General Discussion

Martin Eden

(15,197 posts)

168. There is no logic whatsoever in your post

Tue Nov 11, 2025, 06:30 PM

Nov 11

Whether or not the shutdown could succeed in getting Republicans to restore ACA subsidies is PRECISELY the question that needs to be asked to understand what happened and why.

We both agree there was no way Republicans would do that.

So, PLEASE EXPLAIN to me how the Democratic leadership "crapped all over the base" in this matter.

In other words, WHAT, exactly, SHOULD THEY HAVE DONE?

Should they have rubber-stamped the Republican CR at the end of September?

If not that, should they let the shutdown keep going to the end of this year and beyond?

If not that, then what?

If winning the 2026 midterms IS NOT the highest priority, then what is? Remember, there was zero chance of making Republicans pass any legislation that Democrats (including the base) want.

Also, please remember all the prolonged pain to people (including the Democratic base) and damage to our government that would be inflicted by Project 2025 if the shutdown kept going on indefinitely.

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Highlight:

Let's Not Have a Three-Ring, Concentric Democratic Firing Squad, OK? [View all] MineralMan Nov 10 OP

No, not OK. NoRethugFriends Nov 10 #1

Agree republianmushroom Nov 10 #60

Amen thomhartmann Nov 10 #88

but have you noticed the only cries of betrayal are coming agingdem Nov 10 #98

You need to get out more -eom vanessa_ca Nov 10 #110

I'm 77 and a life-long Democrat.. agingdem Nov 10 #129

I am not demeaning you. I'm pushing back against your statement. "I don't hear average citizens shouting "traitors"." vanessa_ca Nov 10 #146

I'm average as they come. It's a betrayal. airmid Nov 10 #144

If we were never goin to get maga to move on healthcare choie Nov 11 #176

I do. My entire family and their young friends are devestated Demsrule86 Nov 11 #183

Let me tell you a story.. agingdem Wednesday #188

I heard this morning no snap. We literally got nothing Demsrule86 Wednesday #189

All any of us can do it complain and be frustrated Bettie Nov 10 #2

We can support and communicate our frustration orangecrush Nov 10 #69

Sadly, I have no Democratic Bettie Nov 10 #78

I disagree Bettie. We do have power. It's in the streets and at the ballot box vanessa_ca Nov 10 #112

The elections seem really far away Bettie Nov 10 #118

You got it! vanessa_ca Nov 10 #120

Iowa has a long hard road Bettie Nov 10 #124

We'll get there. Keep the faith! vanessa_ca Nov 10 #131

Trump & Co want us to feel hopeless and defeated. thought crime Nov 10 #126

They may want that Bettie Nov 10 #128

Lawrence Lessig pointed out years ago... returnee Nov 10 #135

Not true. Join Indivisable and lets have primaries, but in the end Demsrule86 Nov 11 #184

Losing the ACA subsidies is not a disagreement. This will harm a lot of people. Autumn Nov 10 #3

What's Your Plan for Saving Them? MineralMan Nov 10 #5

It's not my fucking job to come up with a plan to save it. That's what I fucking vote for I'm an Autumn Nov 10 #9

Well! OK, Then. MineralMan Nov 10 #20

You don't understand healthcare for all. gab13by13 Nov 10 #37

Bernie wants one thing. I want Socialized Universal Healthcare. MineralMan Nov 10 #43

If that's what you really want, stop defending the corporate sell-outs. nt TBF Nov 10 #74

Right now, there is no possible path to Socialized Universal Healthcare MineralMan Nov 10 #80

Hey, hang in there man! Plan to keep seeing your doctor once a year for 20 more years. thought crime Nov 10 #119

You're preaching from a position of privilege - healthy boomer on Medicare luxmatic Nov 10 #122

I'm afraid I come as I am. MineralMan Nov 10 #127

Wouldn't it be great if that legislaton was brought in front of the american public choie Nov 11 #179

