Yes. It's the exact same thing.

I think - just little old me . . . that Gaza gave a lot of people who hate Jewish People a reason to attack Jewish people in general and around the world.

Those folks will trip all over themselves to deny the right for a Jewish person to exist - let alone a Jewish state.

propaganda against Israel being a Jewish State, which is how it was formed by the UN.

It was formed as part of a two-state solution from the British Mandate. A Jewish State, and an Arab State.

There are certain groups that do not believe Israel should exist as a Jewish State, which is the same thing as saying they don't believe Israel should exist.

It is interesting how words can be manipulated to hide true intentions.

They aren't hiding from me.

I can hear a dog whistle from a thousand miles away.

Last edited Wed Aug 13, 2025, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

There are even those now arguing that Jews don’t really exist.

Are they trying to 'wish it into being'.

No joke on this. I don't trust these people. I just don't.

...Jewish people within historic Israeli lands. Some now read it as an intent of a much broader and expansive construct. It seems even within the political milieu that is modern Israel, each Israeli has their own place on a very wide spectrum of the meaning of Zionism. Similarly, when people criticize or attack Zionism they may be completely against the original intent and thereby against any Jewish state or they may be against a more hegemonistic state beyond what is internationally recognized as Israel. Without greater context, just saying "Mr. XYZ is against Zionism" is widely open for debate as to true meaning and intent.

according to The World Jewish Congress.

I'm coming around to the position that focusing on "Zionism" ends up allowing for anti-zionist discourse and nothing more. Israel exists and will continue to exist. The "debate" does nothing more than facilitate antisemitism.

saying that Israel shouldn't exist as a Jewish state?

Isn't Zionism the movement that Israel should exist as a Jewish state, and isn't that the problem with those that say they are against Zionism, because they don't believe Israel should exist as a Jewish state, and isn't that is what facilitates antisemitism?

I'm as Zionist as they come. I think it's crazy that people still debate if Israel should exist. No other country in the world is treated that way.

The idea was born in Russian pogroms, a result of Russian antisemitism.
The realization being that nobody but themselves could be trusted to keep them safe.
It's usually framed around the question "should Israel exist" but that's really a secondary issue to the main point.

Zionism is best described as a national liberation movement. It's the movement for Jewish liberation from second class citizenship and oppression.

When someone says they're anti-Zionist the question i have is: You're against our liberation? Is this the only liberation movement you're against? Who else isn't eligible for liberation? And What sub-level of citizenship and humanity should Jews accept instead if not liberation?

There are plenty of countries doing terrible things but nobody says they shouldn't exist (except other countries that are trying to take them over.).

When I hear someone feels they are pro-Jewish but anti "Zionism" it means they oppose actions that, in their perception (or based on stated objectives), will crush any hope of a two-state solution; but they are good friends with their Jewish neighbors and colleagues; and vigorously oppose the violent actions of groups like Hamas.

Is that the correct differentiation? I don't know, but if I don't have any other info that is what I assume as the general outline of the person's belief relative to Israel and Jews. This is not the same as a belief that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Although it may be unrealistic to think that a peaceful two state solution could be achieved. But I think some people do hold onto that hope.

I'm not enough of an expert in this area to argue one way or the other with respect to international law, or what "should" happen. Just posing a possible answer to the question in the OP.