidate
(6,647 posts)But when my people die, most just yawn.
Same story for 1500 years.
Richard D
(9,878 posts)That so many people want to believe,
https://honestreporting.com/misleading-photos-raise-questions-about-gazan-doctor-who-lost-nine-children-in-israeli-strike/
Richard D
(9,878 posts)AloeVera
(2,903 posts)You want to change the subject from that.
You can't and I find it appalling.
Richard D
(9,878 posts). . . Hamas. I don't trust them to say anything that is true. Like the 44,000 children who would starve in 48 hours. A total fabrication.
That is appalling. Believing lies, more than that, wanting to believe the lies, is appalling. Did they really die? The story is suspicious as hell. So are the obviously fake photos.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Why would you do that? No answer needed. You could ask yourself that.
These children have names. They had life and families. You are dishonouring their lives and memories, and the grief of their families. For the sake of your narrative. Truly, truly appalling.
Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)UN lying about 14,000 children dying in 48 hours? No comment...
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Richard D
(9,878 posts)To not weep.
Richard D
(9,878 posts)
From Facebook
So listen, the media reported a few days ago that Israel killed 9 kids, all children of a Dr. in Gaza.
From the first second, I knew this sounded off. (You dont have to be a rocket scientist. Look at this ridiculous, obviously fake picture!)
My inbox is full of people asking me if its true. I waited to see the information from a reliable source.
And here it is. Basically, fake news. I know, shocker!
Preliminary findings of Khan Yunis strike:
The IDF says the strike targeted four terrorists and was conducted according to protocol.
There is no verified evidence that 9 children were killed, and the photos circulated appear to be fake.
The area had been fully evacuated of civilians, and the IDF says the strike would not have taken place if civilians were known to be present.
This is has been the shared photo of the Gaza Dr. And her children.
Youd think by now, theyd be a lot better at AI generated images. Nine kids, all the same age. Not one is burned.
Yea, ok. These people are so sick. What wont they do to vilify Israel? The answer? Nothing. Theyve proven that. Just disgusting.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)What kind of father uses his own children as human shields?
Richard D
(9,878 posts). . . well, if it is true that the children were real and killed and not a propaganda ploy, not a father in any sense of the word other than as a genetic donor who doesn't give a damn about his progeny. I'm still in doubt that it really happened, though. I've seen multiple videos of parents in Gaza singing the praises of making their children into jihadis and martyrs, and that they would love nothing more than their children to sacrifice their lives (are sacrificed) for the cause.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)I am with you, however. I don't think the story is real, but even if it were, it's the story of a father using his own children as human shields.
Violet_Crumble
(36,294 posts)The father was a doctor at another hospital.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)https://archive.ph/sl310#selection-2395.0-2395.128
========================================
It's disgusting that Hamas militants use their own children as human shields. It's a pattern.
The Aljamal family was widely respected in Gazas Nuseirat camp. They were known as pious and prominent members of the community. While people knew they had connections to Hamas, neighbors say no one could have guessed how deep those links truly went.
snip------------------------------
In the aftermath of last months rescue, neighbors in Nuseirat, a refugee camp in central Gaza, told CNN they were shocked to learn that Ahmed Aljamal, a physician, and his family had kept hostages in their midst. Had we known, had he told us, we would have taken safety precautions, hide or move to somewhere else, one neighbor, Abu Muhammad El Tahrawi, said.
Dr. Aljamal, 74, was a general practitioner and also led the call to prayer at the local mosque, waking early every day to get there before dawn. Dr. Aljamals son Abdallah, 36, was a freelance journalist who most recently wrote for the US-based Palestine Chronicle, for which he filed regular dispatches on the war in Gaza.
Neighbors told CNN it was no secret that the family had links to Hamas. We were worried about the Aljamal house. They are with Hamas, said a neighbor and family acquaintance.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/19/middleeast/gaza-neighborhood-israeli-hostages-intl-cmd
Violet_Crumble
(36,294 posts)It doesn't even mention the father because the 972mag article was from last year and the family was killed only in the last week or so. The article you posted is about a different doctor and was from last year as well.
You claimed 'According to the article posted by the OP, it was a targeted strike on the father, a Hamas militant terrorist.' It appears you've added yr opinion onto it, which I've bolded. What information do you have that Hamdi al-Najjar was a Hamas militant terrorist? I'd like to see what sources yr using for that claim...
