General Discussion

Silent3

(15,909 posts)

154. Because people don't all use the definitions you use, read the same studies, etc...

Sun Mar 28, 2021, 01:39 PM

Mar 2021

I'm actually not making this post to take a stand one way or another about spanking. I wish to comment on your obnoxious style of argument.

The surest way NOT to communicate is to decide that you decide all of the terms of the debate, all of the definitions of the words involved.

You know damned well that most people who advocate spanking are not, at least in their own minds, "advocating child abuse". You may think that no distinction exists between spanking and child abuse, but surely you realize that, no matter how well that research you link to holds up, it's not like it has been disseminated to the entire world, adopted as absolute truth by all people, and therefore anyone advocating spanking "knows" spanking can't be seen as anything but child abuse.

It's perfectly easy to understand why someone who doesn't view spanking as child abuse could advocate one without advocating the other. I think you know this, so why feign otherwise?

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

216 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Have you ever spanked your child (or any child under your care/supervision)? [View all] NurseJackie Mar 2021 OP

No -- assault is assault obamanut2012 Mar 2021 #1

Ridiculous. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #5

LOL, ok! nt USALiberal Mar 2021 #175

No! BlueLucy Mar 2021 #2

I did once. He ran into the street. Goodheart Mar 2021 #3

That is the ONLY reason to ever strike a child Freddie Mar 2021 #7

Same for me. He rode his bike down a hill, ran through an intersection in front of a car. Nay Mar 2021 #92

I've spanked my children. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #4

See my post 167 Hekate Mar 2021 #168

I have too...my oldest one...rarely. Mostly if something dangerous was done like running into Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #211

I don't have children, have no problem with a spank on the butt. betsuni Mar 2021 #6

I agree. Leaving welts is a beating. The *pop* and sting of an open hand... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #8

At what age is it no longer acceptable to spank somebody? Goodheart Mar 2021 #9

Ohhh, I'd say... probably about the time that they're old enough to NurseJackie Mar 2021 #13

So, you're OK with spanking a 21 year old student? Goodheart Mar 2021 #18

Sure. If the situation calls for it. Absolutely. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #24

You'll be arrested. Goodheart Mar 2021 #44

Sure. Whatever. Look how scared I am... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #155

when they are taller than you...hehe. I well remember my mother chasing my brother Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #212

Seriously, a pop on a fully-clothed butt is "assault"? betsuni Mar 2021 #12

I blame the "everyone gets a trophy" philosophy of Youth Soccer... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #15

That is ridiculous...and if social service gets involved they put them in homes that do worse too... Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #213

I was beaten. My father had a terrible temper. tavernier Mar 2021 #10

Yes, children respond differently to some kinds of punishment. Amishman Mar 2021 #11

Thanks very much for your thoughtful reply. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #16

My 4 year old grandson acts like your nephew and a "swat" from "Poppy" is the only thing that works. kickitup Mar 2021 #23

Yes, definite similarities to my nephew Amishman Mar 2021 #29

"We can't have a good visit until my husband strikes my smart, active grandson a few times." WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #88

Reminds me of an old Onion headline: ret5hd Mar 2021 #14

A child, no. Of course not. But ... J Magarac Mar 2021 #17

I'm not for spanking. Then, there are my daughter and step-daughter. 3Hotdogs Mar 2021 #19

If you manage employees, have you ever spanked them? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #20

No... Hugin Mar 2021 #21

I can't say, I've never had any children and was never a babysitter. But... George II Mar 2021 #22

Confusion, indeed. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #26

Psychologically, to the victim, there is very little difference between the two and the research... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #27

Ridiculous. --- Nobody is doing that. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #34

What's the difference? If you leave a mark? You are the one who is putting an arbitrary line... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #37

Again, ridiculous. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #41

Again, what's the difference? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #45

Looks like the Universities of Texas and Michigan got nice hefty grants from the government.... George II Mar 2021 #35

Well, anti-intellectual and science attitudes aren't exclusive to the right, that's for sure. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #38

I don't even know what any of that means. I think there's an intended insult in there but whatever. George II Mar 2021 #49

Uhm, this response is unsurprising to me, and a little sad. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #53

I'd love to see a study on how discipline was administered in the homes jimfields33 Mar 2021 #40

I'm actually sure its all over the place, given the beliefs of some, I'm sure they were raised in Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #42

You are probably right. jimfields33 Mar 2021 #101

Because people don't all use the definitions you use, read the same studies, etc... Silent3 Mar 2021 #154

What's obnoxious about it? Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #157

+1000 smirkymonkey Mar 2021 #163

Whether it's in the dictionary or not, or if it puzzles you or not... Silent3 Mar 2021 #179

It's common in American culture... tonedevil Mar 2021 #187

There is a lot about our culture that sucks Silent3 Mar 2021 #193

Post removed Post removed Mar 2021 #198

Not where and when I grew up. There never was a definitional difference. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #203

What's the difference between spanking and hitting? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #32

I'm sure you can point me to where I said "more parents should hit their kids", right? George II Mar 2021 #51

