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erronis

(20,299 posts)
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 02:59 PM Jun 18

Earliest evidence of humans in the Americas confirmed

https://phys.org/news/2025-06-earliest-evidence-humans-americas.html
University of Arizona



. . .

Holliday and a graduate student spent several days examining geologic layers in trenches, dug by previous researchers, to piece together a timeline for the area. They had no idea that, about 100 yards away, there were footprints, preserved in ancient clay and buried under gypsum, that would help spark a wholly new theory about when humans arrived in the Americas.

Researchers from Bournemouth University in the United Kingdom and the U.S. National Park Service excavated those footprints in 2019 and published their paper in 2021. Holliday did not participate in the excavation but became a co-author after some of his 2012 data helped date the footprints.

The tracks showed human activity in the area occurred between 23,000 and 21,000 years ago—a timeline that would upend anthropologists' understanding of when cultures developed in North America. It would make the prints about 10,000 years older than remains found 90 years ago at a site near Clovis, New Mexico, which gave its name to an artifact assemblage long understood by archaeologists to represent the earliest known culture in North America.

Critics have spent the last four years questioning the 2021 findings, largely arguing that the ancient seeds and pollen in the soil used to date the footprints were unreliable markers.

Now, Holliday leads a new study that supports the 2021 findings—this time relying on ancient mud to radiocarbon date the footprints, not seeds and pollen, and an independent lab to make the analysis. The paper was published in the journal Science Advances.

Specifically, the new paper finds that the mud is between 20,700 and 22,400 years old—which correlates with the original finding that the footprints are between 21,000 and 23,000 years old. The new study now marks the third type of material—mud in addition to seeds and pollen—used to date the footprints, and by three different labs. Two separate research groups now have a total of 55 consistent radiocarbon dates.

. . .
27 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Earliest evidence of humans in the Americas confirmed (Original Post) erronis Jun 18 OP
HA! FirstLight Jun 18 #1
LOL DENVERPOPS Jun 18 #4
That's really interesting...but also not surprising... FirstLight Jun 18 #5
Don't apologize DENVERPOPS Jun 18 #11
Not an expert, but my sense is that most paid-for education is a money-making racket. erronis Jun 18 #13
Some of them are. H2O Man Jun 18 #20
Going in debt for a degree you cant use to make a livelihood just does not make any sense to me....nt mitch96 Jun 18 #23
Valid point. H2O Man Jun 18 #24
I know two degreed people who have transitioned to working in the trades.. Electrician and plumber... mitch96 Thursday #25
I of course was raised with the idea of "all out of Africa" slightlv Jun 18 #16
Uh oh. But the Bible... ananda Jun 18 #2
Very very soon, I am sure Ananda DENVERPOPS Jun 18 #12
But what about the land bridge for Asia and those humans made their way south along the Pacific and ... Botany Jun 18 #3
The peoples of polynesia were great travelers. Whether by accident or purposeful exploration. erronis Jun 18 #7
Many Native American tribes have stories about their ancestors coming by boats across the Pacific. Botany Jun 18 #8
It supports the theory that the first arrivals came by boat, sailing along the coast William Seger Jun 18 #14
I've gotta go see those. Clouds Passing Jun 18 #6
LOL, that looks exactly like my footprint. catbyte Jun 18 #9
Western PA. twodogsbarking Jun 18 #10
Interesting. One of my marriages was in that neck of the woods. (Fordyce) erronis Jun 18 #19
There was an equally ancient population in eastern Brazil Warpy Jun 18 #15
Sure puts a new point on "Open Borders" doesn't it?! slightlv Jun 18 #17
Those Prints are in White Sands NP -- Free Entrance Tomorrow for Juneteenth LeftyLucie Jun 18 #18
Damn it. Now that is buzzing round my otherwise empty cranium.... erronis Jun 18 #21
Stephen Hawking sings galaxy song cbabe Thursday #26
Fascinating. nt Exp Jun 18 #22
That footprint proves that the first REAL Amercan was an Aryan who lost his jack boots and MAGA hat. Ping Tung Thursday #27

FirstLight

(15,342 posts)
1. HA!
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 03:06 PM
Jun 18

So native Americans really are the original americans! Sounds like they ought to I don't know maybe deport Trump and his ilk LOL

There's actually a few anomalies like this around the world what comes to mind in my anthropology study that I did at University of Arizona was some strains of people in Java and far East Indonesia, possibly aboriginals and now the Americans and original natives here. This is really interesting because it could actually prove that we had evolution of humans beginning in multiple places simultaneously on the planet rather than everything coming directly out of Africa. I'm sure genetics will definitely play a part in this. It's fascinating and since we're talking about many thousands of years ago, there's still so much left to be found!