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)It would probably save a lot of lives if Hamas terrorists stopped hiding behind woman, children, and neighbors, and stationed themselves in tunnels a safe distance from civilian infrastructure.
Violet_Crumble
(36,294 posts)Again, I'll ask where yr getting yr information claiming that the father was a terrorist. Right now all I'm seeing is assumptions.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)Besides, we've already seen an instance of a terrorist doctor and his "journalist" son using their own children and grandchildren as human shields and getting them killed.
Violet_Crumble
(36,294 posts)Gotcha. It's yr opinion that father was a terrorist. That wasn't how you presented it in yr earlier post. I've got no time for those who blur the lines so that innocent civilians are labelled terrorists.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)And I knew that Israel developed and uses the "Where's Daddy?" AI program which reflects that society's total callousness and disregard for civilian and children's lives. Even the name reflects a very disturbing - sociopathic, even - outlook on Palestinian families. "Daddy's home!" Explosion! Oh so funny! THERE IS DADDY!
Truly

This was a targeting of a doctor or both doctors. Did you not know that Doctor's and medical workers are targeted, their homes bombed and families killed along with them? Around 1,400 health care workers have been targeted and murdered. PLUS many of their families.
Further, as another +972 article described, Israel uses another AI program called Lavender which creates an "assassination factory" as the article calls it. It is responsible for the awful death toll by having expanded the definition of "targets" to include civic workers, police, civil defense, and a plethora of professions such as doctors and health workers, or anyone with an even tangential association with the GOVERNMENT OF GAZA. It is a licence to kill.
https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/
I believe you already know all this.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)Just ask the journalists not employed by the Hamas Ministry of Information.
New York, May 15, 2025When Gazan journalist Tawfiq Abu Jarad received a phone call from a Hamas security agent warning him not to cover a protest, he readily complied, having been assaulted by Hamas-affiliated forces once before.
The April 27 womens anti-war demonstration in northern Gazas Beit Lahia was small but significant one of several recent protests criticizing Hamas, which has controlled Gaza with an iron fist since ousting its political rival Fatah in 2007. Designated a terrorist organization by many Western governments, Hamas is known for violently targeting and killing its critics.
They even told me that I would be responsible if my wife participated in the demonstration, said Abu Jarad, a 44-year-old correspondent for Ramallah-based privately owned Sawt al-Hurriya radio station. I have not covered any recent demonstrations, he concluded, recalling how he was beaten and interrogated for hours by Hamas-affiliated masked assailants in the southern city of Rafah in November 2023, accusing him of covering events in the Gaza Strip calling for a coup. He only secured his freedom with a promise to stop reporting.
Another journalist told The Washington Post they feared covering highly unusual demonstrations in March 2025 would lead Hamas to accuse them of spying for Israel. A third said Hamas internal security agents sometimes followed journalists as they reported. Both spoke on the condition of anonymity.
https://cpj.org/2025/05/gaza-journalists-speak-out-about-hamas-intimidation-threats-assaults/



AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Your reply has nothing to do with what I said. But I'll play one last time.
Whatever Hamas has done, or how it cracks down on journalists reporting dissent, does not absolve Israel of the cruel war crimes I was describing.
It's also wrong to say "Gaza is full of terrorists" . It is exactly what Israel's far-right says to justify turning Gaza into a Death Camp.
Though it is funny to cite the intimidation of journalists by Hamas as evidence Gaza is "full of terrorists". If that qualifies as terrorism, then Israel is the King of Terror as it has actuallt KILLED 159 Palestinian journalists since 2023. Check your own source...
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Just saw these last few comments....
Unbelievable. Typical.
I won't even bother....
And thanks for raising the Alex Jones analogy. I'll add frightening and disgusting to that...
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)So why do you respond to an o/p describing the killing of children with an assertion that it is likely a lie?
That is... I won't say what I think.
I am not engaging further.
NoRethugFriends
(3,359 posts)Beastly Boy
(12,558 posts)Regardless of children being killed, or how many children may have been killed, or under what circumstances they may have been killed, or where they may have been killed, or when they may have been killed.
Now tell me how disgusted you are with me for objecting to the lies that exploit the dead children in Gaza.
Duncanpup
(14,562 posts)We subsidize Israels war crimes.
lapucelle
(20,250 posts)
Goddessartist
(2,115 posts)As are some responses to this horror.
Free Palestine!
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Enough heartbreak as it is without enduring it here too.
