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In reply to the discussion: The Illusion Is Broken [View all]

pat_k

(11,534 posts)
66. And as the spell breaks for some, let's extend a little grace.
Fri Jul 18, 2025, 09:52 PM
Jul 18

No forgiveness in advance, but I firmly believe the "never forgive, never forget" sentiment and shaming, hateful rhetoric directed at 47 voters that is so widespread is seriously problematic. As long as MAGA as a cult, or a MAGA individual, is immorally attacking our core values, we must defend ourselves and be loud and proud about what those values are. But I wish more of us would learn to do it without the rhetorical violence against "them."

Food for thought on understanding the cult and some closing advice from Jayne Converse in this short 5 min video:

....Shame is too powerful, so they double-down, like trump does. Some trump supporters know deep down they've been conned. They've seen the cruelty, the corruption, the chaos, but they've already invested years of their indentity into defending him. To walk away now would mean confronting shame, losing their community, admitting they were wrong. And that is terrifying to them. So instead, they dig in deeper...

Not everyone in that cult is unreachable. Some are too far gone. Some are on the edge. Quiet. Doubting. Hurting. We don't get them back with facts. We get them back by offering something Trump never will: real community, real care, and real solutions... Offer people a way out that doesn't begin with shame, but with dignity... This fight isn't just about defeating Trump. It's about breaking the spell and building something better in its place.


Points along the same lines were made by Sarah McBride (1st trans U.S. Congressperson) in an interview shortly after she was sworn in.

...This country is still at a trans 101 spot... Leaders should always be out front of public opinion, but in order to foster change in public opinion we've got to be within arms distance of the public, so we can pull the along with us. If we get too out ahead of it we lose our grip and are unable to pull the public along with us... There is a space for diversity of messengers, and a diversity of message... What we do know is that as the movement for marriage equality moved forward, the most effective messengers for marriage were not same sex couples, were not parents of same sex couples or kids of same sex couples, the most effective messengers for marriage equality were those that evolved. They were effective because they gave a permission structure for people who had not yet gotten there that it was ok to be uncomfortable, it was ok to be on the other side of the issue. You were not a bad person, you weren't wrong. And by giving people permission to be wrong, it created the space and grace for people to grow. We need more grace in our politics if we want people to actually grow...

We are shooting ourselves in the foot as people who believe in progress when we create no incentive for people to grow because they perceive they will be permanently guilty for having been wrong. We create no space for them to grow by extending no grace for them to walk there...

One of the reasons you see people pushed into their respective corners -- you say something that's deemed problematic. And you are immediately hounded by one side and immediately embraced by the other side. Human nature is -- when faced with that degree of extreme binary reactions is to go to the people who are validating you instantaneously. So we unintentionally push people further and further into their own corners and into their negative opinion by responding with a degree of condemnation and vitriol that creates no incentive or space for them to grow...


NVC (Marshall Rosenberg's non-violent communication) skills can be useful. It's not specifically designed for communicating with cult adherents or across ideological divides, but the principles are powerful in all sorts of conflict resolution situations. There are NVC practice groups online and in some locations, in person.