I call it like I see it. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #55

In that case maybe you can answer your own question: George II Mar 2021 #62

There isn't one beyond the shape of a hand. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #65

You didn't. You preferred to use the euphemism, but spanking is hitting. n/t pnwmom Mar 2021 #181

Spanking is a euphemism for hitting. The purpose is to punish with pain. pnwmom Mar 2021 #180

Time to repost this, not only is spanking wrong, it doesn't work. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #25

It works perfectly fine. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #28

I link to 50 year meta analysis by mental health and child development professionals, and you... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #31

LOL! Myself and my children. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #36

That's anecdotal, do you have any actual evidence? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #39

That's all the evidence I need. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #43

You sound like an anti-vaxxer, just saying. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #47

I have not attacked you, Humanist_Activist. Why attack me? NurseJackie Mar 2021 #52

I'm saying what you sound like an anti-science advocate, its not a personal attack... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #56

Yes it is. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #58

You display obvious survivor bias in your argumentation. You can at least try. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #63

That insult was hurled at with George II. It won't work with me either. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #68

Doesn't make it any less accurate an observation though. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #71

This thread is curious. TwilightZone Mar 2021 #66

It's pure hypocrisy kcr Mar 2021 #78

Yes, but mostly its cognitive dissonance, when its someone's preferred belief, they really Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #108

I don't have children, and have avoided needing to supervise any either... Silent3 Mar 2021 #178

Much like I do with any human... tonedevil Mar 2021 #185

There are ages where such discussion won't make much sense... Silent3 Mar 2021 #194

Do you think picking up... tonedevil Mar 2021 #197

And my parents and their six children. I have first hand proof, and it only took about 15 years.... George II Mar 2021 #109

Why is it this easy for me? No seriously, just stop, you aren't really helping your case here. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #114

I don't have a "case" here. But I we were to look at the evolution of child behavior, children.... George II Mar 2021 #124

Where is your evidence that kids today are less well adjusted than "back then"... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #128

I mean, seriously, I come with receipts.... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #132

Your experiences mirror mine. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #115

And there it is, generational myths wrapped up in other myths... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #117

I've worked very closely with our local Board of Education over the year, and some of the things.... George II Mar 2021 #135

Link? NurseJackie Mar 2021 #138

Actually I can do better than that. Here are THREE links! George II Mar 2021 #146

I have one... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #148

" I know what I know." Says everyone who justifies bad behavior!!! Nt USALiberal Mar 2021 #177

You and they turned out okay despite this practice, not because of it. pnwmom Mar 2021 #182

We found the right balance. Others apparently cannot and gravitate to one extreme or the other. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #196

It isn't an extreme to find methods of disciple that don't involve hitting. pnwmom Mar 2021 #208

Nobody said it was. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #209

It depends on what you mean by "work." WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #33

The outcome is perfectly fine. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #48

What outcome? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #54

Haaaaa! NurseJackie Mar 2021 #57

Your careful definition in the OP makes it clear that some people just really want a certain type of WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #59

It's not hitting. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #60

Keep telling yourself that. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #64

I'm just telling you... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #72

According to the definition you insisted we all use, you strike your children. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #79

LOL! NurseJackie Mar 2021 #81

Uhm, if you spanked them, you hit them, I mean, that's just literally true. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #82

Once size doesn't fit all. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #87

LOL, OK, that settles it! Wow!! nt USALiberal Mar 2021 #174

Two children and each once alphafemale Mar 2021 #30

Would you say they were responding more to... Hugin Mar 2021 #67

Oh. I am pretty sure it was the panic level of voice. alphafemale Mar 2021 #126

I was beaten by my step father. I was spanked by my mother. CrackityJones75 Mar 2021 #46

I find this anti-intellectual streak to be fascinating. I mean, if it contradicts your personal... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #50

I am not anti-intellectual at all. CrackityJones75 Mar 2021 #61

Its a meta-study, a study of studies, if you will, and the aggregate is a consensus among... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #69

No evidence is going to change my mind CrackityJones75 Mar 2021 #75

Exactly. n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #77

I find the streak of personal insults to be fascinating. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #70

Uhm, yes they are, what else do you mean when you contradict scientific meta-studies... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #73

Yes. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #80

Wait, so if someone acted the exact same as you, but their kid had to go to therapy... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #86

No. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #89

OK, so what, that parent is an abuser, but you are not, what would be the difference? n/t Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #93

No. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #94

So psychologically traumatizing your own children is permissible? Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #96

LOL! NurseJackie Mar 2021 #99

Again, you make my argument for me, completely arbitrary. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #102

No it's not. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #105

You are being completely arbitrary, defensive and evasive throughout this thread. Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #106

I've done no such thing. I don't judge you. I don't call you names. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #110

Again, you demonstrate your own bias, if people don't use physical "discipline" they are being... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #111

Everyone has their "own bias". NurseJackie Mar 2021 #118

What name have I called you? Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #121

We're going in circles now. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #131

You are literally arguing, in this post! That those who advocate against spanking are advocating... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #136

