Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumA Miscarriage of Journalism at 'The New York Times'
personally, i take most everything published about gaza w a big grain of salt. imho, oct 7 was part of a plan to defeat joe biden. the protests that broke out looked orchestrated to me from the jump. it is a fact that qatar has poured million into u.s. universities, leading to hiring of many profs sympathetic, to say the least, to the palestinian cause. oct 7 was the start of their sleeper cell activation.
i think the kristoff opinion piece was sloppy journalism that even the now quite corrupt nyt wd not have published in its news section.
they have had to walk back quite a few things, esp their use of kids w degenerative diseases as famine victims. if the famine was so bad, shouldnt they have had their pick of hundreds of emaciated kids to choose from?
i cd go on, but
anyway, here is a point by point refutation of what i believe is flat out libel.
https://www.thefp.com/p/the-new-york-times-miscarriage-of-journalism?utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawR4J-tleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFCSFoyOVdrZTk1bjZ5UGZ2c3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHo0mNGgWkFRW0nIgndZaG5Zinshxkj44ftbsMFmaxLS70knggg-rOinpQ3V7_aem_14QHlOjYnwHuUVpce9y-kw
AloeVera
(4,402 posts)Uh huh.
Such irony.
People who read that rag or only Israeli sources will fall for all kinds of CT and also refuse to believe a word said by Palestinians. I would advise such people to maybe broaden their horizons.
mopinko
(73,928 posts)the palestian pov gets plenty of play here. i mostly get the other side of the story from ppl i follow on fb. i do my best to track that stuff back to as reliable a source as i can find.
and like i said- i DO take it all w a grain of salt.
AloeVera
(4,402 posts)We got plenty from the other side for 2 years. In the end, as I always say, truth will out. We all want the unvarnished truth I imagine. You can't get there by limiting your sources to fit confirmation bias. I read Israeli papers of all stripes. Not just the rare ones like Ha'aretz or +972 Mag that are left or don't tow the right-wing Israeli government's hard line. Facebook's algorhythm will direct you to extreme pro-Israel content while censoring Palestinian voices. It's much the same on all social media now. What freedom of expression?
Palestinian childten were starving. Period. How do I know this with certainty? I tracked very closely the number of aid trucks allowed in. (Not just food but medicine and shelter etc were obstructed). It was a fraction of pre-war levels. I watched in horror as Israel's barbaric siege tightened ever more brutally and fumed ad it came up wirh more illogical and absurd "explanations". As people risked their very LIVES to score just one bag of flour to feed their kids. Flour. Imagine. I can't recall how many exactly were shot and KILLED by the IDF for that precious bag of flour. I believe its upwards of 2,000. Imagine.
The focus on the pictures is so like Israel and its PR tactics. Casting doubt, shooting the messenger, smearing Palestinian sources and voice, honing in on ONE irrelevant detail to discredit the entire picture ezc. I beieve the word here is gaslighting. It all worked or there would not be 50,000 dead women and children in Gaza today.
And the truth? Gets ignored or trampled. Those kids were publicized because they were the canary in the coalmine. The disabled, sick, weak with pre-existing conditions and no access to medicine will show the signs of starvation first. Succumb first. But Israel's defenders could not or would not admit to that and instead worked to undermine the legitimate claims of starvation, thus enabling it while denying it. I have a few choice words for that.
157 children have been recorded as having died from starvation or acute malnutrition as of December 2025. Hundreds more adults. UNICEF and Save the Children say the number is likely higher mainly because people who died at "home" in their tents without making it to hospital are not counted. Given that Gaza's hospitals were destroyed to the point only a few were even semi-functional, I fear the human suffering due to the deprivation of food by Israel was more immense than we know.
My point is if you only focus on "pictures" without understanding what you are seeing and why, and not knowing the real facts and reality as reported by many aid agencies on the ground - and listening to or reading only one side - you are susceptible to Israel's tactics to obstruct the truth and carry on its wars and genocide. There is a high cost to that for real people.
mopinko
(73,928 posts)i only see 1 side here, fersher.
AloeVera
(4,402 posts)The last 2.5 years.
But if those things have failed me as you suggest, my apologies. Glad to be wrong here, if that is indeed the case.
Is there another side to imposed, deliberate starvation of children? I'm not sure I want to hear it but please go ahead.
Or are you referring to the dearth of responses from the side my reading comprehension tells me you are on? I suspect there is hesitation to engage with Bari Weiss' rape denialism. I could be wrong in that too so perhaps just give it time!
mopinko
(73,928 posts)i do know that the propaganda machine of hamas and iran is sophisticated and well funded.
for every accusation u level here, i have read refutations and qualifications that i do not have at my fingertips. so i cant cite sources, etc. but here r some things i believe to b true-
aid to gaza has been routinely hijacked by hamas and sold on the black market or diverted to their fighters. just as they have been hijacking international aid for yrs to buy weapons and build their infrastructure. (and loot it, outright, and stash it in other countries, like qatar.) this is a big reason y convoys get held up. aid has often piled up, trying to organize security. if they cared about their ppl, this wd not happen.
i also believe that hamas cd have sheltered civilians in their tunnels during bombing, but never did. ditto food stores that they have there and elsewhere.
but above all, if leaders in gaza had been focused on their ppl instead of their enemies, they wouldnt need the aid they depend on now. theyd have infrastructure to feed their ppl. when israel pulled out completely in 05, they tore down greenhouses that were left behind.
yes, hamas uses hospitals and schools as military installations. iirc, this violates the geneva convention.
i have read and believe that israel takes pains to prevent civilian casualties, including dropping leaflets, sending text msgs, and evacuations. i have seen numbers that they have had much success. again, i dont have them at my fingertips.
i believe hamas casualty figures r deceitful. they count natural deaths as war dead. they count fighters as civilians, esp young men, who they count as children.
and above all, i think it is very much arguable that this is a genocide. that has a specific definition, and ppl of good faith can and do argue about whether it is or isnt. i, personally, do not think it meets the definition.
what does meet it, tho, r massacres happening in many other parts of the world that get little or no attention in the media cuz there r no jews to blame.
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