Hijacking a thread to distract from a very horrific war-crime...even some absurd innuendos, smears and put-downs that get personal...not the first time...I guess when neither facts nor laws and morality are on your side, and all you have are the same old (wrong)talking points and misrepresentations of what was or wasn't said - and when that doesn't work...
It's not just heartbreaking but toxic.
So I've freed myself. Free at last, what I wish for Palestinians!!
Mahalo my friend.
Some responses on this thread are just shameful
How some of you can call yourselves Democrats is beyond me , you sound more like
Likudnicks to me .......thus :
Frantically Dodging Piers Morgan's Questions, Israel's U.K. Envoy Exposed How Indefensible the Gaza War Has Become
Seemingly forgetting that Morgan once strongly supported Israel, U.K. ambassador Tzipi Hotovely deflected his simple questions with blatant whataboutism, failing to coherently address concerns about Israel's far-right genocidal intent in Gaza
Just when it seemed we had hit rock bottom and couldn't sink any lower, there was a knock from below and Israel's ambassador to the U.K., Tzipi Hotovely, appeared overseas.
The envoy, a former right-wing Likud minister, inexplicably decided that this was a good time to be interviewed, with the world recoiling from the Israeli government's far-right, bloodthirsty policies and the IDF's actions in Gaza, by the sharp and relentless Piers Morgan.
What followed was nothing short of a live public diplomacy disaster. For nearly an hour, Morgan clung to a straightforward question that Hotovely kept dodging: "How is it that you know exactly how many Hamas terrorists were killed but have absolutely no idea how many children have been killed in the process?"
"I simply ask you why," Morgan pressed repeatedly for an answer.
It was clear he understood she would not give one. At one point, Hotovely claimed Israel maintains a low civilian-to-combatant kill ratio, but Morgan challenged her: if she doesn't know how many children have been killed, how could she possibly make that calculation? His point was clear: the refusal to answer reveals the political and military leadership's disregard for Palestinian civilians, whom they don't even count.
"Ask the people who can give you the answer, I don't have it," she finally concluded.
"You're the Israeli ambassador to my country who else should I ask?!" he shot back.
Even those who skipped the full interview on Piers Morgan Uncensored and saw only short clips, like those aired on Israel's Channel 12 or on social media, could see just how severe another blow to Israel's global image was.
Instead of recognizing that much of the world now views Israel as sending the strongest army in the Middle East to carry out what could be considered a genocide, and preparing accordingly for an interview with Britain's top broadcaster, Hotovely sounded as if she had taken advice from backbencher far-right Israeli MKs.
At the start of the conversation, Morgan, armed with detailed knowledge, threw facts in her face. Every Israeli journalist should study their command of the profession as they grilled her on why, after more than a year and a half, Israel hasn't won the war or achieved its objectives, concluding that Israel's strategy has failed. "How many more children will you kill?" he asked, horrified.
"Piers, Israel doesn't kill children Hamas uses them as human shields," she replied.
"You're killing children every day!" he snapped, as if she'd forgotten this wasn't an interview with soft Israeli anchors like Amalya Duek or Ofer Haddad on Channel 12 whose show, just the night before, focused on former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's "defamation campaign abroad," after he alleged Israel is carrying out war crimes in Gaza.
"Answer my question," Morgan declared angrily, after she tried to deflect once again. "The truth is, yes you're killing a lot of children. It's horrifying. These are war crimes what else would you call them?" In her eyes, it was all Hamas propaganda not, say, the painful truth visible to anyone not willfully blind.
"Piers, you don't care about Israeli children," she tried, playing the panic card and evoking fears of another October 7, while Europe still mourns the recent killing of nine children under the age of 18 from one grieving family in Gaza, the children of two doctors.
Throughout the interview, Morgan referenced statements from former Israeli prime ministers and generals including Olmert, Ehud Barak, and Yair Golan pointing out that they are not Islamist radicals but Israeli patriots. Not so for Hotovely, who served the government's narrative of destruction and insisted that their criticism was unpatriotic. In her view, everyone must justify Israel's actions as part of a "war for existence."
The ambassador inexplicably not recalled under the previous unity government led by centrist Yair Lapid seemed to forget that Morgan was once one of Israel's strongest vocal supporters. From the start of the war, he affirmed Israel's right to self-defense. Even now, he continues to distinguish between the country and its current government's policy. He explained that he's long asked what a proportionate Israeli response would look like and concluded in recent weeks that what's happening, especially with the ongoing blockade of aid to Gaza, is grossly disproportionate.