+1 Arazi Mar 2021 #165

Psst, Jackie. He read a study. Hekate Mar 2021 #173

Anti-intellectual streak?You are going out of your way to be as insulting as possible in this thread Hekate Mar 2021 #172

No, but my son responded well to verbal commands SYFROYH Mar 2021 #91

Just wait until CrackityJones75 Mar 2021 #134

Thank you, CrackityJones Hekate Mar 2021 #171

Raised three kids Chautauquas Mar 2021 #74

It doesn't work for everyone. There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach that... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #84

I agree Chautauquas Mar 2021 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author mnhtnbb Mar 2021 #162

Never. It's repulsive and barbaric Arazi Mar 2021 #76

Interesting question. Had to stop and think GusBob Mar 2021 #83

I was spanked as a child Bettie Mar 2021 #85

You were beaten, not spanked, and I'm so sorry... Hekate Mar 2021 #176

How do you explain to a child that it's OK for an adult to hit them mcar Mar 2021 #95

I never needed to do that. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #97

"I never needed to do that." WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #100

It wasn't necessary. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #103

"And it worked perfectly." WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #113

Actually, it's not about what I need. It's what my children needed. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #116

No child needs their parent to strike them. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #119

Mine did. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #120

I am sorry you believe that. Truly. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #122

I suspect this will be a great disappointment.... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #129

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #130

Of course it is. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #133

. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #137

Perfectly. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #140

What does that look like? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #141

What do you think it looks like? NurseJackie Mar 2021 #142

I don't know; that's why I'm asking WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #143

I figured as much. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #145

Oh no, success can look like different things to different people. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #147

Love you Jackie, but we're going to have to disagree on this one mcar Mar 2021 #149

What's done is done. My mind is not changed. Nor will the past be changed. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #151

Spanking is hitting, it is striking obamanut2012 Mar 2021 #150

Huh? NurseJackie Mar 2021 #152

What spanking teaches is that it is OK for larger humans Bettie Mar 2021 #98

It's wrong, counterproductive, and I did it two or three times Beakybird Mar 2021 #104

How do you feel about permissiveness? NurseJackie Mar 2021 #107

I would imagine that a behavioral goal chart would work. Beakybird Mar 2021 #112

Yes. Instead of a smack on the bottom when a child has a tantrum in the grocery store... NurseJackie Mar 2021 #127

That was funny! Beakybird Mar 2021 #139

my conclusion has been quaker bill Mar 2021 #123

I was indifferent to punishment or reward as a kid. Ask my parents or teachers. hunter Mar 2021 #125

Oh, and another scientific study, straight from the horses' mouth, so to speak... Humanist_Activist Mar 2021 #144

Fantastic thread Jackie! BannonsLiver Mar 2021 #153

Technically a spank but actually a love pat. KentuckyWoman Mar 2021 #156

I spanked when my kiddo was lil' and I regret it vigorously now. Decoy of Fenris Mar 2021 #158

No. I was terribly abused as a child and vowed that I would never do that to anyone else. smirkymonkey Mar 2021 #159

I almost didn't answer because feel bad about it Tree Lady Mar 2021 #160

It teaches a child that violence gets obedience. Blue_true Mar 2021 #161

Neither is mutually exclusive. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #202

Talking to and mentoring a child is not permissiveness, Blue_true Mar 2021 #215

Uh-huh. I know what permissiveness is. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #216

I raised two boys. mnhtnbb Mar 2021 #164

No. I was abused as a kid, and decided I wouldn't hit my kids at all. fishwax Mar 2021 #166

Corollary: what year were you born? Hekate Mar 2021 #167

I'm also seventy mumble years old. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #169

I used to have a stepdaughter (before divorce), but... Buckeye_Democrat Mar 2021 #170

I've always been smarter... tonedevil Mar 2021 #183

I'd never do it vercetti2021 Mar 2021 #184

I frequently rewarded my daughters... tonedevil Mar 2021 #186

I was having emotional problems vercetti2021 Mar 2021 #188

I tried so hard... tonedevil Mar 2021 #189

My mom did her best vercetti2021 Mar 2021 #190

I don't blame my parents... tonedevil Mar 2021 #191

If you use physical "sanctions" to make your kids behave or be good, you're an abuser. Duncan Grant Mar 2021 #192

Sad that others here don't see that. /nt tonedevil Mar 2021 #199

Thank you obamanut2012 Mar 2021 #210

Spanking discharges the adult's anger, frustration, fear or discomfort with no positive effect. Duncan Grant Mar 2021 #214

It's usual now that words have different meanings depending on "feelings." betsuni Mar 2021 #195

Making an occasional swat on the behind equivalent to child abuse is an abomination alphafemale Mar 2021 #200

That's a very astute and thoughtful observation. NurseJackie Mar 2021 #201

Some peoeple in this thread I usually agree with greenjar_01 Mar 2021 #204

What's the goal? Stop behavior or teach? nolabear Mar 2021 #205

This is a great summation. Duncan Grant Mar 2021 #207

Not ever. Not once. kairos12 Mar 2021 #206