Well, at least you said "Maybe never", not "Never ever". I guess that's progress? thought crime Nov 10 #117

Okay but let's not call it that because it's a freaking stupid name (politically-speaking) AZJonnie Nov 10 #137

Why are there not enough votes? AZProgressive Nov 10 #147

Probably because we don't have uniform health care here. MineralMan Nov 11 #157

It sure would be nice for the Dems to actually put forth meaningful legislation choie Nov 11 #177

Maybe they will when there is MineralMan Nov 11 #178

It says a lot.... TheRealNorth Nov 10 #38

Holding out longer wouldn't make their renewal more likely. tritsofme Nov 10 #7

Neither will giving in. But go for it. Lets see the choice is starve Americans or kill Autumn Nov 10 #13

This deal stops the risk of SNAP disruption and is the only path toward a vote on subsidies. tritsofme Nov 10 #15

Never enough votes amirite? Story of the moderates. Autumn Nov 10 #18

If Republicans are determined to strip away these subsidies, keeping the government shutdown a few more weeks tritsofme Nov 10 #22

Those "protections" are legal requirements. They were wrongly delayed Arazi Nov 10 #57

Does that mean the democrats . . . people Nov 10 #130

I would have supported ending the shutdown after a week or so. tritsofme Nov 10 #132

I guarantee you a few more days of air traffic disruption would have ended this Arazi Nov 10 #19

Yep. And I am already seeing online comments from furloughed fed workers who are pissed the 8 caved Attilatheblond Nov 10 #54

Some major unions representing federal workers recently started supporting an end to the shutdown. tritsofme Nov 10 #116

Hear, hear! As soon as the fat kaks are inconvenienced it's over Ponietz Nov 10 #105

LOL sure durablend Nov 10 #71

The case becomes moot when the government turns back on. tritsofme Nov 10 #75

"A path toward ACA subsidy renewal".... Bettie Nov 10 #123

I fear GOP won't own this crimycarny Nov 10 #100

The public was blaming Rs. The pressure was on them. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 11 #175

We can't stand together against tyranny when people we count on keep sitting down. Gore1FL Nov 10 #4

100,000 TIMES - THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS Maru Kitteh Nov 10 #49

Democrats ? ? republianmushroom Nov 10 #65

The pattern Cirsium Nov 10 #91

I would like to quote your post word for word. It speaks for me. Maru Kitteh Nov 10 #104

Thanks Cirsium Nov 10 #121

Schumer knew all along "We kept Senator Schumer informed throughout" vanessa_ca Nov 10 #115

You may be right that they worked out who could get away with voting for this. people Nov 10 #125

Standard operating procedure Cirsium Nov 10 #133

"supporting Republicans" ... ??? Martin Eden Nov 11 #150

Those are the talking points Cirsium Nov 11 #158

Those are facts. Martin Eden Nov 11 #160

There it is Cirsium Nov 11 #162

I noticed you didn't answer any of my questions Martin Eden Nov 11 #163

Yes Cirsium Nov 11 #164

It's a straightforward question that goes straight to the point of the shutdown Martin Eden Nov 11 #165

A straightforward question? Cirsium Nov 11 #167

There is no logic whatsoever in your post Martin Eden Nov 11 #168

ffs Cirsium Nov 11 #169

Nobody forgot that......... Martin Eden Nov 11 #170

Sure Cirsium Nov 11 #171

I'll take that to mean you think they should have kept the filibuster going indefinitely Martin Eden Nov 11 #172

Why? Cirsium Nov 11 #173

ffs Martin Eden Nov 11 #174

I just listened to the videos Cirsium Nov 11 #180

Then you should be able to summarize what they said in those videos Martin Eden Nov 11 #186

Sure Cirsium Thursday #191

I hear what you're saying, MarineCombatEngineer Nov 10 #6

Yes. Electing Democrats is the path we need to take. MineralMan Nov 10 #21

Electing ... Progressive... Democrats is the path we need to take. luv2fly Nov 10 #29