Hotovely, facing a host who isn't taken in by spin or manipulation, claimed that far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has no influence on government policy. But Morgan saw straight through her. He's made it perfectly clear what "the real plan is which is to get all the Palestinians out of Gaza, that's a form of genocide" what else would you call it?
Instead of salvaging Israel's image even slightly, Hotovely continued down her disastrous path, even asserting that under international law, "it's allowed to attack hospitals." It was a tragic scene: Hotovely floundering under Morgan's determined questioning, in stark contrast to the deferential treatment she receives from Israeli media.
The climax came when Morgan burst out in disgust: "Are you playing whataboutary?" after she bizarrely brought up historical examples. "Piers, how many Japanese children were killed under American attacks? How many German children were killed under U.K. attacks in World War II?"
If right-wing political pundit Amit Segal, the godfather of Israeli whataboutery, had been sitting across from Piers Morgan, it's likely he would've dismantled the pundit's arguments in seconds. Morgan would have given viewers a rare, masterclass-level media showdown worth every shekel and pound.
But where is Piers Morgan, and where is someone like Israeli reporter Moran Azulay, who this week "interviewed" Likud Minister Shlomo Karhi on the Knesset Channel? Instead of challenging him or confronting his dangerous rhetoric, she handed him a wide-open platform to spew incitement. Rather than correcting his misleading claims about Golan, leader of the center-left Democrats party, or scrutinizing his destructive actions against the Israeli media, Azulay "challenged" the far-right minister by asking who he'd like to have coffee with and who in the Knesset he no longer speaks to. Pulitzer-worthy stuff, no doubt.
Source : Haaretz
Link : https://archive.md/S1zpv
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)When you've lost Piers Morgan... And once Piers turns on a dishonest person like this Ambassador, they are in for a world of hurt.
I am sorry to say that Ambassador is absolutely horrendous.
Amit Segal - Netanyahu's "mouthpiece" - has some viewpoints and rationalizations I've seen repeated here... Sigh.
I don't know what the deal is with defending Netanyahu's war crimes. Not even the death of nine siblings raised even a whiff of condemnation in that quarter, only the same old justifications and crap directed at the messenger. Always the same. Not interested in that anymore.
Did you see that now thousands of reservists are refusing to serve or are speaking out about the war - not wanting to commit war crimes? I am so glad to see that. May the tide turn in Israel against this horrible war and somehow may Netanyahu's ouster come to pass.
Edited to add:
The soldiers' refusal and opposition is even making the news in the MSM in the U.S. Surprising, but good!
https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-war-soldiers-opposition-strikes-military-operations-rcna209053
Israeli
(4,378 posts)"" Did you see that now thousands of reservists are refusing to serve or are speaking out about the war - not wanting to commit war crimes? I am so glad to see that. May the tide turn in Israel against this horrible war and somehow may Netanyahu's ouster come to pass. ""
of course I know about it , there are protests all across the country against the war for some time now.... not just those
for the hostages , recently they are combining .
Doubt you will read much about it in the english media but here are a few links ...
http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/events/1745502975
https://www.standing-together.org/en
https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2025-05-18/refusal-strikes-and-protests-can-help-stop-war
The wave of refusal, which left-wing magazine 972 has called the Israeli armys biggest refusal crisis in decades, reflects an ongoing shift in mainstream discourse. Even former military and security establishment officials have been speaking out and calling on soldiers to refuse orders. Speaking from the platform of an anti-war demonstration in Tel Aviv on 24 April, a former IDF colonel said: No-one is off the hook. If you are sent to do wrong, youre still responsible, even if its an order. A pilot sent to bomb a 10-story building because a logistics officer from Hamas lives with his family on the seventh floor should say, No, I wont do it. I wont take part in war crimes. The responsibility is on me, because Im not just following orders.
An intelligence officer asked to approve a target that will hurt dozens of civilians because an AI programme says the suspect once stood near someone maybe tied to Hamas, she should say no. A soldier ordered to shoot at medical workers and then bury them should say, No, I wont shoot. This is on me, because I am not a tool for wrongdoing. A soldier in the West Bank entering a village where settlers are attacking Palestinians whose commanders tell her to arrest the Palestinians, not the settlers, should say no.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)And of course you should say no to bombing a 10-story building because a Hamas logistics officer lives on the 7th floor with his family. That it is debatable is shocking to me. But glad to see it being raised and questioned. The protests are very encouraging.
