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In reply to the discussion: Private payrolls declined in September by 32,000 in key ADP report coming amid shutdown data blackout [View all]Wiz Imp
(7,587 posts)21. {Sigh} 🙄🥱Ridiculous
I haven't "attacked" anyone. I've told people who have insisted that the data is manipulated that it is not. Not a single person here has argued that the "data can't be trusted" for any reason other than they are manipulating the data. That is not happening. So you're just flat out wrong.
You're taking that Goshen quote completely out of context to twist what she really means. From back in August:
Erica Groshen, a former Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), stated in August 2025 that it would be impossible to manipulate the agency's data without detection. Meddling with how government statisticians calculate unemployment and labor market trends would require a whole new cadre of people to be brought in by a new commissioner. She noted that the agency's culture, process, and transparency would trigger whistleblowers and resignations if such an attempt were made.
Groshen explained that the BLS's monthly reporting process is highly structured, with tight deadlines and specific, known roles for staff. The commissioner does not have access to the systems or raw data before the final numbers are produced.
The BLS maintains an internal culture that values independence and data integrity. According to Groshen, any attempt by a commissioner to meddle with the data would "immediately get pushback, resignations, [and] whistleblowers".
Groshen explained that the BLS's monthly reporting process is highly structured, with tight deadlines and specific, known roles for staff. The commissioner does not have access to the systems or raw data before the final numbers are produced.
The BLS maintains an internal culture that values independence and data integrity. According to Groshen, any attempt by a commissioner to meddle with the data would "immediately get pushback, resignations, [and] whistleblowers".
and this
In a 2019 interview that was revisited in 2025, Groshen explained that if she had tried to manipulate data while commissioner, "the first people to turn me in would have been the employees of the BLS". She cited the security safeguards implemented since the Nixon administration, which protect the integrity and independence of data gathering, analysis, and reporting. Groshen noted that the process includes checks and rechecking, and the final data is not available to political appointees until release.
What she's saying is that if they tried to manipulate the data, it would create so much chaos it would cause a rash of whistle blowing that would guarantee they wouldn't get away with it and they'd basically make BLS worthless because the users of the data will know they can't trust their data for anything anymore. She's concerned about the complete destruction of BLS.
And from former commissioner William Beach:
Former BLS commissioner William Beach: In August 2025, during a controversy involving the firing of then-BLS commissioner Erika McEntarfer, Beach stated on NBC's Meet the Press that it was "not possible" for a commissioner to influence the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) labor data. He explained that the process is decentralized by design to avoid interference. A commissioner is not involved in the collection or estimation of the raw data and does not see the final numbers until they are ready for release.
The commissioner is deliberately isolated from the technical process of collecting and compiling data. Former BLS Commissioner William Beach recalled being locked out of a room where data was being prepared to protect the integrity of the process.
Any attempt to manipulate the data would trigger whistleblowers and mass resignations among career employees, who would view such interference as a direct attack on their professional integrity.
The commissioner is deliberately isolated from the technical process of collecting and compiling data. Former BLS Commissioner William Beach recalled being locked out of a room where data was being prepared to protect the integrity of the process.
Any attempt to manipulate the data would trigger whistleblowers and mass resignations among career employees, who would view such interference as a direct attack on their professional integrity.
It's laughable that you think that Trump making the data potentially less reliable in any way helps him. He wants data that shows a great economy. Lowering response rates is never going to achieve that.
Once again you are wrong about everything.
And no, I'm not on the same side as people like you who deny reality and believe data is being manipulated when it is not. I believe in reality. I'm done with this. Welcome to my ignore list.
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Private payrolls declined in September by 32,000 in key ADP report coming amid shutdown data blackout [View all]
BumRushDaShow
Wednesday
OP
A key MAGA report will have some cooked up numbers saying everything is awesome
IronLionZion
Wednesday
#1
Well, here's a former head of the BLS indicating Trump could impact upcoming reports, regardless of who's commissioner:
SunSeeker
Wednesday
#13
Nice try. But you failed big time. You'll find that I've never typed a single word in any post here
Wiz Imp
Wednesday
#15
"Ridiculous" is thinking we still live in a world where we don't have Trump slandering BLS staffers.
SunSeeker
Yesterday
#29
maga might easily ignore numbers, but corporations will not, and maga will notice layoffs around them
Bernardo de La Paz
Yesterday
#33
You failed at your implication of tRump interference. "unless" is a hypothetical, a possibility, nowhere near a fact.nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Wednesday
#22
Trump has interfered by slandering BLS statisticians. That is why Groshen is worried (her words).
SunSeeker
Yesterday
#28
We are all worried, but it is important to not cynically assume facts not in evidence. . . . nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Yesterday
#31
There's plenty of evidence of Trump defaming BLS staff and BLS survey responses dropping off.
SunSeeker
22 hrs ago
#36
Declines in survey responses have been happening slowly without tRump. There is no evidence he has accelerated it.
Bernardo de La Paz
21 hrs ago
#38
Groshen is not insulting BLS, nor am I. We are pointing out how Trump is harming BLS.
SunSeeker
20 hrs ago
#39
Your excerpt indicates NO problem from political influence and MAYBE survey lack of response maybe in the FUTURE. . . nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Wednesday
#20
Groshen is worried for a reason. I think she knows what she is talking about.
SunSeeker
Yesterday
#30
Exactly as I stated. She is worried about survey participation, NOT about fudging data or calculations.
Bernardo de La Paz
Yesterday
#32
You fail to understand Groshen's (and my) point. Participation drops hurt data accuracy.
SunSeeker
22 hrs ago
#35
Data inaccuracy due to survey response rates is NOT corruption, NOR is it interference, NOR is it the fault of BLS.
Bernardo de La Paz
22 hrs ago
#37
ADP reported a loss in the monthly jobs report only once in Joe Biden's 4 years (March 23).
Wiz Imp
Wednesday
#11
Delaying the release of the Jobs Report during a shutdown is standard operating procedure
Wiz Imp
Wednesday
#16
No report coming out of the government with trump's hand picked cronies can be trusted.
lostincalifornia
Wednesday
#18
There are ZERO hand-picked cronies at BLS. The single one and only political nominee has been withdrawn.
Bernardo de La Paz
Wednesday
#23
Excuse me Bernardo. He just fired the BLS Commissioner, Erika McEntarfer, because he didn't like
lostincalifornia
Wednesday
#24
It is a mistake to think that because one person was fired, suddenly all the unfired employees are corrupt
Bernardo de La Paz
Wednesday
#25
What, the Department of Justice is targeting the Presidents political enemies?
Buddyzbuddy
Wednesday
#19