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thucythucy

(8,975 posts)
117. Hi NNadir, I'm always glad to see you here.
Tue Aug 5, 2025, 12:09 PM
Aug 5

I've been meaning for a while now to ask your thoughts on something, and figure now is as good a time as any.

What I'm about to describe is my principle worry about building lots of nuclear reactors here on earth.

I think that many of the technical issues that folks raise in opposition, for instance the issue of spent fuel and other waste have--at least on paper--technical solutions available to us today. There are problems of course, but we have the technology in place to deal with these issues, providing the funding and politcal will is there as needed.

It's the political/social/human issues, the ones I'm about to describe, that worry me, and which seem to me less amenable to solution.

I'm thinking, for instance, of what's happening now in Ukraine. We had Russian troops digging trenches inside the Chernobyl exclusion zone, thus re-exposing dangerous materials. But even worse, in terms of potential danger, has been the threat to the Zaporizhzhia Power Station, the largest in Europe and one of the 10 largest plants in the world. For a while the plant was caught between warring armies, and as I recall there were concerns that a stray shell or drone might hit the plant, either by accident or deliberately. And it wasn't even necessary for such a strike to put the plant and the region around it at risk, since there was a period when the plant was understaffed--perhaps dangerously so--because many workers didn't relish the idea of commuting through a war zone to get to work. At least this was how this was described in the press.

And the idea of a deliberate attack on a power station isn't all that far fetched. Evidently the Russians fired a drone at the containment arch that now covers Chernobyl, punching a good size and thus compromising the air pressure system that keeps air from escaping in the event of a wider breach or accident of some kind.



You might say that we can try to build reactors only in regions of relative political and social stability. But how can we guarantee such stability for the time frames this would entail--decades or more, probably far more? Back in the 1970s and '80s, when these power stations were built, most everyone assumed the USSR was among the most stable regimes on the planet. And yet here we are.

I can't think of a single region on earth that has been politically and socially stable for the length of time needed here, aside from Antarctica.

Granted, any major piece of infrastructure is vulnerable to the ravages of war. Films of post-war Europe certainly bring that point home. But the effects of a nuclear plant being bombed or rocketed are so severe that even a single instance would be catastrophic. The only other example I can think of that would be at all comparable to blasting a nuclear plant would be smashing a major dam. The British did this to the Ruhr dams during WWII, which caused major flooding and killed perhaps thousands of people. But disastrous as that was, the cleanup was a fairly straight-forward affair, and those regions that were flooded now appear to be entirely unscathed. I don't know if that would be at all the case in the event of a similar attack upon even a smaller nuclear power plant.

I wonder: what are your thoughts on this? A while back you posted about proposals to build plants across Africa, which raised this issue for me, but even before that I'd been mulling this over as a concern.

Are my worries about this unfounded? Is there a way to construct plants so that they would be invulnerable to any surrounding upheaval--civil war or war between nations such as between Iran and Iraq, intense civil unrest such as we've seen in recent decades in Yugoslavia or Rwanda? And even if the physical plant could be made secure in all circumstances, how do we ensure safe levels of staffing for the life of any plant, so we don't see problems such as what we've seen in Ukraine?

A long winded post, I know. But for me this is the one huge stumbling block I see to building the number of facilities needed to replace carbon based forms of energy. All the other issues, like I said, seem solvable, at least on a technical level. But humanity is so unstable, human beings so often destructive, and the potential for even one major plant to cause widespread and long lasting damage should it fall victim to that sort of human depravity, I have difficulty seeing how we can guarantee with any degree of certainty that such an event could never happen.

Is this something that has been considered by engineers such as yourself? Are there any fixes for this that you know of?

Thanks for reading through all this. I'm very much looking forward to your reply and the possibility that my worries in this regard might be put to rest.