Of course you would know more than me or the North Anerican press about the pulse of Israel. Pretty unthinking of me to phrase it as a question. You probably had a bemused chuckle about that, and I deserved it!
Be well, stay safe and thank you for the support in this awful thread.
Israeli
(4,378 posts)the international media were allowed into Gaza and/or our media was not so
heavily censored .
REF : https://www.972mag.com/israeli-military-censor-media-2024/
Agreed , its an awful thread , everyone on it should read this in full :
Unable to Justify Their Army Killing Children in Gaza, Israelis Retreat Into Deep Denial
Israeli mainstream media has amplified doubts about the IDF strike that killed nine siblings in Gaza. It reflects a public eager for news that denies the bitter truth, as no Israeli or foreign journalists are allowed into Gaza to cover it
Nir Hasson
May 27, 2025
Israel's mainstream media has, over the past few days, found airtime to cover the nine young al-Najjar siblings killed in their family's Gaza home last Friday during an IDF attack.
But on Monday morning, one headline declared, "Web surfers reveal: The picture of the dead children isn't up-to-date." Another media outlet quoted an anonymous army source who asserted that "it cannot be determined that the children of the doctor in Gaza were killed in an IDF attack."
The tangle of fake news can best be unraveled by stating the facts: Nine siblings Yahya, Rakan, Raslan, Gebran, Eve, Rival, Sayden, Luqman and Sidra were, in fact, killed in their Khan Yunis home on Friday. The Israel Defense Forces told Haaretz that on the day of the attack, it was operating in the area.
Nasser Hospital, where the parents Hamdi and Alaa al-Najjar work as doctors, issued a statement Saturday. The incident was verified by the British Sky News network, which interviewed two British doctors at the hospital.
Afterwards, further details were provided by the dead children's uncle. A Gaza rescue organization released gruesome footage of the seven small bodies, burned and torn to pieces, being recovered. The other two children are apparently buried under rubble. Major media outlets published photos of the family and the bodies a few hours after the incident.
Layers of fake news were quickly appended to the hard facts. For example, photos created with artificial intelligence of the mother with the bodies of her children were distributed. Photos of children from other families, alleged to be the children who were killed, were also circulated. These included a photo of seven children sitting and drinking juice from plastic cups, which was said to be of the al-Najjar siblings, when, in fact, it showed another family the Abu Daka family.
The picture of those children had been circulated in mid-March after five of them Omar, Muhammad, Hala, Sama and Qusai were killed the night Israel first violated the cease-fire. That night, about 300 Palestinian women and children were killed in a series of bombings in the Gaza Strip. Perhaps the mainstream and social media should be forgiven so many children and so many families have been killed, it is hard to keep all the facts straight.
Last week, the Gaza Health Ministry published the names of 16,506 children killed since the war began in October 2023. Three weeks ago, it announced that 2,200 Gazan families had been struck from the population register because all their members had been killed.
The Israeli media some of which published the erroneous images has been celebrating the doubts that have surfaced about the event. Instead of apologizing, they have circulated misleading images and published reports aimed at undermining the veracity of the incident. A major Israeli media outlet used a photo of the Abu Daka family to "ask questions" that is, to cast doubt on what actually happened that day.
Public relations people call this "merchandising doubt," but in Israeli discourse, it's just, "I'm just asking a question." A similar practice has been employed with the Rabin assassination, the "flat earth" theory, and Deep State conspiracies. Merchandising doubt is easy and effective because it allows one to challenge reality without denying it.
However, the media does not only represent itself it reflects the public mood. Its coverage doesn't fall on deaf ears. The Israeli public is seeking news that denies the bitter truth.
Lies, exaggerations and fake news have dominated Israeli discourse since October 7. To this day, millions of Israelis still believe that on that day, terrorists beheaded a baby, hung a child on a clothesline, put a baby in an oven, and removed a fetus from a pregnant woman. All of these stories have been debunked countless times, but are still regarded as factual.
The fake news, of course, doesn't stop there. The Israeli mainstream is obsessed with the "Pallywood" conspiracy a mashup of the words Palestine and Hollywood which claims that the horror videos coming out of Gaza are staged. Needless to say, there is no proof for the theory.
In defense of the Israeli media, it must be acknowledged that it is difficult to cover the war in Gaza. Journalists have to write about it remotely, without access to the war zone and without the ability to hear the voices and see the sights with their own eyes. The fact that the residents of Gaza live in fear under Hamas' reign of terror, hungry and without shelter, while exposed to severe bombings, makes the work of the journalist seeking the truth even more difficult.