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The Illusion Is Broken [View all] Mr.WeRP Jul 17 OP
Maybe the GOP wants their party back? applegrove Jul 17 #1
Link? FiveFifteen Jul 17 #3
You linked to the wrong person. I did not mention Trump's illness. applegrove Jul 17 #5
It's just venous insufficiency, Mossfern Jul 17 #6
Dammit! I was hoping it was cancer. Dr. T Jul 17 #19
The symptoms fit congestive heart failure, which is definitely life-threatening, although it might take a while. ShazzieB Jul 18 #41
Whatever it is, I hope it's painful. Dr. T Jul 18 #43
Supposedly. IF you believe what the Trump White Hiuse says. ShazzieB Jul 18 #40
Usually folks have 5 years from diagnosis to death Joinfortmill Jul 18 #47
Thanks for this info! ShazzieB Jul 18 #55
It seems almost any illness would be sped up in a role like POTUS Iris Jul 18 #58
Here ya go JoseBalow Jul 17 #9
I wonder if he ever accused canetoad Jul 17 #16
I'm sure he has JoseBalow Jul 17 #21
I recall him (or Enquirer?) making fun of Hillary having "cankles" Pachamama Jul 18 #37
they all used that in 2016 rampartd Jul 18 #48
Or the oligarchy has about had their fill of Krasnov. GoodRaisin Jul 17 #11
They don't want to be behind obvious Epstein crimes applegrove Jul 17 #12
Never happening. That ship sailed AGES ago...and this IS the party they want. They have gone out of their way to prove Karasu Jul 17 #25
I agree the GOP owns this all. applegrove Jul 17 #30
True that, but at the same time, they don't want a Depression. Justice matters. Jul 18 #38
They claim they don't want a depression, but they have done everything possible to ensure one, purely as a matter of Karasu Jul 18 #56
except they are trying very hard to take the country down with them Skittles Jul 18 #44
Rumor has it that the doctors give him six months. Sessuch Jul 18 #63
Well my fingers are crossed. Swede Jul 17 #2
Agree and that's why this story is important newdeal2 Jul 17 #4
I'll believe it will make a difference... returnee Jul 18 #54
Even if cannabis_flower Jul 18 #57
'will definitely impact his quality of life.' not so much. elleng Jul 17 #7
just like his ear was blown off debm55 Jul 17 #20
Guess you're stronger than most, but the Cleveland Clinic disagrees with you Mr.WeRP Jul 17 #23
CVI elleng Jul 18 #42
I haven't seen any reliable source saying the "illness" will impact his quality of life. Renew Deal Jul 17 #8
True. H2O Man Jul 17 #13
maybe a normal person Skittles Jul 17 #18
Cleveland Clinic says so Mr.WeRP Jul 17 #24
"Normal Old person stuff"? Moostache Jul 18 #52
Well bdamomma Jul 17 #10
Ya think? Dude looks like Pizza the Hut from Spaceballs.... democratsruletheday Jul 17 #31
on the one hand I feel bad cheering the suffering of another Skittles Jul 18 #36
What we may be seeing, is the very embryonic begginnings Ars Longa Jul 17 #14
"... you ever been bit by a dead bee?" BurnDoubt Jul 17 #15
End him dweller Jul 17 #17
And it took a dead sex trafficker to do it. ancianita Jul 17 #22
Wonder if his cult members will start stuffing their socks AllyCat Jul 17 #26
LOL!! Well-played!! Seinan Sensei Jul 18 #64
I do my best AllyCat Jul 18 #68
Hope and prayers you are correct! kimbutgar Jul 17 #27
I'm an atheist. Mr.WeRP Jul 17 #28
I wish wichita Jul 17 #29
I'm waiting to see if this is permanent Picaro Jul 17 #32
I think many of the MAGA have known for awhile they're being taken for a ride by a con artist dlk Jul 17 #33
I'm wondering... regnaD kciN Jul 18 #34
Once the tax cut passed the oligarchs don't need him and the ignorant immature distractions. rubbersole Jul 18 #35
Yep, once they get the police state infrastructure and info sharing systems in place misanthrope Jul 18 #46
That's why I raised the issue if his health Mr.WeRP Jul 18 #50
So does this vein condition require intravenous treatment? HeartsCanHope Jul 18 #39
I have been on weekly infused meds for 19 years now misanthrope Jul 18 #45
You are absolutely right, misanthrope! My husband said last night that it sounds like the movie Dave. HeartsCanHope Jul 18 #49
He's already at Bernie's. Gone in PA, and a robotic chatbot has taken his place. Taxidermy is tough!!! usonian Jul 18 #51
There isn't anything Trump could do--- Escape Jul 18 #53
I don't know that it will get better, unfortunately. 58Sunliner Jul 18 #59
Et tu Brute was always in the cards for Trump Jarqui Jul 18 #60
Epstein was the final straw... dlk Jul 18 #61
They are ready to install Vance. LiberalBrooke Jul 18 #62
Vance will replace Steven Miller Seinan Sensei Jul 18 #65
And as the spell breaks for some, let's extend a little grace. pat_k Jul 18 #66
What should happen now SpankMe Jul 18 #67
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