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GreatGazoo

(4,173 posts)
Wed Jul 30, 2025, 02:26 PM Jul 30

Why Is So Much of What We Call "History" Wrong? [View all]

History has for many centuries been a branch of literature, eg fiction. Nice stories but like the term "legend" the term history has long implied that it may or may not be true.

When we read about Gilgamesh or Romulus and Remus we recognize a mixture of fact and fantasy. Gilgamesh is an epic poem from around 2100 BCE. It embodies the history of a people, the Sumerians, even though it conveys almost no facts. The Bible is a collection of books, a canon, which was treated as an account of the lives of various Judeo-Christian people and groups. Until very recently, the Bible WAS the history. The Puritans, among others, had no concept of secular history. IOW everything that has happened or will happen had to be viewed within the narrative of the Bible.

One very significant shift came in the 1700s. Building on the foundations of rationalism laid by Descarte, Locke, Spinoza and others, Thomas Jefferson published a version of the Bible which omitted the miracles. Meanwhile in the secular branch of history biografiction remained the dominant format. Most famously Washington Irving (1783 - 1859) wrote a fictional biography of Colombus by imagining what Colombus's family, beliefs, decisions, etc were.

Biografiction makes heavy use of fictional anecdotes perhaps because people love little moralistic life lessons even if they are total bullshit. "Shakespeare poached deer" "Washington cut down a cherry tree" and could not lie about it. But to the present these lies persist and new ones are being added. The purpose of history according to some is to advance a unifying narrative. James Loewen in his best selling "Lies My Teacher Told Me" (1995) said that 'What is taught in public high schools would more accurately be called 'Patriotism'." He also cites that after sex education, history is the most common reason for strong disagreements between parents and school systems.

Even at the college level, history is treated as literature; a Bachelor of Arts not Science. Yet the arc that began before Jefferson, from myth to science, continues. Recent advances in science have created something of a crisis for traditional history. For example DNA confirmed what prior to advances had been unprovable rumors about Sally Hemings and Jefferson. Major historians of Jefferson, aka "experts", had denied Jefferson's paternity of Hemings' children for over 150 years. Science won that one but it doesn't always win.

In 2016 a GPR scan of the nameless and dateless 3-foot slab on the floor of Trinity Church in Stratford Upon Avon confirmed what skeptics had said for 400 years: Shakespeare isn't buried there. It's empty. We didn't need LiDAR to tell us that 3-feet is not big enough for an adult body but even with the scan the myth of Shakespeare is uncorrected. Science be damned. BY the thousands, people still come to Stratford and many pay $30 to stand in a room called "Shakespeare's birthplace" even though that entire house was built in 1857. Why? Because Shakespeare is a national icon and the myth unifies Anglophiles (except Henry James and Mark Twain).

As the saying goes "You cannot reason a person out of belief which they did not arrive at by reason in the first place." The strength of our attachment to beliefs is proportional to the amount of time we have held those beliefs. Emotion often beats fact but a sea change is underway.

College History departments are being abandoned. Far better would be to revitalize them and embrace science and primary source materials. Currently a Bachelor of Arts in History is good prep for law school or teaching but there is no good reason not to integrate new tools and teach students how to use those -- DNA, LiDAR, AI, GPR, comparative analysis. Accurate history gives us lessons in what can go right and wrong. How dictators emerge. How they are overcome. How entire societies fall into immoral and catastrophic practices. Accurate history tells us how we are doing. It is data points that form an arc of progress or decline.

As literature, history is full of lies and biases, many of which hide scandals, crimes and failures. We will be well served to empower younger generations to pursue the truth with all of the tools and primary sources we can give them, and to discount the myths which prevent learning and course-corrections. Let history finally become a science.

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The "winners" write it. H2O Man Jul 30 #1
This NewHendoLib Jul 30 #2
That, and the fact that most people don't give a damn thucythucy Jul 30 #4
"How much do we devote, yearly, to the preservation..."? Billions of $$$ GreatGazoo Jul 30 #7
I specifically tried to exclude tourism and tourist attractions, thucythucy Jul 30 #15
I hear you on NFL expenses vs history preservation GreatGazoo Jul 30 #17
I agree that the study of history has and is making great strides. thucythucy Aug 2 #33
Americans are more interested in science fiction than history. thought crime Jul 30 #18
That simple malaise Jul 30 #8
Not always TnDem Jul 30 #12
But which "holy" texts were chosen to be included in the Bible, Aristus Jul 30 #16
The Bible isn't history. thought crime Jul 30 #19
"Nobody reads anymore." Kid Berwyn Jul 31 #27
;--{) Goonch Jul 31 #28
Countering Criticism of the Warren Report (CIA, PDF) Kid Berwyn Jul 31 #29
There are no facts. Only interpretations. Friedrich Nietzsche Ping Tung Jul 30 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author thought crime Jul 30 #20
To a certain degree it can only be an art ITAL Jul 30 #5
"Why it happened" is much more debatable than 'What happened' GreatGazoo Jul 30 #6
Nice OP malaise Jul 30 #9
Ironically, your version of the scan of Shakespeare's grave is completely wrong muriel_volestrangler Jul 30 #10
GPR shows no skull, no casket or coffin, not even nails from a rotted coffin. GreatGazoo Jul 30 #11
The irony of your attempt to spin this against the reality is quite hilarious muriel_volestrangler Jul 30 #13
I cited the Shakespeare myth specifically for the dynamic you are helping to illustrate GreatGazoo Jul 30 #14
Sure, go on denying what the people who did the scan said, if it makes you feel OK muriel_volestrangler Jul 31 #22
Kevin Colls says there is no skull under that stone and no coffin GreatGazoo Jul 31 #23
So we've gone from "Shakespeare isn't buried there. It's empty" to 5, including him, buried in shallow graves in shrouds muriel_volestrangler Jul 31 #24
According to Colls and science, Is Shakespeare's skull in that infant-sized "grave"? Yes or No GreatGazoo Jul 31 #25
They don't know if the skull is in there or not, but the grave is not "infant-sized" muriel_volestrangler Jul 31 #30
"It's very very convincing to me that his skull isn't at Holy Trinity at all." - Colls GreatGazoo Aug 1 #31
In your arguments in this thread, you have said: muriel_volestrangler Aug 1 #32
SInce you mentioned "Gilgamesh", I'll leave you this historical tidbit: Gilgamesh gave birth to Hamas. RedWhiteBlueIsRacist Jul 30 #21
Well said! nt intrepidity Jul 31 #26
It is manipulated thru time to say what one wants republianmushroom Aug 2 #34
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