at times, it seems.

The Economy: They are hoarding wealth, which will starve the capitalism based economy and threaten its health.
Civilization: creating massive inequality destabilizes civilizations and prevents a fully sustainable and prosperous civilization.
The Environment: The wealthy, particularly several industries, are hindering governments' ability to prevent global warming from getting worse.

I'll wait right here to see if we get answers. I had no idea I was supposed to hate the democratic party, the party that sacrificed dixiecrats so that I can vote. I came here because I love the party, warts and all. Want to have my say and be among similarly minded folks. Sad to see the anti democratic party right wing extremist trying to come in and maliciously intrude, and bother us decent democrats

both are deep into protectionism, isolationism, don't mind Trump's deportation of 12 million people merely seeking a better life, hate the Clintons, and hate certain other things too...

Sad they are willing to throw us to the wolves just because they lost

Defending the candidate of the continuation of economic privilege with a rebuttal of "blah blah privilege privilege" is a lot like defending defenders of Jim Crow with "blah blah equality equality"...except that you don't even see that you're defending the modern version of the Dixiecrats you loathe.

His reprehensible post was hidden and he now has a transparency page.

George Wallace? Wow! That was one interesting diatribe.

That is appalling.

It is anti-Semitic underground.

topic.

Probably would be a lot worse if you hadn't been on a well earned time out.

I took you off ignore because it was awesome to watch you flame out but now it is just sad. Back to ignore you go. No time for the hatred of a religious group here.

find Israel 1000x more objectionable than China, Pakistan, Sudan, Russia, Iran, etc. are Bernie supporters who think Hillary (and Bill, and even Obama) is a neocon, AIPAC "controlled," whine about Goldman Sachs but never JP Morgan or Morgan Stanley, etc. Indeed it is.

I can see why you two birds of a feather are certainly flocking together.

“The saddest reality of all is that Senator Sanders is the first Jew to win a presidential primary but very few people in the Jewish community can feel a sense of pride because of his expressions on Israel.”
Wexler went on to argue that Sanders’ comments, which centered on a claim that Israel used excessive force against Palestinians, “have given credence to some of the most anti-Israel voices in the world.”

http://forward.com/news/national/341332/will-bernie-sanders-ignite-israel-feud-at-democratic-convention/#ixzz49oxXND3D

others have also pointed out his "view," to say the least, of his background https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-jewish/

Even Greens and Socialists and Democrats.

the candidate who has affected that S-word label in the past. Talk about cold!

They're calling him another S word: sellout.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-socialists-20160525-snap-story.html

Can't wait until June 14 and the DC primary is concluded. All the anti-Dem posts will then be banned.

because the site can't just do what Daily Kos did and call it already...

It's accurate that there is a huge amount of anti-Clinton hate posted here.

It's also accurate that that will end on June 14th after the DC primary and the site will again reflect its

original intent, which is to help Democrats win, not to tear them down.

thing we're missing now is a Democrat to run for President.

You guys are so hateful, it is really unpleasent to have you back, like nails on a chalkboard. Please get with the program and support the dem over the repub- you are in a tarpit and sinking fast

acknowledge science before putting it to the bottom of the stack?

29%+/- of the total electorate says they're Democrats

Ignore the Independents at your peril. Many lean Dem. Want to be Dem.

Keep shoving purity tests to join the big tent, that's a winning move

socialism or isolationism, anti-Israelism, and protectionism, which are all Sanders offers. He only polls OK with him now bc most primary followers are politicos, whereas a lot of the electorate doesn't tune in during the primary. But year after year, those 4 things poll poorly with voters and independent ones too.

I was just about to comment on that. There's another poster with a very similar schtick who also uses British spelling.

Makes me wonder.

lulz

it's become more like D[font size=1]unningkruger[/font] Underground or D[font size=1]ogatasteeringwheel [/font]Underground. But I would never say that.

Last edited Thu May 26, 2016, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I haven't seen any signs of socialism by Bernie or his supporters. A determination to establish rule by the minority is not socialist. Socialism starts with a commitment to equality, economic and social. Bernie has built a campaign around restoring the white male bourgeois to its position atop the capitalist world order. There is no critique of capital, only of industries that profit in ways other than killing. Note he despises Verizon and Disney but insists gun corporations profits need to to be protected against the rights of mere citizens to petition in courts. He supporters the F-35 and the MIC, subsidies for big sugar, but opposes companies in the financial sector. Apparently profiting from killing, war, and obesity is acceptable, by from lending and financial services is not. Somehow I missed that part of Marx.

