General Discussion

Recursion

(56,582 posts)

79. As I've said repeatedly, for two reasons

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:43 AM

Dec 2012

1) Since we got the exact same decrease in gun crimes as Australia did, without actually getting rid of guns like Australia tried to, I think it's silly to credit Australia's gun control with the crime decrease

2) Australia's gun ownership rate hasn't gone down, as I've pointed out several times

Would I support that? Possibly. We could certainly use the stimulus, and as someone pointed out upthread we're talking about a few hundred billion dollars. The phrase "genuine reason" worries me a bit; as long as it's statutory rather than the whim of a possibly racist or sexist sheriff, I could buy into it. I'd rather see private sales regulated than prohibited (require a background check and publicly recorded), but I'd also rather see drugs and prostitution regulated than prohibited, so I'm pretty far off the mainstream there, I guess. Private sales will continue whether they're legal or not, and I'd rather have them off the black market and kept track of as much as possible.

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The Aussies Had a Gun Massacre Problem. THEY FIXED IT! WHY CAN'T WE? [View all] Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 OP

This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Dec 2012 #1

If you're right, the entire country is doomed Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #2

yes we CAN and yes we WILL nt Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #97

This time we WILL. 6502 Dec 2012 #168

Because the the lobbiest, namely the NRA, will not allow it. liberal N proud Dec 2012 #3

The NRA Has Gone Silent Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #4

Good idea. pangaia Dec 2012 #31

Carville! backscatter712 Dec 2012 #118

There's much more to fix than can be fixed by gun control, but - Daemonaquila Dec 2012 #50

Most Definately PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #54

I say smoke them out of their holes Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #99

Their pals in the conspiracy world and Rush and Beck haven't though - neither has ALEC. freshwest Dec 2012 #128

The NRA will be back, they are just waiting until people cool down over this incident cstanleytech Dec 2012 #159

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014339712 Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #6

I was watching... PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #60

Michael Bloomberg Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #78

The NRA is a front atreides1 Dec 2012 #77

heck Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #155

NRA and the insane American gun fetish murphyj87 Dec 2012 #179

We are a nation of privileged children who want all the toys but non of the responsibilities. leeroysphitz Dec 2012 #5

+1000 baldguy Dec 2012 #8

Bingo! Their macho deficiency, propped up with their multiple weapons. RC Dec 2012 #21

You nailed it in one well-crafted sentence. hifiguy Dec 2012 #110

Does Australia have a 2nd Amendment in their Constitution? Pryderi Dec 2012 #7

Guns are already regulated. Just extend the same rules from automatic to semi-auto firearms. leveymg Dec 2012 #10

Why do you cherish that Amendment so much, when all the other Amendments have been jonesgirl Dec 2012 #41

For ME.... Plucketeer Dec 2012 #76

The pro-slavery people welcome your comment. pop topcan Dec 2012 #151

I don't understand your comment Pop Topcan jonesgirl Dec 2012 #181

No. Australian law is based heavily on English law . . . MrModerate Dec 2012 #55

Close but not exactly DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #107

Define "exactly" . . . MrModerate Dec 2012 #132

Empire v. Commonwealth DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #166

Commonwealth was heir to the empire. The rump of empire. The evolution of empire. MrModerate Dec 2012 #174

Not intentional DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #176

The Commonwealth and the Empire are two different things... Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #167

Your Item 2 is very, very, very important to young Australians of my acquaintance. MrModerate Dec 2012 #175

Membership does have its benefits... DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #177

does australia maintain "a well regulated militia?" frylock Dec 2012 #126

They do. DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #178

Know why they call it an *amendment*? gcomeau Dec 2012 #130

There's another document that should be read... the devil Dec 2012 #145

No advanced nation... murphyj87 Dec 2012 #169

A ban plus buy back would be powerful Renew Deal Dec 2012 #9

A buy-back might work, but boy will it be expensive. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #26

Let's ask the parents of those dead kids how much they're worth. Wednesdays Dec 2012 #29

So you have no problem with the Pentagon and DHS budget? krispos42 Dec 2012 #40

I'm not saying it's not worth it, just pointing out the cost. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #43

We piss that away on the military every year...and then some. ragemage Dec 2012 #42

We piss that much away every year on greenskeeping on military golf courses! xtraxritical Dec 2012 #137

Yes, that would be expensive Thav Dec 2012 #52

Take it out of the Defense budget. Plenty of waste there, to cover a buyback. SammyWinstonJack Dec 2012 #53

