im done. they talk a lot but when push comes to shove they surrender. i'm going the bernie route. Ill vote for dems but no longer consider myself one,at least with teh current leadership of the party

It is important for Dems to know why I won’t donate. They seem clueless.

are clueless as to why they have seen a major decline in Donations...........Just as they are clueless on a lot of things, and thinking this will just "blow over.".......

cave so quick, they may even get the coveted GOP Garland award.

Oh fucking please.............

...unfortunately, those Dems are "young", and Dem leadership doesn't have a lot of respect for anyone who is guilty of that particular offense.

Sen. Warren gave a blistering speech on the Senate floor, so she is one of the "young" ones of which you speak?! Rep. Larson is a youngster too, with his attack on the MAGA/GOP.

Did you think ONLY young people are opposed to fascism?

When I named Warren and Larson since you intimated that only the young have a strong message of resistance!!! So I was thankin' ya for saying they are young!

I get we’re in between a rock and a hard place but very few Democrats are out in the trenches trying to listen to us and communicating with us. We just didn’t all of a sudden get to this place but here we are so what’s the plan? Do they have one? Can they explain the situation and let us give our input?

A failure of politics and a failure of messaging.

I don’t know if it’s true that a shutdown would only help Trump destroy the government. (If true, won’t he find a way to engineer one no matter what?). But, if it is true, shouldn’t Schumer and the leadership have determined it in advance, and not had him make his “we will kill the CR” announcement yesterday, only to flip-flop today?

Personally, I suspect the real reason was, not that Schumer reached that conclusion, but that he found overnight that the Fettermanchin wing of the party had enough votes for cloture anyway, and so decided to put lipstick on a pig. Hint: it didn’t work. All it did was make Democrats look weak and ineffectual. And, as someone else noted on this thread, voters will choose someone who’s strong and wrong over one who’s weak and right. Guess what Democrats look like right now, even to those who will be hurt by the Trump agenda? If you think that won’t hurt come 2026, you’re dreaming.

This is a failure no matter the situation we're in, because we don't appear to have a coherent opposition party.

"When people feel uncertain, they'd rather have someone strong and wrong than weak and right..." - Bill Clinton

The Continuing Resolution (CR) is not a CR as other provisions have been added to it. One provision basically give trump his Enabling Act.

If Democrats allow this CR to pass then it is deemed bipartisan and the world would see that the Democratic Party is equally liable for the destruction of our country and our Constitution.

Shut it down until repubs negotiate with the Dems.

Not only do we not have the media infrastructure (including podcasts) that rightwingers have, but we don't have enough spokespeople who can command media attention.

I'm usually not crazy about celebrities getting into politics, but at the moment we could use a few. Unfortunately, this is also a moment when most liberal celebrities would think it's almost suicidal to get into politics. Especially if Democratic politicians who've been doing this for years can't get their act together.

I saw a filmmaker I've corresponded with post today that we need a third party (first time I've seen that, so he's apparently giving up on Dems out of frustration). I disagree, though if we had a parliamentary system the anti-Trump parties could probably win. But we don't.

Just looked at Bluesky for the first time in a few hours, and among the first messages I noticed was Josh Marshall posting that "Chuck Schumer is a weak man and a fool."

Sigh.

Btw, having a unified message should NEVER mean reading from a script, identical speeches in videos. Dems have sometimes done that recently and were mocked for it. Not sure whose idea that was, but it was a bad one.

It’s not just having a message, it’s delivering it with passion and sincerity.

I will say that with regards to commanding media attention, obviously that’s not something that’s given — it has to be earned, or taken, by whatever means necessary. If we don’t have people who can do that, we need to get some. I know we have people who can handle themselves with great skill in the media, but that’s not enough any more — we need people who can be in everyone’s faces, every day, to an annoying degree.

Thinking about it, that might be what Newsom is up to with his podcast and RW interviews. It’s a turnoff for the base, but it got him a lot of attention, and these days attention equals legitimacy in the eyes of many voters.

In fact, maybe the problem is less the messaging and more the fact that we’re currently so bad at delivering ANY message in a confident manner.

We need a down-to-earth, easily understood message directed toward ordinary people….and we need down-to-earth, easily understood messengers. I’m fed up with Beltway Babble and the worn out messages and playbooks of yesteryear.

We don’t have friends across the aisle. Most of those people are willing to destroy their own country in exchange for a crack at more power.

Folks out in the country are worried sick. They’re scared. They’re waiting for someone who speaks their language. I’ll bet most of them don’t give a damn about the latest imported cheese at the market. They want to know how on earth they’re going to get the extra money needed for a new truck battery or their kid’s school lunch.

We have to get out there and mingle. Listen. Respond. Gather. Organize. Fight.

Excellent advice.

working class issues.

a complete stripping of everything of the agencies while the felon and henchmen train their blame on the Democrats while they build their case for a corrupt Biden presidency, while they examine alleged US military "options" for Panama and other "properties."