Best wishes--

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Somebody didn't see Space 1999. Intractable Aug 4 #1
I love that series! markodochartaigh Aug 4 #7
With Space 1999, there's much to "whine" about while eating the cheese. Intractable Aug 4 #15
Cool show! Brings back good memories. :) Dave Bowman Aug 4 #9
I came here to post this very item IbogaProject Aug 4 #12
First thing I thought of Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 5 #89
OMFG montanacowboy Aug 4 #2
I can't even understand why this would be a goal of anyone genxlib Aug 4 #3
Oddly enough, this could actually be one of the rare "good ideas" pursued by the F47 regime 0rganism Aug 4 #19
instead of the man in the moon ... DBoon Aug 4 #32
Truly awful, yes, but still preferable to trying to establish a half-assed Mars colony without running a moon base first 0rganism Aug 4 #41
Um lonely bird Aug 4 #42
The scary thing is, I think THEY think they are MadameButterfly Aug 5 #78
Or a penal colony on. the moon? flamingdem Aug 4 #68
If it's too small to be seen with the naked eye, it'll be called a "micro"-penal colony 0rganism Aug 5 #76
That would be micro-penile RainCaster Aug 5 #80
With cooling towers and massive amounts of water? Martin Eden Aug 5 #95
They would need alternative cooling strategies, as dark-side temps run around -130'C and sunlit-side +120'C 0rganism Aug 5 #123
It's a huge investment, so careful planning & purpose are essential Martin Eden Aug 5 #124
"What possible use would energy on the moon be" PSPS Aug 4 #24
Such devices would be there to power a future base, refining local resources, research, etc. Gore1FL Aug 4 #56
Maybe a really, really long extension cord Seinan Sensei Aug 5 #73
It could power Trump's ego DBoon Aug 5 #103
advertising billboard lapfog_1 Aug 4 #38
Just another distraction from Epstein. MacKasey Aug 4 #4
🥱😴 ... & ... 😜🤣😂🤣😜🤣😂🤣😜😜 Oopsie Daisy Aug 4 #5
Yes BigMin28 Aug 4 #6
What's the point? How stupid. Srkdqltr Aug 4 #8
I'm all for space exploration but this is dumb. Dave Bowman Aug 4 #10
Well okay BumRushDaShow Aug 4 #11
Here's an idea, Duffy - put pressure on Musk to sort out his "Spaceship" vehicle muriel_volestrangler Aug 4 #13
I'm more in favor of a safe airline industry and FAA safety. Norrrm Aug 4 #14
Planning for a reactor on the moon dates back at least to the Obama administration onenote Aug 4 #16
fuel Nasruddin Aug 4 #17
I'm shocked that the source isn't the Onion. greatauntoftriplets Aug 4 #18
Or the Simpsons GreenWave Aug 4 #27
I kept looking for Onion or Borrowitz MadameButterfly Aug 5 #81
Maybe we should fix our planet first. chowder66 Aug 4 #20
Bah, no profit or glamour in that! OldBaldy1701E Aug 5 #96
Um, why? Mz Pip Aug 4 #21
It's the planned... littlemissmartypants Aug 4 #54
To make RICH men RICHER with ZERO results Bengus81 Aug 5 #94
...But we can't have universal health care. I can't wrap my fucking head around this idiocy. Karasu Aug 4 #22
And you left out 900 million to refurb the Qatari luxury jetliner. yellow dahlia Aug 4 #34
Oh, geez. There's obviously plenty I left out, or I'd be here all day, but I really don't know how I missed THAT one. Karasu Aug 4 #39
I'm shocked nobody has floated the idea on how to project the AT&T or Amazon logo on the moon surface... EarthFirst Aug 4 #23
Why not Windmills? thought crime Aug 4 #25
Such an evil thing to say... hunter Aug 4 #63
Duffy is an idiot! BidenRocks Aug 4 #26
Not duffeys's plan RoseTrellis Aug 5 #99
No money for healthcare, education, science, social security, medicare. Irish_Dem Aug 4 #28
What could go wrong? yellow dahlia Aug 4 #31
Right, what happens if the idiots blow up the moon? Irish_Dem Aug 4 #33
That's what I said - Moon? Who needs a moon? yellow dahlia Aug 4 #37
What could go wrong with one of Musk's rockets carrying nukes. Irish_Dem Aug 4 #40
I had to look twice to make sure it wasn't The Onion DBoon Aug 4 #29
Me too! WestMichRad Aug 4 #48
I just turned to Mr. Dahlia and said: What's wrong with these people? yellow dahlia Aug 4 #30
The project is set to start in two weeks. sop Aug 4 #35
You have got to be fucking kidding me. Karasu Aug 4 #66
Yes, I am kidding. sop Aug 4 #67
I can't believe I didn't pick up on that! LOL!!! Karasu Aug 5 #74
shithole and comrades cut NASA monies and staff and are pissed off at musk................... Lovie777 Aug 4 #36
Trump needs to . . . AverageOldGuy Aug 4 #43
How much fissionable material would be needed. The Madcap Aug 4 #44
That was my first thought as well. thucythucy Aug 5 #105
At least it would be taking off from TX or FL. The Madcap Aug 5 #113