Ah, but we are told he is a "democratic socialist," who has decided popular elections need to be overturned in favor of corporate polls. So not much concern for democracy either.

There is nothing left about any of what we have seen recently. Without a basic commitment to equality--of any kind, whether rights, opportunity, or economic--there is no socialism. He has proclaimed that the votes of the young and independents matter more than the majority of people of color, women, the disabled, elderly, and other Democrats throughout the nation. Violence is justified because Republicans are not allowed to run the Democratic Party. I see nothing leftist, socialist, or democratic in any of that. I see only entitlement and political opportunism.

Attempting to refute actual points.

I know it's unacceptable that anyone on planet earth might not revere Bernie. Dont bother discussing his record or argument in the campaign because you can't. The fact is my points are accurate. He is inconsistent in his denunciations of corporations, and he is arguing that super delegates should make him the nominee against the electioral will of the majority because, he insists, his supporters are just more important. That is neither socialist or democratic.

personal condemnation of anyone who engages in dissent. Not bothering would have meant not replying, but you felt compelled to leave a comment making sure to communicate your contempt for me personally--since you can't engage on the subject matter.

There are two wings of the Democratic Party's base, epitomized by the CANDIDATES (not always the voters) Bernie and Hillary. To the neoliberal/mainstream Democrats, the other wing of the base are Greens & Socialists, rallying behind an actual Social Democrat, which is to them all the worse, especially with him getting some 46% of the vote this primary cycle. And don't think that the mainstream/neoliberals can count on the majority of blacks and latinos always supporting them -- the Clintons presided over unprecedented and broadly shared prosperity unlike any other period since the 60s, and are mainly for that reason widely popular as well as well known. Until about a month before Iowa in Jan 2008, Hillary Clinton was leading Barack Obama, in most polls until well into late autumn 2007 by double digits. I remember as an Obama supporter (hoping he would be a significant break from neoliberalism, even if straddling the two wings of the party) being very frustrated by this. But if Hillary became president, DON'T expect that loyalty to last like it did for Obama through his entire presidency. If large numbers of black and latino grassroots are turned off by triangulation, TPP and other similar deals (and the HUGE surprise that Hillary would only tinker modestly with these) and interventionism, in the context of less of a spectacular boom than the 90s, you could EASILY see the progressive wing become the solid majority of Democrats.

Are all the relatively progressive Democrats at the base as ideological as many on DU? Probably, as with ideological conservatism in the GOP, less so, but remember that Bernie HAS gotten 10 million votes and counting as it is.

Obviously the anti-Hillary sentiment will have to be more muted -- at least until the election, if and when she clinches the nomination and the campaign ends. But these concerns will not go away as they are very real within the Democratic Party

This is one reason that while I am happy with third party efforts like Socialist Alternative, and would like their Seattle performance repeated in dozens of major cities across America, I do NOT agree with those who would abandon the obvious advantages Bernie has shown of at least ALSO working within the Democratic Party, even as some like the OP think we are party traitors

Your words actually betray the truth quite clearly, although probably not in the manner you intended. Yes, they are good servants of the Democratic Party. It's unfortunate that they are, however, supposed to be PUBLIC servants and not servants to a 'party'.

I'm sure the distinction is likely lost, though.

your bona fides.

When the Admins created the site, it was to be an establishment site for Democrats. The "Underground" didn't mean that it was supposed to be subversive towards the Democratic Party. At that time in 2001, the GOP controlled all the levers of power and the Democrats were truly the ones out of luck.

However, as time went on it became evident that many people who post on liberal message boards were not necessarily party loyalists. Many had serious qualms with the Democratic Party, who went along with too many of the bad GOP ideas.

There just aren't enough "mainstream" and "centrist" types. I'm using your words. People who take the time to post regularly on a political discussion board tend to be proudly identify with the left. Thus terms like socialist aren't really the insult you intend them to be.

who wants to actuality help people who aren't millionaires?






.

The DNC will have to remedy this, as it could have caused us this election. I say could have, because the republicans have given us the gift of train wreck trump. Another McCain or Romney would have had a fair shot at winning in the GE. Train wreak trump can't help but flap his mouth and alienate large groups of minorities. BS is right, trump is toast, but it will be hillary that will cook him in november.

NT

in the majority here. Maybe YOU don't belong.

not Bernie.

Having given it considerable thought. I'm going with Democratic Underground because these faux Socialist's would have a shit fit if they actually lived in a Socialist Country. I see people invoke the word Socialist and I get a little chuckle.