We don't have to have a "clear message" about what's obviously "move fast and break things" chaos by design.

And while you say we don't look as if we're "fighting," every single day it is happening;
-- Democrats are running town halls in Republican districts in place of the cowards of Congress.
-- Protests, big, small, in between, are taking place against this administration's actions every single day all over the country.

Schumer convinced me tonight on Chris Hayes (who pushed back hard on him) that this vote to prevent a shutdown allows the Senate Democratic caucus to go into high conflict with "the bastards." He's right. As things deteriorate across the country, no one will buy the lies from Trump 2.0 anymore.


Thank you for your clear framing of the Democratic Party stance during this time.

This was always going to be a bad deal either way, but I do believe that there may have been significant unintended consequences to shutting down the government.

It’s not going to be popular but it is what it is. It unfortunately doesn’t change the fact that Dem leadership seems rudderless right now, which is the fault of poor, almost non-existent messaging. But in the absence of a strong counter-message, I guess all we can do is try to to keep the focus on Trump’s insanity.

The Democrats are not rudderless.

They're only on Trump's sinking ship that will hurt so many millions who voted for him while -- and not for nothing -- Sanders, Warren, AOC and other Democrats are out there with voters explaining
-- i.e., messaging -- how and why the Republicans and this WH oligarch will ruin their lives and livelihoods.

Speaking of "insanity" (caps for EMphasis, not yelling) ...

THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS THE PARTY OF SANITY. And we are the ONLY party acting like it.

I'm okay with this vote.

We are winning there.
Best point Schumer made.

I had assumed courts would stay open during a shutdown, but that does not appear to be the case. Courts are the only way we are restraining Trump right now.

-- Democrats are running town halls in Republican districts in place of the cowards of Congress.


Oh really? What Democrats? Where is footage of the town hall that Schumer ran in a Republican district? Oh you mean some of the HOUSE Democrats are doing that. So the Senate Dems are doing NOTHING.


-- Protests, big, small, in between, are taking place against this administration's actions every single day all over the country.

Protests not organized by anyone in the Senate or the DNC. They are doing this on their own because our leaders have no spine.

What a bunch of BS>

in the minority, but overall what you call BS is still showing up across the country and representing the fight of the party of sanity writ large. You do you, thumper.

How could Democrats push back if Democrats are the people that voted for the CR?!? Democrats, in the eyes of the public, will be blamed just as much as Republicans because they voted for that CR too.
We have no high ground in voting for the CR.
Better to at least appear to be fighting then to appear to be compitulating.

like in the House

I just misspoke but I know the difference, you know the difference and so does pretty much every member of this website.
The problem is the 100+ million people that can barely be bothered to even vote. They have no idea how bills are passed. They don't even know what cloture is or care what it is. They will get told Democrats voted for it to by voting yes on cloture and that will be all they hear.

thanks, EarlG
to me you made good 2 cents

Trump and the GOP are going to do whatever they are going to do regardless, so I think Schumer needs to understand that the Democratic supporters desperately need to see a Democratic party that is going to fight. Just because we won't win doesn't mean you go down without a fight. It's lose-lose, but losing without a fight is worse.

There are leaders, but no real guiding voice that everyone seems to be willing to get behind.

I am confident that that voice will emerge, but hopefully it is not too late.

As it stands now, we are getting our clocks cleaned by the right.

Sure, it was a double bind.
Probably the regime would go for martial law if this CR not passed.
That would be more overreach, and that's all you've got. If you sign up for this regime, then you are part of it and bear responsibility for it.

I'm not qualified to answer that question with any certainty -- but I certainly agree with the OP on at least one thing:

Democrats have to be decisive with a strong consistent unified massage that casts the Party Of Trump in the public mind as the destructive threat that it truly is.

Amen, Brother Earl...


Messaging and goals are needed in any protest, currently we lacking in both.

Frankly, I’m fucking sick of those being the options. And the only way we can stop it is by taking the risk of upending the status-quo that only allows the Repugs to get away with whatever they want.

I think Chuck represents the financial industry and very wealthy in his district. The are his constituents, and I suspect they heavily influence his decision making. So the argument that it was it was a lose lose situation, so we we picked the lose without a fight option leaves me to think that the leadership is toothless.

Like EarlG says, if the government is down for 30 days, that's when the shit hits the fan. Chump can do anything he wants including declare martial law or worse. Schumer knows that can never be allowed to happen. It's the end of the line.

And EarlG didn't talk about what happens with a shutdown. Senator Chuck Schumer did. And EarlG says it doesn't sound unreasonable.

+ 1,000

But I think (I hope) the dithering ends now that Schumer has announced that he will not let the government shut down. I hope Schumer is still enough of a leader that the other Dems are listening and figuring out what our next step is.

The Repukes (right now) have us by the short hairs because we stood by and let it happen. The days of "standing by" are over.... we have to plan and act now for the future, while we still hope to have one.

Thanks, Earl.

I keep asking for a powerful and cogent message.