Why would put a reactor on the most Aviation Pro Aug 4 #45
It required lots of power to extract Helium 3 Abnredleg Aug 5 #110
Shot over Aviation Pro Aug 5 #114
Shot out!! Abnredleg Aug 5 #115
SQUIRREL!!! maspaha Aug 4 #46
So let me see if I understand angrychair Aug 4 #47
Your assessment is exactly correct. llmart Aug 4 #60
I can understand how a moon reactor can produce heat.... reACTIONary Aug 4 #49
NNadir is really our DU expert in this area. ... littlemissmartypants Aug 4 #57
I don't think a steam turbine would be a problem in principle muriel_volestrangler Aug 5 #85
You may be right. I sort of dismissed the idea without much thought. reACTIONary Aug 5 #121
Um ok, why not solar? BWdem4life Aug 4 #50
I had the same question C_U_L8R Aug 4 #51
There are a lot of impact sites ... littlemissmartypants Aug 4 #58
Night time on the moon lasts about 14 days. hunter Aug 4 #64
Thanks. I knew it got dark, but I don't know for how long. reACTIONary Aug 4 #70
Solar is defiantly in the plan - plus there is a nation state issue... reACTIONary Aug 4 #69
declare away. put a reactor on the moon and MadameButterfly Aug 5 #83
It does seem that an "exclusion zone" would be hard to enforce.... reACTIONary Aug 5 #120
a nuclear reactor on the moon MadameButterfly Aug 6 #128
A moon nuke... reACTIONary Aug 6 #129
You think they could monitor a reactor on the moon MadameButterfly Aug 7 #130
Yep... They sure can! reACTIONary Aug 7 #131
Sorry if I'm missing the point MadameButterfly Aug 8 #133
You asked if I think.... reACTIONary Aug 8 #134
too woke. But yeah, duh MadameButterfly Aug 5 #82
I thought reactors require cooling water The Blue Flower Aug 4 #52
Air cooled reactors have been around since the 1960's Abnredleg Aug 5 #111
"Air cooling" is not exactly a lunar option, with no air muriel_volestrangler Aug 5 #119
It was great for mankind to go to the moon 56 years ago. Jacson6 Aug 4 #53
Elon... littlemissmartypants Aug 4 #59
If he wants to privately fund it then he can do it. No since wasting tax payers money to go to bunch of rocks. n/t Jacson6 Aug 5 #102
(!) Marcuse Aug 4 #55
Well, if we cancel the multi-trillion dollar tax cut for billionaires, that *might* pay for it... Jack Valentino Aug 4 #61
Translation: We intend to drain a lot of money into our pockets, but good luck mahina Aug 4 #62
I don't see anything wrong with the basic premise. hunter Aug 4 #65
Yes. Location, Location, Location. reACTIONary Aug 4 #71
Who VOTED for that? nt SouthBayDem Aug 4 #72
There's very little gravity on the moon , right? Figarosmom Aug 5 #75
Just send the building materials to the moon on trucks. Botany Aug 5 #97
This plus a dome covering the entire country? IcyPeas Aug 5 #77
This is not simple. And it is terrifying. colorado_ufo Aug 5 #79
Old project initiated in November, 2021. RoseTrellis Aug 5 #84
Actually a continuation of efforts that began in 2015 onenote Aug 5 #88
Wow RoseTrellis Aug 5 #91
A bad idea is a bad idea thucythucy Aug 5 #112
We aren't even a year in JustAnotherGen Aug 5 #86
There is probably no one on this board as pronuclear energy as I am. This said... NNadir Aug 5 #87
Hi NNadir, I'm always glad to see you here. thucythucy Aug 5 #117
The MF wanted to blow the moon up. I remember. Here we go. twodogsbarking Aug 5 #90
Gonna need a real long extension cord Conjuay Aug 5 #92
Maybe build the Ballroom 3825-87867 Aug 5 #93
Let's see. hazard pay and shipping and logicstics, OK 40 trillion sir, please click here to finalize your order. Brainfodder Aug 5 #98
Please, lets get him a one way ticket. milestogo Aug 5 #100
Kick. I duped you. underpants Aug 5 #101
Gil Scott Heron anticipated this long ago DBoon Aug 5 #104
How about announcing improvements to the Air Traffic Control system. Sneederbunk Aug 5 #106
Republican announces daycare center on Mars. ananda Aug 5 #107
Just sayin' Docreed2003 Aug 5 #108
This is part of Project Artemis Abnredleg Aug 5 #109
Long term it's a good idea NickB79 Aug 5 #116
I have the most idiotic, stupid, brain-dead government in history. Torchlight Aug 5 #118
Duffy has entered the "How stupid can you get?" contest Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 5 #122
Even if this were feasible mysuzuki2 Aug 5 #125
That ought to lower grocery prices and utility bills for Americans dalton99a Aug 5 #126
That's one of the most idiotic ideas I've heard in a long time. What are you going to use to cool the reactor? patphil Aug 5 #127
Surely Duffy is afraid of the moon if he is afraid of riding the subway. travelingthrulife Aug 7 #132
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