DENVERPOPS

(12,747 posts)
4. LOL
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 04:47 PM
Jun 18

Too bad THEY didn't have a "Border Patrol" isn't it........

The Native American foot is different than others.......that is a native american foot.....narrow heel, wide ball of the foot.....They also have a higher 'In Step" if that's the correct terminology. (Top of the foot at the arch, much higher than normal???)

The "form" that shoes are built on, is called a "last".......A couple of years ago, Nike? made a "last"for the Native American Foot and produced a limited quantity of athletic shoes for Native Americans.....65K? of them......

FirstLight

(15,342 posts)
5. That's really interesting...but also not surprising...
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 04:56 PM
Jun 18

Anthropology is such a fascinating subject! I am sad I had to drop out of ASU, but I couldn't justify the time spent vs the inability to find work later down the line...at 55, my time is limited to waste...

It also bugged me that ASU had some really OFF professors in the field, they had their own agendas for their topics. The last teo classes i took i dropped before midterm because they were SO far from the material in the course description... The death & Dying across cultural perspectives class ended up being focused on american funerals and we spent the first 3 weeks planning our own funeral, writing an obit etc... STUPID! The class on Native American religion/veliefs was primarily focused on ONE tribe in the Ecuadorian Amazon that this professor had lived with and there was no real references to other tribes etc...it got old real quick. That, and the fact they required 2 YEARS of a foreign language to graduate was just a money grab IMO. I was also very dissapointed when the University did nothing about the Trump Admin's attacks on Student Loans, etc...

Sorry, didn't mean to go off topic!

DENVERPOPS

(12,747 posts)
11. Don't apologize
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:32 PM
Jun 18

fascinating to know.........My niece is a college professor down there, and they love her. She not only really knows her stuff, but she is an excellent teacher...........Sadly, ffew and far between these days.........

That whole student loan debacle was a complete corrupt scam........what a crock. They ALL should have had their loans thrown out, not only that, but any money they paid into the loan refunded........................

erronis

(20,299 posts)
13. Not an expert, but my sense is that most paid-for education is a money-making racket.
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:37 PM
Jun 18

Give me more of that old public-funded, public school education.

"Perfessors" are frequently just folk that can't find a real job that pays. The whole "You have to have a XXX degree to be considered" is a perpetuation of the money-making scheme. Has nothing to do with abilities - as is evident.

H2O Man

(77,033 posts)
20. Some of them are.
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 06:06 PM
Jun 18

I've met a number of highly-paid, arrogant pricks over the years. Most of the younger ones seem to have a far better attitude.

I agree that human history should be taught in public schools. My fascination with "local history" began before the 1st grade, when I listened to my best friend's grandfather, the neighbor Elder. But it got kicked into a higher gear in 2nd grade, when the principal told my class a story about Mohawk Leader Joseph Brant.

I worked with Onondaga on the national graves protection & reinterment act. Some of the professionals resented that. I presented a paper on a site at the largest archaeological society meeting year's ago. A few of the pro ranks were not too happy by an amateur being invited to speak. Most ignored me. But I made friends with some, which resulted in Chief Waterman & I speaking at regional colleges and universities.

When I was in college 50+ years ago, we were taught three theories: Native Americans got here 12,000 years ago, along with 20,000 and 40,000. A pro from Hartwick College in Oneonta, NY claimed he found "proof" of flint-knapping dating 73,000 years bc. He was way off, though, as the knapping had been done by the Wisconsin glacier. But today, the school has very progressive staff.