I had an OP earlier today where I talked about the need for the presence of strong messengers. I call them the good "explainers". They need to explain the process, with a little bit of civics, so that their message is not just rhetoric and viral talking points. My list includes (but is not limited to) Chris Murphy, Sheldon Whitehouse, Jamie Raskin, Cory Booker. New members Melanie Stansbury and Maxwell Frost deserve more air time. I think Bernie's anti-oligarchy tour is effective. I just saw Mike Levin speak to the CR and explain the choice. I am adding him to my list - he delivers just the right amount of wonk.

Earlier today, I said - we need to get John Larson out front, (if his blood pressure can tolerate it). I have shared the clip from yesterday's Ways and Means committee in several places.

Thanks again for your OP. It gives me inspiration to keep singing my song.

Or are we waiting for the present leadership to offer us something bright and new? From what?

We have been brick walled into a position, whether by our own doing or by the construct of the Republicans, where all our most precious and prized positions are echoing off the damn wall. Oh, I think we have the most human, most civilized and most powerful messages that the world has ever produced, but they are growing dim, not because we haven't been shouting them but because they are overwhelmed by the pretty plastic trinkets the right wing dangle before the ignorant as well as the promises of righteous indignation against evil forces. They are overwhelmed by lies that tout "the ends justify the means."

Voting down the CR with a single voice is the one if not the only weapon we have to fight back with a clear strong counter-message that says NO, dammit, just NO. Anything else is weak and empty.

I disagree with those who think that the Republicans would be able to blame us for everything that comes out of a shutdown. No matter what they say or do, the world already knows what their words are worth. Nothing. They would be standing with a bag over their head. But what are our words worth? By joining hand-in-hand with the Republicans by voting yes, we immediately lose whatever credibility, whatever strong message, whatever leverage we could have had, and the world would not forget it. We would blend deeper into the background and into an abyss of powerless untrustworthy sycophants that … don't have a clear and strong counter-message worth listening to.

D7

We just got 2 massive rulings today ordering all the fired probationary employees to be rehired.


I had assumed the courts would still operate during a shutdown, but Schumer said they won't, so we won't be anle to run to court for a TRO when Trump or DOGE does crazy fascist shit.

Introduce a resolution to enforce Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which he violated in plain sight. Simply declare that he is ineligible to hold Federal or State office. Do not refer to him by any title but Mister or Sir, as a matter of common courtesy. When he and the Republicans complain, call him Your Fraudulency. Then demand a vote to see if he could be made eligible, which, according to the aforementioned provision, requires a two-thirds vote of each House.

Read THE RETURN OF KING GEORGE III and THE END OF DEFERENCE at The Noah Commentaries.

https://marvindjones.blogspot.com

And then let the effing Maga-Rs own the shutdown.

To negotiate a far better budget deal, like she did when she was speaker.

Trumps been doing whatever he wants from his first day in office. Firings have been going on for weeks.

start threatening the Republican bill after Rs have shown how selfish, greedy, and hateful they are, I guess.

At first, I was okay with a brief shutdown. But if Mango Mussolini forces the Rs to hold out for 30 days, I don't know how we get around his declaration of a national emergency. I think the (not-really-a-C.R.) C.R. has to pass to show trump voters how unreasonably Rs govern.

that should be the message

by an elderly MD who was long passed his retirement time:
Our hosp. was already full when a snow storm hit. Some patients made it in, but most of the staff couldn't.
Working as the 'charge' nurse on the night shift, I had 27 pre- and post-op female patients and one 19 yo brand-new LPN to help me.
The ER sent us a new patient with threatened abortion. (I had not had obstet, labor or delivery rotation and did not know what to expect or do.
Fortunately, the pt. had been medicated in ER and seemed comfortable on admission to the ward.
However, when she turned on the call light and I answered, I knew I was in trouble. (Could not get a supervisor as they were tied up with other serious problems.) Trying to stay calm, I checked her and seeing a lot of blood and what I thought to be tissue, I gloved, picked up the tissue and put it into a specimen cup with alcohol. Then, I cleaned her up, re-medicated, made her as comfortable as possible and tried to reassure her she would be o.k.

When this MD, who had been trapped in the hosp. by the snowstorm came by to ck. one of his patients, I told him what I had done.
After he had told me that he thought everything would be o.k., he told me that in life I would face many situations that required my making a decision and the only thing I could do was to use my judgement and do what I thought best.

Then he said, "Experience had taught him that when in a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't; it is always better to be damned for doing than don'ting."

An anti-corruption message against the system that created Trump, rather than against Trump himself, is what's needed. Trump can be a metaphor for corruption to attack the system that enables and enriches people like him, but focus entirely on the injustice created around a government that has become revolved around money and greed, instead of justice and democracy. They need to embrace Bernie Sanders and fight the oligarchy!

and because of that there was no contingency planning in event that she lost.

Dems got caught with their pants down and still haven't pulled them up.

there is always more than 2 sides to every story.
I’m not jumping on any bandwagon either.