I vote to elect one House members and two Senators. MineralMan Nov 10 #30

I don't disagree with you fundamentally luv2fly Nov 10 #35

Exactly right. FoxNewsSucks Nov 10 #70

You know, it is interesting that "vote blue no matter who" OrwellwasRight Nov 10 #113

That is not true. We elect based on the state. This isn't right or left. Demsrule86 Nov 11 #185

Can we even disagree on policy among ourselves without personal insults? Walleye Nov 10 #8

I reread my OP. Who did I insult, personally? MineralMan Nov 10 #25

Not you, just a general tone of the response to this Walleye Nov 10 #26

Not me? Then who were you directing that towards? MineralMan Nov 10 #27

I'm sorry that's the way you took it. I really didn't mean it that way. Walleye Nov 10 #28

So what is your opinion of these Mikie Sherrill quotes? gab13by13 Nov 10 #42

7 Dems. 1 Ind. niyad Nov 10 #99

F#*king dems caved. pamdb Nov 10 #10

and for a few days I actually thought we had a chance for a bluewave midterm, I'm back to reality now. nt yaesu Nov 10 #34

I am right there with you... berksdem Nov 10 #66

Agreed StarryNite Nov 10 #89

+ 1000 hamsterjill Nov 10 #140

Exactly! StarryNite Nov 10 #142

I will be back, n/t rzemanfl Nov 10 #109

Tell that to the "moderates." luv2fly Nov 10 #11

And look at who they aimed it at. We need new leadership. Autumn Nov 10 #16

And then they shot everybody relying on the ACA in the back. Efilroft Sul Nov 10 #17

I'm telling it to everyone. MineralMan Nov 10 #23

Not according to Mikie Sherrill, she is a fighter, gab13by13 Nov 10 #44

The elected Dems do the circular firing squad themselves awesomerwb1 Nov 10 #12

"Holding out longer wouldn't make their renewal more likely." J_William_Ryan Nov 10 #14

You are wrong. They must know how much we want them to fight boston bean Nov 10 #24

Well, umm, when millions of Americans lose their healthcare next year I'm sure they will be very forgiving yaesu Nov 10 #31

If we were all United against tyranny some Dems wouldn't consistently be giving Trump what he wants v Nanjeanne Nov 10 #32

We were always up against the reality that Trump and the GOP truly don't care Ocelot II Nov 10 #33

Please stop with being complicit. hamsterjill Nov 10 #36

Hear, hear Cirsium Nov 10 #72

Thank you. Scrivener7 Nov 11 #181

No need for straw men. This "deal" is bullshit. Jbraybarten Nov 10 #39

Maybe The Defectors Should Be Lectured Instead? And Then.... ColoringFool Nov 10 #40

Tread lightly, ForgedCrank Nov 10 #41

"There must be a good reason, but they haven't told us" is a poor reason to trust the eight muriel_volestrangler Nov 10 #45

Yes, ForgedCrank Nov 10 #47

If you think that giving in on the ACA subsidies won't compromise the mid terms you and Autumn Nov 10 #46

I won't ForgedCrank Nov 10 #50

This Merrick Garland redux Arazi Nov 10 #58

If a choice is impossible to live with it should not be voted on by anyone with a conscience. Autumn Nov 10 #59

Ok, let's ForgedCrank Nov 10 #67

None of that. Moderate Dems live their lives by compromise. All while ignoring the fact Autumn Nov 10 #102

I agree with some of what you're saying SARose Nov 10 #56

Fat kaks inconvenienced by air restrictions Ponietz Nov 10 #111

When the enhanced ACA subsidies were added to the American Rescue Plan in 2021, they were always temporary MichMan Nov 10 #48

For the average person, nothing is real until it actually happens to them. MineralMan Nov 10 #51