"What do you mean I have to wait an hour to use the charging station?"

No one ever expects the Hate Squad.

but switch "rich people" with "party apparatchiks". Not to mention, the military industrial complex of the USSR, Red China, and the Eastern blocs not only were 1000x bigger and more pervasive, but they didn't even pay their workers anything close to what they do here.

And the "state unions..."

what life is actually (and is not) in a socialist country. But it's fun to consider yourself one of the annointed, one of the insiders while simultaneously looking down their noses at the unwashed masses of Democrats who fail to appreciate their superior knowledge.

...who was seeking the Democratic nomination for president.

Kucinich served in Congress as a Democrat: Bernie Sanders serves in Congress as an Independent.

But their policy positions are similar.

Most of the attacks on our nominee Hillary seem designed to help the repubs...

People disregarding facts. Responding to OPs without having checking facts, thereby showing their ignorance. Backing Republican policy. Proudly stating that they donated to a (supposed) Dem who backs Republicans and supports payday lenders. Supporting a warhawk. Supporting free trade. Supporting fracking. Supporting spying on American citizens. Supporting carelessness handling classified information. Supporting lies. Making up stories about people and events to smear opponents.

It's fucking ugly in here.

.

... years ago. Now it's an anti-HRC/anti-Dem site.

For the past year, DU has become free advertising space for GOP talking points. You can't blame the RWers for taking advantage of that reality.

And the vitriol hurled at one of the most loyal Dems, Hillary Clinton, is disgusting.

The vitriol spewed at people like John Lewis, Al Franken, Gabby Giffords, Howard Dean, Rachel Maddow, Planned Parenthood, etc., has been more than notable.

You have to wonder about a "Democratic" website where everyone who doesn't support Bernie is under-the-bus fodder.

Does Bernie have any actual Democrats in his corner? If so, they seem to be very few and far between.

Right Wing provacateurs pose as leftists to gin up leftist outrage which sucks in the more extreme elements on DU.

Just a theory, though.

... but it has great merit.

that the direction of the party may be to disavow and expel the likes of the Clintons and their supporters in the long-run for the very positions you like about them? The party has a habit of doing that to the bad Democrats in their midst...if you don't believe me, ask the Dixiecrats if you can find any.

Ronald Reagan once famously said "I didn't leave the Democratic party; the Democratic party left me." We're now fighting like mad to leave Hillary behind too. You should enjoy this likely victory...it's almost certainly the last hurrah before you're forced to choose between a "Green/Socialist Worker" Democratic party and the GOP.

I have every confidence that you'll evolve and stick around because you're not an asshole like Reagan.

Sid

So if you are really bothered about this go tell it to him and work with Bernie to get the Dem Party back to working for the people and not the corporations.

Hillary won't do that. She'll just keep toeing the corporate line. And that, my friend, is Republican policy.

.

dialog and all?

And you don't have to support HRC against Bernie to prove you ARE a Democrat.

What matters is having solidly progressive and small-d democratic values.

I mean judging from the sheer number of whiny threads you keep starting.

and making you come in here.

Capitulation and corporatism.

If this site decides to go with Clinton if she is the nominee.. I won't be visiting anymore.

stopped being underground and became Democratic establishment central in '08. The board has many more neo-liberals, and fewer left-wing members, than it did in the early years.

But thanks for your concern.

Anti-socialism is not, to my understanding, a point of unity for this site; nor is pro-socialism.

The Democratic Party is party including individuals with widely variant ideologies.

And Hillary is about the most aboveground, mainstream Democrat in the country.

They represent everything that's wrong with politics.

I will criticize them as I see fit.

Obama did not clean up the Bush messes fast enough.

And when he cleaned up any pre-existing mess, he only did so because the self proclaimed high priests of liberalism on DU forced him into it.

This is not a GREEN SITE ... and not a SOCIALIST site ... sadly ... its been a place for the disgruntled left to rotate through their various outrages ... some real ... many manufactured.

Then the new rules will return sanity to DU.

The Democratic primaries are the most controversial subject discussed on this board, in my opinion.

... from those who would disparage longtime Democratic Party servants.

For most of us, "Democrat" is more than a logo.

however, the term democrat has covered everybody from far left to centre-right. If you want to be the big tent, you need to tolerate the people you do not like.

Furthermore, we have all had a hand in helping, and all had a hand in the problem...we will need each other if we have any hope in hell of rolling back the GOP.