No argument here. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #86

And would save more American lives Nevernose Dec 2012 #100

And just the medical costs of gunshot wounds . . . MrModerate Dec 2012 #58

Sounds like about how much stimulus we need Recursion Dec 2012 #74

We're not talking about every weapon Renew Deal Dec 2012 #91

How many trillions of dollars have SheilaT Dec 2012 #115

Of course, the U.S. can do the same. Legislators make waaaaaay too much money off valerief Dec 2012 #11

Australia is a country with a population..... A HERETIC I AM Dec 2012 #12

Why? Most Aussies live in cities and suburbs, just like here. What's the difference? leveymg Dec 2012 #13

Australia is the most urbanized country in the world marions ghost Dec 2012 #45

Absolutely Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #89

Thank you for your post marions ghost Dec 2012 #93

You're Most Welcome Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #102

True, but we got the Puritans! Festivito Dec 2012 #136

There are people that would donate BILLIONS to the Gov for the buyback program... Firebrand Gary Dec 2012 #14

If they're willing to spend that kind of money they don't need the government...just a few dozen pop topcan Dec 2012 #152

The UK got rid of most guns after another School Shootong, 16 children 1 Adult.......... kooljerk666 Dec 2012 #15

I heard a BBC interview ReRe Dec 2012 #16

Ban assault rifles and semi-automatics.... horsedoc Dec 2012 #17

You just can't do that! UndahCovah Dec 2012 #34

Call the whambulaaance marions ghost Dec 2012 #95

LOL! Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #109

The point is, when the gop takes control UndahCovah Dec 2012 #142

Of course you can ban things marions ghost Dec 2012 #147

You don't really know anything about guns, do you? pop topcan Dec 2012 #154

Because we have a very corrupt government. aandegoons Dec 2012 #18

Thanks for posting this. LisaLynne Dec 2012 #19

Blows holes in all of the NRA gun psycho babbling points. 99Forever Dec 2012 #20

And in general the rates of death by gun In Australia is dropping marions ghost Dec 2012 #22

It's also dropping in the US Recursion Dec 2012 #32

Their massacre rate dropped to ZERO after the ban Doctor_J Dec 2012 #36

Their massacre rate was much lower than ours before the ban, too Recursion Dec 2012 #39

America's death by gun is currently 50 X Australia's marions ghost Dec 2012 #46

I wouldn't oppose an attempt at what Australia did Recursion Dec 2012 #49

What do you think of this paper?: marions ghost Dec 2012 #56

I agree fewer guns mean fewer homicides. I do not believe legal restrictions mean fewer guns Recursion Dec 2012 #59

Your example of DC marions ghost Dec 2012 #64

But from what I'm seeing, the rate of firearms ownership didn't go down in Australia, either Recursion Dec 2012 #67

When on Nov 7 the gun nuts were threatening to move Down Under, Doctor_J Dec 2012 #81

Totally. I would love to get rid of semi-automatic weapons. Recursion Dec 2012 #83

Game. Set. Match. Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #125

Uh, no Doctor_J Dec 2012 #80

The argument is that Australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996, which is untrue Recursion Dec 2012 #87

2 fatalities? That's a mass shooting? ThoughtCriminal Dec 2012 #146

All murders are down but the percentage commited by firearms stays pretty constant. progressoid Dec 2012 #47

Freedom is dangerous without common sense. TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #23

And they didn't have to ban video games and movies? eShirl Dec 2012 #24

No, but they may've had to curb RW hate radio--if, in fact, there Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #131

The one simple answer: phobias and racism. ananda Dec 2012 #25

Not only would this never happen within the Corporate Republic, it would never even harun Dec 2012 #27

Just imagine how much lower it would be without Lord Rupert and his minions pushing the hate button? Ford_Prefect Dec 2012 #28

We got the same decrease in homicides by firearms, without getting rid of the firearms Recursion Dec 2012 #30

Interestingly, ProSense Dec 2012 #61

Assault weapons are so rarely used in crimes that they don't even show up in the stats Recursion Dec 2012 #63

So you're for assault weapons? ProSense Dec 2012 #69

I think the assault weapons ban was stupid. I bet you would too, if you learned what it actually did Recursion Dec 2012 #72

Are you ProSense Dec 2012 #75

As I've said repeatedly, for two reasons Recursion Dec 2012 #79

You keep making ProSense Dec 2012 #84

Well, first off, there has been a mass shooting in Australia since 1996 Recursion Dec 2012 #88

Again, ProSense Dec 2012 #92

You do know that Connecticut has a strict AWB? hack89 Dec 2012 #82

Clearly it needs to be improved. n/t ProSense Dec 2012 #85

They still have representative democracy in Australia Doctor_J Dec 2012 #33

Our government is too corrupt Demeter Dec 2012 #35

The problem is mental illness and lack of treatment Demeter Dec 2012 #37

"by gun", "by gun" krispos42 Dec 2012 #38

Because we've got the damn 2nd Amendment--that anachronistic relic Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #44

slaves were counted as 3/5 of a person in the original Constitution as well NewJeffCT Dec 2012 #62

