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GreatGazoo

(4,173 posts)
31. "It's very very convincing to me that his skull isn't at Holy Trinity at all." - Colls
Fri Aug 1, 2025, 05:05 PM
Aug 1

Thanks for your feedback and challenges. They will help me write in a way that is less prone to misinterpretations.

The Shakespeare myth is very emotional and political. Colls is certainly a scientist but he is not immune to the kind of blowback that comes when science contradicts a national myth and when it diminishes the revenue of the biggest tourist draw in rural England.

The best science is peer reviewed and debated so while it would have better to look at how other scientists reacted to Colls work I stayed with Colls because 1) you suggested that, and 2) Colls admits enough. When I say Colls was being coy in his final report I am referring to how he buried the headline that Reuters and those outside the Stratford tourist business went with:

"Radar scan of Shakespeare's grave confirms skull apparently missing"

https://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle/radar-scan-of-shakespeares-grave-confirms-skull-apparently-missing-idUSKCN0WQ1G5/

The Shakespeare myth starts mostly in 1769, the 205th anniversary of the birth of William Shakspere. It provides a fascinating look at how myth is created, defended and monetized. Way too much to detail here but the part relevant here is that the myth said William Shakespeare is/was buried beneath an uncarved 3-foot stone on the floor of Trinity Church with no name, no date, no "We are such stuff as dreams are made on and our little lives are rounded with a sleep" Shakespeare quote. It has always been de facto absurd, like almost every other part of the myth, yet it endures.

Many lawyers study Shakespeare as undergrads and nearly all of them balk at the myth. Meanwhile until very recently it was absolutely forbidden to question it with English Literature departments. That is why I love it as an example of what happens when science and literature collide.

Some lawyers become obsessed with the issue. Disproving the myth is fairly easy. Replacing it with truth or warranted uncertainty is far more difficult. This lawyer tries to do both in 45 minutes:



But the lesson here for me is that my OP was not a narrow enough slice of this 'science rewrites history' dynamic to avoid distractions and misunderstanding. The Shakespeare myth is a quagmire which few have the patience to wade through. Colombus is more bite-sized (although not without its own tangents).

Thanks again for your well considered posts and pushback!

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The "winners" write it. H2O Man Jul 30 #1
This NewHendoLib Jul 30 #2
That, and the fact that most people don't give a damn thucythucy Jul 30 #4
"How much do we devote, yearly, to the preservation..."? Billions of $$$ GreatGazoo Jul 30 #7
I specifically tried to exclude tourism and tourist attractions, thucythucy Jul 30 #15
I hear you on NFL expenses vs history preservation GreatGazoo Jul 30 #17
I agree that the study of history has and is making great strides. thucythucy Aug 2 #33
Americans are more interested in science fiction than history. thought crime Jul 30 #18
That simple malaise Jul 30 #8
Not always TnDem Jul 30 #12
But which "holy" texts were chosen to be included in the Bible, Aristus Jul 30 #16
The Bible isn't history. thought crime Jul 30 #19
"Nobody reads anymore." Kid Berwyn Jul 31 #27
;--{) Goonch Jul 31 #28
Countering Criticism of the Warren Report (CIA, PDF) Kid Berwyn Jul 31 #29
There are no facts. Only interpretations. Friedrich Nietzsche Ping Tung Jul 30 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author thought crime Jul 30 #20
To a certain degree it can only be an art ITAL Jul 30 #5
"Why it happened" is much more debatable than 'What happened' GreatGazoo Jul 30 #6
Nice OP malaise Jul 30 #9
Ironically, your version of the scan of Shakespeare's grave is completely wrong muriel_volestrangler Jul 30 #10
GPR shows no skull, no casket or coffin, not even nails from a rotted coffin. GreatGazoo Jul 30 #11
The irony of your attempt to spin this against the reality is quite hilarious muriel_volestrangler Jul 30 #13
I cited the Shakespeare myth specifically for the dynamic you are helping to illustrate GreatGazoo Jul 30 #14
Sure, go on denying what the people who did the scan said, if it makes you feel OK muriel_volestrangler Jul 31 #22
Kevin Colls says there is no skull under that stone and no coffin GreatGazoo Jul 31 #23
So we've gone from "Shakespeare isn't buried there. It's empty" to 5, including him, buried in shallow graves in shrouds muriel_volestrangler Jul 31 #24
According to Colls and science, Is Shakespeare's skull in that infant-sized "grave"? Yes or No GreatGazoo Jul 31 #25
They don't know if the skull is in there or not, but the grave is not "infant-sized" muriel_volestrangler Jul 31 #30
"It's very very convincing to me that his skull isn't at Holy Trinity at all." - Colls GreatGazoo Aug 1 #31
In your arguments in this thread, you have said: muriel_volestrangler Aug 1 #32
SInce you mentioned "Gilgamesh", I'll leave you this historical tidbit: Gilgamesh gave birth to Hamas. RedWhiteBlueIsRacist Jul 30 #21
Well said! nt intrepidity Jul 31 #26
It is manipulated thru time to say what one wants republianmushroom Aug 2 #34
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