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markpkessinger

(8,841 posts)

65. Some key points you are failing to consider . . .

Thu Jul 31, 2025, 06:46 PM

Jul 31

1. No one here is defending what Hamas did on Oct. 7, 2023. It was a heinous act, and Israel had every right to respond.

2. But Hamas is a terrorist organization, whereas Israel is a state (and a signatory to the Geneva conventions besides). We hold states to higher standards than those we hold for terrorist organizations.

3. Our tax dollars don't go towards the support of Hamas; they do go towards the support of Israel.

4,. While Israel was certainly entitled to respond, there are limits to how far a country can go within the bounds of international law and fundamental morality. Approximately 1,200 Israelis were killed on October 7. As of 30 July 2025, at least 60,785 Palestinians have been killed. So the question becomes: how many Palestinians must die to avenge 1200 Israeli lives? How many Palestinian children must starve to death? The use of deliberate starvation of civilian populations is a war crime, full stop. Even if the perpetrator was not the initial aggressor.

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vanessa_ca Incanus

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There has never been a plausible case of Israeli genocide. [View all] OilemFirchen Jul 21 OP

The Order was made by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in January 2024, sheshe2 Jul 21 #1

As I said, I've been staying away from the subject. OilemFirchen Jul 21 #8

I do understand your staying away from the subject, I do. sheshe2 Jul 22 #12

UKFLI Charitable Trust? Wow, YouTube is pushing the propaganda at you. muriel_volestrangler Jul 22 #29

Here is the YT video for your first link. UKFLI is a front for apartheid, occupation, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing. Celerity Jul 23 #48

BBC posted the clip on twitter shortly after the program aired, and it's still available on their website. lapucelle Jul 23 #50

That seems like a bit of a technical cop out EdmondDantes_ Jul 21 #2

From "Never Again" to writerJT Jul 21 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author iemanja Jul 22 #15

The ICJ is only one of many legitimate authorities on the subject of genocide. I have seen a number of very plausible Martin68 Jul 21 #3

Please link to them all so I can read those as well. sheshe2 Jul 21 #5

Try google, it worked for me krawhitham Jul 21 #10

I'm pressed for time and you could certainly google the topic yourself, but I'll provide a few reliable links Martin68 Jul 22 #23

None of those are authorities, let alone legal authorities like the ICJ. SunSeeker Jul 23 #46

You clearly do not understand the meaning of the word "authority," but this is the answer I expected. Very Martin68 Jul 23 #53

The issue is what consititutes genocide, which is a legal question, as it is a war crime. SunSeeker Jul 23 #56

No, genocide as a concept is not only a legal question. You have chosen to limit your consideration of the term to Martin68 Jul 24 #58

Legal definitions control this issue. Making definitions up renders words meaningless. SunSeeker Jul 24 #59

You're referring back to a decision a year and a half ago, which of course ignores everything highplainsdem Jul 21 #6

This Johnny2X2X Jul 21 #7

Ethnic cleansing is not the same as genocide. SunSeeker Jul 23 #47

There is no legal definition of ethnic cleansing. It is not recognized as an international crime. The only difference Martin68 Jul 23 #55

Do tell. OilemFirchen Jul 21 #9

In 2024 they called the genocide claims "plausible" iemanja Jul 22 #14

This is pure comedy gold. OilemFirchen Jul 22 #30

Weird take that you find arguing over the deaths of a lot of people hilarious EdmondDantes_ Jul 22 #34

And there it is. OilemFirchen Jul 22 #39

So no you can't explain what's funny about this EdmondDantes_ Jul 23 #52

Capable? Or, Incapable? vanlassie Jul 31 #69

That you consider any of this comedy iemanja Jul 22 #37

Post removed Post removed Jul 22 #41

And Israel is not Netanyahu... sheshe2 Jul 22 #16

Netanyahu was elected by the people of Israel to, among other things, run the military. While individual Israelis are Martin68 Jul 22 #25

I'm old enough to remember some being chided for using "Palestine" in lieu of "Hamas". OilemFirchen Jul 22 #31

Heady days, yes indeed. sheshe2 Jul 22 #35

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 21 #11

Then let Israel stand trial at the ICC iemanja Jul 22 #13

By your own words: sheshe2 Jul 22 #17

Mahalo, she, for pointing that out. Cha Jul 22 #18

Thank you, Cha. sheshe2 Jul 22 #19

I know how you feel.. Cha Jul 22 #21

That was a "that was then" then. 🤣 OilemFirchen Jul 22 #32

Rolling with the Punches.. mostly. Cha Jul 22 #33

Nobody is saying to put random citizens on trial. Cuthbert Allgood Jul 22 #24

The ICC tries individuals, not countries. lapucelle Jul 23 #49

Aloha, Oilem... TY for this Cha Jul 22 #20

There is a death camp being constructed in Rafah iemanja Jul 22 #22

😪 annalog Jul 22 #27

Thanks for the links. nt cliffside Jul 22 #45

Had seen a thread on Quora or Reddit of some Palestinian commander saying Rafah was used to keep Hamas away. Pompoy Jul 31 #60

That's not what the post is about iemanja Jul 31 #61

I didn't take Olmert seriously, a very old man with a political take. In other words, lying. Pompoy Jul 31 #63

Then read what Defense Minister Katz has to say about the camp iemanja Jul 31 #64

Rec. nt LexVegas Jul 22 #26

All the Palestinian corpses are just collateral damage and unfortunate mistakes of a "Just War". Ping Tung Jul 22 #28

The civilians are the targets iemanja Jul 22 #38

I find it obscene that there are those that defend the murders, starvation, injuries, on innocent people. Ping Tung Jul 22 #40

Israel has lost the PR war. Everything is forever changed. Duncan Grant Jul 22 #36

Well said. H2O Man Jul 22 #42

Man, I'd hate to be an Israeli. OilemFirchen Jul 22 #43

No one is falling for this manipulative and ineffective rhetoric. Duncan Grant Jul 22 #44

I disagree ILikePie92 Jul 23 #51

I'm not sure if its genocide or not. Samael13 Jul 23 #54

Wait a minute, wait a minute Mossfern Jul 31 #62

Some key points you are failing to consider . . . markpkessinger Jul 31 #65

Point #4 - according to Sinwar Mossfern Jul 31 #66

And i whole-heartedly supported them responding Samael13 Jul 31 #67

I didn't think Israel's response Mossfern Jul 31 #68

This is a creepy thread n/t leftstreet Jul 23 #57