Yes, they were. That unfortunate clause was subsequently struck down, Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #73

And they still are. ieoeja Dec 2012 #112

You live in an urban area - great. Indydem Dec 2012 #98

Please, spare us the nauseating image of your Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #119

AK-47 and all fully automatic rifles are already highly regulated - nearly illegal. Indydem Dec 2012 #120

But, their kissing cousins, the AK-ad-nauseum semi-automatics Surya Gayatri Dec 2012 #123

Question: jonesgirl Dec 2012 #48

I doubt you'll get much of an answer if any Fumesucker Dec 2012 #149

Uncomfortable questions?? Too tough?? jonesgirl Dec 2012 #180

It's just 3 letters to explain why we can't - NRA LynneSin Dec 2012 #51

Wait, WHO is getting filty rich? Indydem Dec 2012 #103

a little deliberately obtuse are we? nt laundry_queen Dec 2012 #163

Because ProSense Dec 2012 #57

The buyback hasn't seemed to change Australia's firearms ownership rate Recursion Dec 2012 #65

The point is the policy worked to reduce the violence. ProSense Dec 2012 #66

Except our violence rate went down too, by the same amount (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #68

Your argument is ProSense Dec 2012 #71

Because "everyone knows" that gun control doesn't work MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #70

Because we are the CAN'T DO IT country Dems to Win Dec 2012 #90

because Americans are fucking crazy, unlike Aussies. librechik Dec 2012 #94

Why can't we? Simply 'cause too many pols and other Americans view the right to pack indepat Dec 2012 #96

Please update rhat the facts are wrong on this article neffernin Dec 2012 #101

No, the facts aren't wrong. ProSense Dec 2012 #105

Hrm, not how i understood it neffernin Dec 2012 #160

There's been no massacres since the gun reform happened in Australia... Violet_Crumble Dec 2012 #165

They don't have election stealing, right wing... santamargarita Dec 2012 #104

Switzerland... LP2K12 Dec 2012 #106

What do you think the Swiss example proves? Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #127

I believe... LP2K12 Dec 2012 #134

I am Swiss (double citizen living there) and I agree. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #135

We let Industry control our Government AZ Progressive Dec 2012 #108

My sister in Australia HeiressofBickworth Dec 2012 #111

why did "self defense" not count? shireen Dec 2012 #113

Because both our politicians and voters are COWARDS. Scootaloo Dec 2012 #114

Excellent! Thank you for posting this! solara Dec 2012 #116

Because they have a parliament? SoCalDem Dec 2012 #117

"There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since" = false. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #121

Because the right wingers are quick to come back with nonsensical BS excuses for gun worship Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #122

K n R Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2012 #124

So did the Brits. KamaAina Dec 2012 #129

Easy answer. Apathy and stupidity. Approx 68% of eligible voters either didnt bother to vote rhett o rick Dec 2012 #133

because the NRA and their repug cronies love guns more than children samsingh Dec 2012 #138

The last line is F*ing -- FALSE. NOT TRUE. BALDERDASH. Festivito Dec 2012 #139

Still, only one shooting in 15+ years AZ Progressive Dec 2012 #144

"...hasn’t been a single one..." I can't use that line. Festivito Dec 2012 #171

A single "mass" shooting with *TWO* fatalities in over 15 years. gcomeau Dec 2012 #150

In Australia - that's a "mass shooting" ThoughtCriminal Dec 2012 #157

That's not the line I was fed in the OP. Festivito Dec 2012 #172

It took 12 days to pass the law MrMickeysMom Dec 2012 #140

After every tragedy we 840high Dec 2012 #141

Seems to be a sensible and sane country treestar Dec 2012 #143

Kicking to the top, for my Aussie/Vietnam n/t UTUSN Dec 2012 #148

Aussies are tough folks, and they bit the bullet. Our gun "enthusiasts" don't have the guts to try Hoyt Dec 2012 #153

Overcompensation Eric the Reddish Dec 2012 #173

It's time to lead, Mr. President. leftlibdem420 Dec 2012 #156

I'm sure many said there would never be health care reform here.... Isoldeblue Dec 2012 #158

K & R Care Acutely Dec 2012 #161

Because most American gun nuts aren't as smart as their average kangaroo. n/t Cleita Dec 2012 #162

knr for sanity Douglas Carpenter Dec 2012 #164

To Be Cynical - Because NRA Supporters And Gun Apologists Would Rather Die Supporting cantbeserious Dec 2012 #170