You make a lot of sense! Felicita Nov 10 #81

Thank you. I try, and base my ideas on history. MineralMan Nov 10 #83

D'accord! Mme. Defarge Nov 10 #52

Merci! MineralMan Nov 10 #53

Let's stop rescuing republicans from their own messes C_U_L8R Nov 10 #55

Let's stop rescuing republicans from their own messes +💯 -nt CrispyQ Nov 10 #76

I've yet to see a list of what we got that wasn't there before, CrispyQ Nov 10 #61

I appreciate your voice of reason Keepthesoulalive Nov 10 #62

"Our party is not homogeneous" BannonsLiver Nov 10 #63

I would also point out that Bettie Nov 10 #64

Yes and the people with large sums of money to donate questionseverything Nov 10 #134

Indeed.... Bettie Nov 10 #136

OK but lets be laser focused on the 50 State Strategy IbogaProject Nov 10 #67

Here we go again. UNREC. nt TBF Nov 10 #73

Well, not "OK" exactly, but what other choice do we have? Jersey Devil Nov 10 #77

Yes, exactly. MineralMan Nov 10 #82

Get wrecked on your copium. We lost. Everything. So please don't try to excuse it. Mr.WeRP Nov 10 #79

One battle is not the war. MineralMan Nov 10 #85

I prefer the firing squad over the unconditional surrender perpetrated by this Gang of 8. LonePirate Nov 10 #84

Do you? Well, get in one of the circles then. MineralMan Nov 10 #86

I was wondering orangecrush Nov 10 #87

Thus, spake the ever-moderating voice from above. n/t xocetaceans Nov 10 #90

I'm not a moderator of anything. Nor do I wish to be. MineralMan Nov 10 #92

Rather, you post chiding maxims. And seem to have missed the point of the post--purposefully, I imagine. But you do you. xocetaceans Nov 10 #95

I post what I post and then read the responses. MineralMan Nov 10 #97

Right now I'm thinking JustAnotherGen Nov 10 #93

What a glib "let them eat cake" response. Spoken like someone pinkstarburst Nov 10 #94

This is correct radicalleft Nov 10 #107

Really tired of that phrase LPBBEAR Nov 10 #96

The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants. Albert Camus Ping Tung Nov 10 #101

The Plague - Camus died age 46. twodogsbarking Nov 10 #103

PLEASE!!! LymphocyteLover Nov 10 #106

MM I respect the heck out of you angrychair Nov 10 #108

Well, we will find out if there's a price for them to pay. MineralMan Nov 10 #114

You can say that here SamuelTheThird Nov 10 #138

This was a betrayal. MontanaMama Nov 10 #139

I can't get that song from "Candide" out of my head. "What a day, what a day, for an auto-da-fe." betsuni Nov 10 #141

It wouldn't be DU without one.... GoCubsGo Nov 10 #143

Too late ‼️‼️ flying-skeleton Nov 10 #145

The voice of one crying in the wilderness. TomSlick Nov 10 #148

Once I recover from getting stabbed in the back Hassler Nov 10 #149

Nope, they got to go ebbie15644 Nov 11 #151

You need to direct this message to the 7 or 8 who defected to tyrrany. n/t Ms. Toad Nov 11 #152

That's the last thing I want, but what was accomplished? ecstatic Nov 11 #153

If you couldn't put food on your table or pay your rent, how long would you be willing to wait? onenote Nov 11 #155

We hate that repubs are so great at spin. We also should hate that we're so bad at it. onenote Nov 11 #154

Excellent analysis... Many thanks! 👍 QueerDuck Nov 11 #166

We always eat our own, then whine about losing krawhitham Nov 11 #156

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 11 #159

No, we were not. MineralMan Nov 11 #161

MM I respect you. But we have leaders who won't stand with us and fight with Demsrule86 Nov 11 #182

I do have to admit that there seems to be some tension out there. I would think that that's allowed, after all, that's SWBTATTReg Wednesday #187

OK. But tell the "moderate" pols to cease fire first. Ping Tung Thursday #190