Those foot prints are fascinating. I've read articles and watched shows that support and oppose that early date. I think it is important to keep an open mind ..... including recognizing that North America ain't the only America. I tend to think others reached South America before the glacier's melt opened up a path through the artic. That could include small groups traveling by ocean, that may or may not have been successful in maintaining life here for centuries.

mitch96

(15,289 posts)
23. Going in debt for a degree you cant use to make a livelihood just does not make any sense to me....nt
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 08:43 PM
Jun 18

mitch96

(15,289 posts)
25. I know two degreed people who have transitioned to working in the trades.. Electrician and plumber...
Thu Jun 19, 2025, 07:53 AM
Thursday

One who has a economics degree now owns his one small plumbing business. Both make over $200/k per year. The electrician chases storm related power outages.. Sees the country and makes some good money...
Another friend of mine became a Nurse. After a few years "in the trenches" she got her degree in Hosp.Administration... At the top it's pretty cutthroat but she loves it..
m

slightlv

(5,910 posts)
16. I of course was raised with the idea of "all out of Africa"
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:49 PM
Jun 18

but it just seemed to make more sense that it arose at different times all over the world... at least, to my sensibilities (which don't always jive with anyone else's!). There have been so many "anomalies" found that I felt it couldn't help but lead one to that conclusion. Anthropology and archeology were always two of my favorites subjects. Without really trying, I discovered AFTER I graduated, I was only shy 3 credits in minors in both these fields. Sure wish someone had pointed it out to me at the time! (LOL)

Botany

(74,524 posts)
3. But what about the land bridge for Asia and those humans made their way south along the Pacific and ...
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 04:42 PM
Jun 18

… from what is now North Central Alaska as the ice from the Wisconsin Glacier melted? This
6,000 years before that.

erronis

(20,299 posts)
7. The peoples of polynesia were great travelers. Whether by accident or purposeful exploration.
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:13 PM
Jun 18

It would be wonderful if they can track these footprints back to a region such as south east Asia.

Botany

(74,524 posts)
8. Many Native American tribes have stories about their ancestors coming by boats across the Pacific.
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:24 PM
Jun 18

N/t

William Seger

(11,697 posts)
14. It supports the theory that the first arrivals came by boat, sailing along the coast
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:45 PM
Jun 18

... following what is called the "kelp highway."

National Geographic: Did the First Americans Take a Ride on the Kelp Highway?

catbyte

(37,157 posts)
9. LOL, that looks exactly like my footprint.
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:29 PM
Jun 18

Finding comfortable shoes is always a hassle for me. Now I know that it's been 21000 years in the making...

erronis

(20,299 posts)
19. Interesting. One of my marriages was in that neck of the woods. (Fordyce)
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 06:06 PM
Jun 18

There is so much history that surrounds us. And so many people are totally disinterested.

That's why the science of archeology will never go extinct....

Warpy

(113,592 posts)
15. There was an equally ancient population in eastern Brazil
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:46 PM
Jun 18

They found datable rock art plus a fairly intact skull, the latter being lost when the National Museum fire some years ago destroyed.

Originally though to be West African in origin, the skull produced enough DNA to trace it to east Africa by way Melanesia and/or Australia..

How any of the pre-Beringian migration populations got here is less clear, but I'm still going to go with island hopping and chasing fish.

LeftyLucie

(43 posts)
18. Those Prints are in White Sands NP -- Free Entrance Tomorrow for Juneteenth
Wed Jun 18, 2025, 05:57 PM
Jun 18

That is just about 30 miles up the road and I was already planning a visit tomorrow. The prints are in a part of the park that requires special dispensation to visit as far as I know, but I will enjoy bicycling around the Gypsum, only supposed to be ~97F.

By the way, these prints also show evidence that they were pulling a travois of some kind.

I am no expert, but people walking around the deep SW with a date of ~23kYA seems to lend lots of credence to the kelp highway migration theory, which is not mutually exclusive to the Beringia theory by any means.

I like to look at the mountains (the Organs, et al) and think about how those folks crossing the mud so long ago saw essentially the exact same skyline that I see every day. Cue Monty Python's "Galaxy Song."

Ping Tung

(2,782 posts)
27. That footprint proves that the first REAL Amercan was an Aryan who lost his jack boots and MAGA hat.
Thu Jun 19, 2025, 12:11 PM
Thursday
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