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Economy

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phantom power

(25,966 posts)
Thu Dec 29, 2011, 08:47 PM Dec 2011

Debt Is (Mostly) Money We Owe to Ourselves [View all]

Below are two series, both expressed as percentages of GDP: total domestic nonfinancial debt (public plus private), and U.S. net foreign debt, as measured by the negative of the net international investment position:



What you can see here is that there has been a big rise in debt, with a much smaller move into net debtor status for America as a whole; for the most part, the extra debt is money we owe to ourselves.

And here are the same numbers, measured as changes from 1980, so that you can see that the great bulk of the rise in debt was not financed by foreign borrowing.



People think of debt’s role in the economy as if it were the same as what debt means for an individual: there’s a lot of money you have to pay to someone else. But that’s all wrong; the debt we create is basically money we owe to ourselves, and the burden it imposes does not involve a real transfer of resources.

That’s not to say that high debt can’t cause problems — it certainly can. But these are problems of distribution and incentives, not the burden of debt as is commonly understood. And as Dean says, talking about leaving a burden to our children is especially nonsensical; what we are leaving behind is promises that some of our children will pay money to other children, which is a very different kettle of fish.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/28/debt-is-mostly-money-we-owe-to-ourselves/
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Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #1
I own not one dime of government securities, which is how we finance the national debt. mbperrin Dec 2011 #2
Well, that's pretty much what I meant Tansy_Gold Dec 2011 #3
You've said it well, and flawlessly. mbperrin Dec 2011 #4
The Federal Government does not have to obtain money (American dollars) from any one. Sam1 Jan 2012 #6
Please cite the economist and formula that shows that government debt creates savings in the private mbperrin Jan 2012 #10
You have a degree in economics and have never heard (or studied) the chartalist perspective? jtuck004 Jan 2012 #18
I see now. It's the rather old fashioned notion that money is meant to be a store of value. mbperrin Jan 2012 #19
Yep, goods and services much more modern. Better go round up some goats jtuck004 Jan 2012 #20
Didn't read a word, did you? The money is a CLAIM for goods and services. mbperrin Jan 2012 #21
What really has value is human potential, not goods and services, and not jtuck004 Jan 2012 #22
I posted this in response to someone else. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #9
This is a little different because Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #12
Money from the Social Security Trust Fund which was created because JDPriestly Jan 2012 #14
Exactly. And furthermore, Tansy_Gold Jan 2012 #15
So, if you can afford it, invest for yourself also. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #16
If you have paid your payroll taxes -- your Social Security taxes -- your old-aged JDPriestly Jan 2012 #8
I pay the Teacher Retirement System of Texas. mbperrin Jan 2012 #11
Repudiate the national debt and let the chips fall where they may. Or Blue Hen Buckeye Jan 2012 #5
I wonder what portion of the debt is owed to the Social Security Trust Fund. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #7
About 27-30% from memory dmallind Jan 2012 #13
SSA Trust fund = $2.6 trillion - total debt now over $15 trillion banned from Kos Jan 2012 #17
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