Add to this the difficulties of communication in the Gaza Strip, as well as the fact that the IDF prohibits foreign journalists from entering its territory. All of this is happening at a time when AI is growing more sophisticated at an exponential rate. It is increasingly difficult to distinguish between real and fabricated images.
But all these limitations cannot excuse the media for preferring negligence and flattery over professionalism. Instead of dealing with the matter itself the terrible disaster, the war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in our name and with our hands the media throws unanswered questions up in the air.
Denying atrocities committed in our name is not unique to Israelis. Many Palestinians deny the horrors of October 7 to this day and believe that most of those killed were hit by IDF fire and that Hamas didn't kill civilians, only soldiers. Dr. Assaf David, of the Forum for Regional Thinking and the Van Leer Institute, sees the similarity between the two societies in this as a source of comfort.
"Denying the atrocities that your side has committed is an attempt to maintain your humanity," he explains. "When you say, 'There are things that my side cannot do,' it is actually a statement saying that I cannot justify these things. It's true that it's a lie and that we do do these things, but denial is trying to set a moral standard."
Israelis try to distance themselves from the atrocity through denial, instead of distancing themselves from the reality. We must tell the truth so that the atrocities stop. It is up to us.
Source : Haaretz
Link : https://archive.md/clVQ8#selection-1325.0-1325.188
Violet_Crumble
(36,294 posts)I just read some stuff denying the family died. There's some Alex Jones and Sandy Hook vibes going on.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)Next we'll find out there are no Palestinians, never were. Actually, come to think of it, that's already been tried!
Violet_Crumble
(36,294 posts)It's not often at all that I find common ground with Piers Morgan, but even he's had enough of the ugly bullshit coming from the Israel Is Always Right brigade.
During a debate on Piers Morgan Uncensored, lawyer Natasha Hausdorff argued that it couldnt be further from the fact to say that Israel is targeting children. When Morgan brought up the al-Najjar family, Hausdorff claimed the reporting was largely based on hearsay. A stunned Morgan then pressed Hausdorff:
MORGAN: Wait a minute, you dont believe that those children were killed?
HAUSDORFF: I have seen conflicting accounts and I want that story to be properly investigated
MORGAN: Wow.
HAUSDORFF: before the international media runs with it.
MORGAN: You think those two parents one of whom, I think, operated on one of the children you think that those two doctors, the parents, they just made it up
HAUSDORFF: Why are those children there?
MORGAN: that nine of their 10 children had been blown to pieces by an Israeli air strike?
HAUSDORFF: If this is true
MORGAN: You dont believe it?
HAUSDORFF: Why on earth was artificially-generated imagery used to promote this story when it first happened? Weve seen time and time again
MORGAN: I gotta say, I think what youve just said about that family is despicable. Im sorry. Its despicable.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/piers-morgan-lays-into-pro-israel-lawyer-denying-killing-of-nine-children-in-gaza-what-you-ve-just-said-is-despicable/ar-AA1G23X7?ocid=BingNewsSerp
I'll add revolting, hateful, and disgusting to Morgan's despicable. People who are peddling that ugly shit are no better than those who denied what happened on October 7.
AloeVera
(2,903 posts)It is their home! Or was.
This woman tried to insinuate that the children were "human shields". That's where her question was going. I wish Piers had not cut her off but let her expose once and for all the Big Lie of the mythical human shields. That they were not "human shields" but children, wives, aunts, uncles, grandparents, neighbours. And that they were simply at home.
That Big Lie burned my a** since the beginning and I argued it in vain. At that time there were what seemed like hundreds of pro-Israel members, all having a go at me. Why it bothered me so much was that I knew that acceptance of that hasbara lie would lead to the destruction of Gaza, and then the ethnic cleansing made inevitable by it. Lo and behold...
I despised Piers Morgan's coverage of Gaza. It was so sycophantic to Israel, lacking in independent critical thought, at least in the beginning of. So I say that when you've lost Piers Morgan...
Happily he did the same thing to Israel's Ambassador to the UN recently. He was hopping mad and she deserved every minute of it. She is a piece of work too.
Picaro
(2,005 posts)Or perhaps simply crimes against humanity.
The Israeli government and the Israeli Defense Forces have been conducting a brutal war of extermination against a largely innocent civilian population since the Hamas attacks on October 17th.
Hamas is using the population of Gaza as human shields. The Israeli government is taking advantage and is killing without restraint.
This is genocide.